Richard Dolan and the Roswell Slides

originally posted by: -Blackout-
a reply to: JimOberg

Did he actually "back them"? Or was he merely investigating them and trying to come to his own conclusion? Has Dolan actually came out and said that they were authentic? If so, care to provide any links and direct Dolan quotes where he says that these incidents were "real" ?

Regarding Dolan's attitude toward the two Gordon Cooper stories in The Day Before Disclosure, your caution is justified, at 1:13:30 he goes into a long riff about why NASA workers are immersed in a culture that would compel them to follow orders and conceal UFO secrets [an assessment I totally disagree with], which direct quotation segues into the two bogus stories themselves read by the narrator.

The only argument I could make that he approved the stories is that I never read of any statement from him objecting to the use of his comments to create viewer credibility for those stories -- but that is not an explicit endorsement and so I stand corrected. Thanks for demanding validation.


www.youtube.com...

a reply to: mirageman

Yet none of them have ever really got any further than we did back in the 1950s beyond collecting a bunch of interesting stories and some circumstantial evidence

But isnt that what a site like this is about, sifting through the circumstantial evidence? Anything obvious will be all over the media in a flash. Even with widely seen events like Phoenix lights over a heavy populated area, no photos. People werent even in bed, it was prime time.

As you saw with the cow snatching, lots of dead animals, costing lots of money, over an extended time period, but still no answers. No photos, no absolute proof, only speculation. But with many UFO cases, especially the early ones, we have objects performing maneuvers we cant do, unlike cow snatching. Perhaps the evidence isnt what we would like(spoon fed high rez video, it is what we should expect given the Phoenix lights), but imo I believe there is enough to conclude it isnt us.

a reply to: JimOberg

Thanks for validating it

Schmidtt, Dolan, Carey, Friedman...hard to tell them apart. How many of them have done AMAs here?

a reply to: JimOberg

Firstly, the obvious: none of the people I refer to, NONE, seek attention, vindication or money. They are not tied to any "ufology" or "exopolitics" groups - quite the contrary.

It is my understanding that valid, long, thorough analysis of a significant number of incidents/reports, done by european military (either active or retired, mostly high ranking officers) and scientists has reached the conclusion that while most such incidents/reports are PROPERLY explained (not "easily dismissed as") as physical phenomena or of human mis-perception origin, a fraction (not your "residue", albeit small it may be) cannot be explained - particularly, I should add, considering the physical and technological implications.

originally posted by: TheChronus
a reply to: JimOberg

Firstly, the obvious: none of the people I refer to, NONE, seek attention, vindication or money. They are not tied to any "ufology" or "exopolitics" groups - quite the contrary.

It is my understanding that valid, long, thorough analysis of a significant number of incidents/reports, done by european military (either active or retired, mostly high ranking officers) and scientists has reached the conclusion that while most such incidents/reports are PROPERLY explained (not "easily dismissed as") as physical phenomena or of human mis-perception origin, a fraction (not your "residue", albeit small it may be) cannot be explained - particularly, I should add, considering the physical and technological implications.

I don't dispute the observation that a fraction of reports have not been explained.

I'm asking you for the significance of that.

In a hypothetical universe where there WAS no genuinely anomalous phenomenon occurring, do you subconsciously assume that ALL reports WOULD be explained? That was the question you passed over, so I'm asking it again.

This isn't a trick question. It highlights what could be an unavoidable fog-factor of undeterminability of all human-related activities, ranging from missing persons and murder down to missing keys and socks. Everyday life demonstrates to us that the existence of a residue -- I use the term deliberately and non-prejudicially -- of 'unexplainED' events cannot alone be reasonably used to demand the existence of a fundamentally non-explainABLE stimulus.

In a hypothetical universe where there WAS no genuinely anomalous phenomenon occurring, do you subconsciously assume that ALL reports WOULD be explained? That was the question you passed over, so I'm asking it again.

