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Exposure To Conspiracy "May Have Negative Effect"
page: 2share:
originally posted by: soulwaxer
a reply to: OfManAndWolf
The whole article presumes that there is no such thing as a conspiracy... Does anyone honestly think that there has never been a conspiracy? LOL
That is just as naive as believing that there has never been a person who seemed honest all his life and then suddenly became corrupt.
The article also seems to assume that if you believe in conspiracy theories, there is something wrong with you and this will cause social problems. But then it goes on to mention that 70% of Americans think that there was a wider plot to the JFK assassination (that automatically means conspiracy and a full blown cover-up).
Then: 63% of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Do you see the problem here? That is completely absurd if 70% believe that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy, especially taking into account the large number of different conspiracies people believe in.
Something else to consider: The "9/11 conspiracy theory" for example is not the only conspiracy theory of that event. The official story is also a conspiracy theory (19 Muslims with box cutters conspired to fool the whole of the US defence and highjacked 4 planes without a bullet fired at them). Meanwhile, there is A LOT more proof for the first theory than for the second. But I guess it can't be called a conspiracy theory if it involves people outside of the west...
The utter stupidity just keeps on blowing my mind. I have read articles of this type from university professors in philosophy and sociology.
soulwaxer
I hear you.
I've had relatives say "all conspiracy theories are garbage."
The thing is, there are factual uncovered conspiracies across history. For example, as you noted, if Al Queda and those hijackers really did plan 911, THAT was a conspiracy.
The Mafia... IS A CONSPIRACY.
Those that plotted Julius Caesar's death... CONSPIRED.
I think the bigger issue is that most Westerners have been heavily indoctrinated to believe that our government is pure, that foreign policy is for freedom and helping others, etc. People are perfectly willing to believe that the Mafia conspires, but not the CIA!
a reply to: OfManAndWolf
The most frustrating part of conspiracy theories in general, is that many of them get hijacked by nutcases whose audiences may not be the most educated, but often times are the most vocal.
So what the majority of the world sees when it comes to conspiracy theories is just that, the nutcases.
In reality, the history of the world is built on conspiracies. This isn't a theory, this is just fact based on the definition of the word.
Conspiracy - An evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
- Any occurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
If you have any decent understanding of world history, you will know that based on the above definition, almost every event in history that produced some type of long lasting change for better or worse, was part of a conspiracy.
The term Conspiracy Theorist has been tainted and really needs to stop being used.
The most frustrating part of conspiracy theories in general, is that many of them get hijacked by nutcases whose audiences may not be the most educated, but often times are the most vocal.
So what the majority of the world sees when it comes to conspiracy theories is just that, the nutcases.
In reality, the history of the world is built on conspiracies. This isn't a theory, this is just fact based on the definition of the word.
Conspiracy - An evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
- Any occurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
If you have any decent understanding of world history, you will know that based on the above definition, almost every event in history that produced some type of long lasting change for better or worse, was part of a conspiracy.
The term Conspiracy Theorist has been tainted and really needs to stop being used.
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14
Most people view conspiracies as only being something of an evil nature. This is not true, although the most well known and popular ones generally are. When you explain what conspiracy really means to someone, and take out generalizations regarding Government conspiracies, people are more willing to listen to what you have to say.
The average person hasn't necessarily researched all of the information required to form a deep and logical opinion on certain subjects/conspiracies. So when you talk about the Mafia conspiring it is much easier for them to understand. If you talk about the government and paint a broad generalized picture of conspiracy you will lose most people, and rightfully so.
Most conspiracies in government involve a very small group of people, whereas a general conspiracy regarding the Mafia is logical due to the small size and tight knit group mentality that is any Mafia group.
Most people view conspiracies as only being something of an evil nature. This is not true, although the most well known and popular ones generally are. When you explain what conspiracy really means to someone, and take out generalizations regarding Government conspiracies, people are more willing to listen to what you have to say.
The average person hasn't necessarily researched all of the information required to form a deep and logical opinion on certain subjects/conspiracies. So when you talk about the Mafia conspiring it is much easier for them to understand. If you talk about the government and paint a broad generalized picture of conspiracy you will lose most people, and rightfully so.
Most conspiracies in government involve a very small group of people, whereas a general conspiracy regarding the Mafia is logical due to the small size and tight knit group mentality that is any Mafia group.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Nice discussion!
I, of course, am compelled to add my take on the notion that "conspiracy theories" are a societal illness, or a flaw in human character.
Such a stance and or speech belongs to the conformist:
"All things that have occurred outside your immediate control to be accepted as "normal" events. Don't worry about the things you cannot change - or could not have changed. Don't waste anyone's time with these things. They are a distraction from our normal lives minding the fantasies commercial productions have outlined for us. So we are lied to in public media, so millions a year fall in one way or another to cahooting gluttonous coyotes, so the whole of the world is now 'claimed' by strangers..., So what? ...keep your nose to the grindstone; chase that mortgage, obey the "forms" of your neighbors - that's what matters."
Sadly, conspiracy theories are often accompanied by the memes injected into them; usually because the way they are most predominantly disseminated is via the 'lens' of another. But it is no less "real" that in every every political season these same "conformists" engage in endless conspiracy debates about their evil opponents... and in fact conspire themselves, to bring as much humiliation and shame as possible. Funny thing that.