In such a universe how could there be any reports?

originally posted by: Jonjonj

In a hypothetical universe where there WAS no genuinely anomalous phenomenon occurring, do you subconsciously assume that ALL reports WOULD be explained? That was the question you passed over, so I'm asking it again.

In such a universe how could there be any reports?

So -- the existence of reports of human levitation, communication with the dead, fairies and leprechauns, spontaneous human combustion, are all impossible unless SOME of the reports are accurate?

a reply to: JimOberg

No, you posited a universe in which NO anomalous events occur, in such a universe you are suggesting that all reports would be
explained. What you ignore is the fact that there would be no such reports, as nothing is happening.

Or perhaps you are suggesting our universe is such a universe and all reports are simply false. At least that is what I understand from what you wrote.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: JimOberg



No, you posited a universe in which NO anomalous events occur, in such a universe you are suggesting that all reports would be

explained. What you ignore is the fact that there would be no such reports, as nothing is happening.



Or perhaps you are suggesting our universe is such a universe and all reports are simply false. At least that is what I understand from what you wrote.

"In such a universe you are suggesting that all reports would be explained" -- Just the opposite.

I am asking questions. I recoil from such judgmental terms as 'false', here.

The direction i'm going is that in any genre of activity there might be a 'natural' level of garble that prevents every single story from being explained naturally, without recourse to ANY extraordinary stimuli at all related to the perceptions being reported.

Your argument seems to be that without a REAL phenomenon in at least a few cases, nobody would EVER think they were describing any phenomenon of any type that they could imagine.

By extension, doesn't such an argument [please clarify] produce a proof of the existence of God, because so many people believe they have encountered Him, at least a few of the stories MUST be authentic?

Maybe we ought to move this discussion to a thread of its own?

ADD: How about here?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: JimOberg

So you are saying that in a universe where NO anomalous events ever occur there would still be reports of anomalous events that would be unexplainable, either by known physics, or by simple misunderstanding of the underlying stimuli?

You may be correct about this deserving a thread of its own.

I have not however seen evidence, whether by radar, video or audio that suggests the existence of god to the degree that can be attributed to the phenomena of ufos, just to take one aspect of unexplained phenomena.

My argument is not in fact that there must be some truth to the rumour simply because there are a "few" cases that prove the rule. My argument is that the weight of evidence, if presented in any other field except the "unexplained" field, would be investigated to satiety of both physics and philosophy. That however isn't being, nor ever has been achieved. Rather strange set of circumstances that, don't you think?


I have responded in the thread that you created to talk about this topic.

After this deal with Richard Dolan, who's left with any kind of real credibility in the ufological field? I'm kind of bummed out about this whole situation and I just don't know who or what to believe in anymore in terms of dealing with the alien/info phenomenon.

a reply to: johnthejedi24 I know what you mean. In fact, this latest hoax brought back memories to me when I realized that Stan Friedman was caught up in the MJ 12 hoax documents. Still chagrined that he has never refuted them. In fact they have become his central theme.

So I understand the disappointment with Dolan, and the field in general now. Are there any intelligent people out there who will ever do bona fide research in this field? I don't know. Besides the most interesting theory of Jacques Vallee, I see nothing worthwhile anymore.

Richard Dolan's credibility is intact as far as I'm concerned. (For obvious reasons that I have stated in this very thread) - For one, he's a historian. He's not a forensic type researcher. Some people need to understand that.

As I've said before, there are many heated rivalries within Ufology, many turf battles, and they are not very far below the surface. Most are out in the open. It is very frustrating dealing with this field sometimes. A lot of backstabbing takes place and a lot of the players in this game will throw the next guy under the bus if given the chance. You need to pay attention and understand who you're dealing with in Ufology and who you're associated with. Otherwise, you risk being collateral damage and having that guilt by association tag stamped on you.

originally posted by: skyblueworld
a reply to: mirageman

Mainstream science will probably find the hard evidence for aliens before Richard Dolan or any of the other high priests of ufology.. Who will all then probably claim they were right all along when/if it does.

And when they do, how many will have egg on there face?

We'll need a hoax bin for humans soon enough.

Naw, science is too fickle to solve this, someone might call them names, hurt feelings, crying, reputation , etc. Pretty sad really.

originally posted by: johnthejedi24
I just don't know who or what to believe in anymore in terms of dealing with the alien/info phenomenon.

Tons of research on this very site. If you find a case that looks interesting, an internet search will usually give you both sides on it.

Any of you that claim Dolan's reputation is intact are kidding yourselves. If he has proven nothing else he has fully proven that he will address thousands publicly about a case that he has

1. either not bothered to research and confirm to protect his integrity and present the truth to the Public to the best of his ability or

2. was offered enough money to take a chance on the Roswell Slides to have gone on without being Disproven and cared not in the least if what he was saying was accurate or knew fully that he was assisting in a Hoax upon thousands of eager people that had been promised finally proof of Roswell aliens.

Either way he has proven he is not credible.

I spent an hour on the phone with a very well known UFO celebrity and experiencer and he agrees with me on those two points. He is also on TV a great deal and is very well known, even famous. No need to identify him

You simply can't give Dolan a pass on this. He has admitted he saw the slides once he got into Mexico and well before he was to take the stage.

I am of the opinion as well as the person I spoke with today, agreed that he would have never left for Mexico unless he was fully aware of the situation and had seen the Hi Res images prior to packing bag to travel. And also that he must have been paid a large sum to have risked what has happened. This is also substantiated by his statements on Coast after the event but before the release of the plaque deblurred. He was very clear on stating that he was certain that it would be a very very long time before the slides could ever be refuted or proven not to be an alien. He gambled his reputation and lost. You can not ever consider Dolan credible again because he either ran with what he knew to be a Hoax or he backed a Hoax without doing any verification. Either way his credibility is gone.

He's proven can't be trusted to present anything at this point because he will either not research it to confirm it before supporting a claim or will simply grab whatever brand exposure or payment for his appearances regardless if the claims can or can not be verified. Also his sneaky way of appearing to make conclusions of what it couldn't be in the slides while riding the top of the fence without actually saying it is an alien in the slides is a safeguard that failed him. He obviously NEVER thought the plaque would have been deciphered even if he was actually told before agreeing to appear that they all knew it was a Mummy and no alien.

Any of you that want to even think that Dolan was tricked, trapped or Hoodwinked might as well just call him stupid or reckless and I assure all of you that Dolan is neither of those things. Dolan made a calculated decision and took a gamble. He made it seem and claimed he was going just to see what was up with the slides and may now be blaming his involvement on anyone but himself, but you would be foolish to believe this. What you are seeing Dolan dance to now is his preplanned denial and exit strategy and nothing more.

Was it worth it to him? He's satisfied with his actions, what does that tell you? Maybe what he is saying is he's satisfied with the increase in his Bank account balance vs the gambled and risked loss of credibility. He likely made as much in two days as he otherwise would have made in a year. That gamble was calculated against the # hit storm being raised over the Roswell slides scandal, and as long as he got paid handsomely he otherwise doesn't give a # hit about the victims or any of his fans or followers. His statements prove his insensitivity and also point to a conclusion that he was rewarded well in some sort of hidden way.

I have heard many of my friends express disgust and that they are not going to Support KGRA or Dolan any more. I am one of those many who can see reality and not the candy coated cloud some of the rest of you are claiming you are blinded within.

a reply to: -Blackout-

i am not getting into your spat with ATS user batmmann , nor am i interested in his motives etc etc

but as for mr dolans credibility - get a grip

i outlined in the other thread my opinion on mr dolans honesty

curiously no dolan supported addressed that post

the thing is the more mr dolan says - the deeper he digs himself in .

APE out

PS - do you actually want a discussion on mr dolans position on this - or just an oprunity to attack the motives of other ATS members