The truth is a conspiracy theorist knows full well who dares to engage in an analytical discussion about a given topic, and who you are just going to make feel uncomfortable... The detraction against considering the conspiratorial are all based on a single premise.... "who cares?"... which is a way of denying any connection to, or obligation to understand any of it. These were the people who read the cliff-note version of Lord of the Rings, rather than the work itself.
I can't deny that life might be less stressful at times were it not for conspiracy theory... but then... I am not cattle... I don't run to that kind of "peace".. I run from it.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
originally posted by: OfManAndWolf
Personally, I believe exposure to crappy journalism and the inundation of elitist propaganda through main stream media sources causes an appreciable decrease in measurable IQ. Have you noticed lately that most of these alleged journalists can't spell, miss words and cannot put a sentence together properly half of the time. It makes reading the "rags" almost painful. The glass tit presentations of ***infotainment-propaganda-news*** are better scripted of course, at least somebody checks the teleprompters, but the presenters do seem a tad vacuous and flippant.
I am not being critical of users at ATS, as many of us are rushed and of course we are not paid for readable perfection (I make many mistakes, but I'm an engineer and physicist so I get a free pass, everybody knows we can't do that writing thing, LOL). The object here I suppose at ATS is primarily to get a point, idea, story, link, etc. across the sea of electrons and hopefully increase knowledge and awareness.
ETA: With a name like Misty, I wonder what she does on the side (nudge nudge wink wink). BTW, I am kind of ashamed she's in Canada, in a way, for the stereotypers out there, it shines a dull light on some of our alleged journalists. You'd think they'd know better, being journalists.
Cheers - Dave
Awesome input, man. Wish I was a physicist/engineer. Oh well.
I have definitely increased my awareness, and am glad to finally meet a bunch of others doing the same thing. Keep fighting the good fight, man.
P.S- Should build me a satellite Mr.Smarty pants,
I could do that but would have more fun building the drive system, I do want to get off this virtual reality planet and see the virtual reality universe. however, I am quite proficient in weapons development, countermeasures, the geometry required for monopole creation and adiabatic reactors (I built the first one in 1992/93 through the NRC) ;-)
I can cook and sew too, but don't tell anybody, LOL.
Cheers - Dave
originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
Most people view conspiracies as only being something of an evil nature.
Organizing a surprise party is a conspiracy!
originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
If you talk about the government and paint a broad generalized picture of conspiracy you will lose most people, and rightfully so.
Most conspiracies in government involve a very small group of people, whereas a general conspiracy regarding the Mafia is logical due to the small size and tight knit group mentality that is any Mafia group.
Hierarchy and need to know basis, that's how they do it. Everybody gets payed so everybody shuts up.
History is loaded with conspiracies, I don't understand how some people could think that none of it happens anymore.
The constant ridiculing and demonizing of conspiracy theorists by the media is a conspiracy in itself.
a reply to: soulwaxer
That's right. None of the conspiracy theories, anyway.
What could be better than battling ignorance, stupidity and prejudice, and having fun doing it?
ATS would be nothing without people like me.
You have been reading about conspiracy theories on this site for 10 years and you don't believe ANY of it???
That's right. None of the conspiracy theories, anyway.
Don't you have something more productive to do?
What could be better than battling ignorance, stupidity and prejudice, and having fun doing it?
ATS would be nothing without people like me.
a reply to: soulwaxer
Not at all. Conspiracies and conspiracy theories are two very different things.
I just love it when people assume I am less knowledgeable or intelligent than I am. I am interested in conspiracy theories as a psychological and social phenomenon, so I already know a bit about their history.
Was there ever a conspiracy theory about Operation Northwoods? No. About the Tonkin incident? No. These were real conspiracies but there are no conspiracy theories associated with them. I hope you understand me better now.
Assuming that all conspiracy theories are false is exactly the same as assuming that there is no such thing as a conspiracy.
Not at all. Conspiracies and conspiracy theories are two very different things.
I suggest you read up on the history of the term "conspiracy theory".
I just love it when people assume I am less knowledgeable or intelligent than I am. I am interested in conspiracy theories as a psychological and social phenomenon, so I already know a bit about their history.
As to your second point: Look up Operation Northwoods and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. There are several others.
Was there ever a conspiracy theory about Operation Northwoods? No. About the Tonkin incident? No. These were real conspiracies but there are no conspiracy theories associated with them. I hope you understand me better now.
Can anyone think of a conspiracy theory that was later proven true?
I don't mean a leak or a whistleblower's report that was later shown to be true. That is a verifiable claim, not a theory. I mean a pre-existing theory, like the 9/11 conspiracy theory, or the chemtrail conspiracy theory, or the Illuminati theory, or the Queen is an Alien theory. Show us one that was proved true.
Just one will do.
I don't mean a leak or a whistleblower's report that was later shown to be true. That is a verifiable claim, not a theory. I mean a pre-existing theory, like the 9/11 conspiracy theory, or the chemtrail conspiracy theory, or the Illuminati theory, or the Queen is an Alien theory. Show us one that was proved true.
Just one will do.
Yeah, I have to concur with the folks who've said what's wrong with CTs is the basket cases who hijack the entire premise to further their own
deluded BS like invisible planets, aliens in the sun, sooper seekrit microchipping and so forth. THOSE people are the ones who ruin it for the rest of
us willing & able to have a well-thought, productive discussion.
What's the saying...if you want to run with the big dogs, quit pissing like a puppy. Too much fringe crapola is simply thrown at the wall & sticks only through wishful thinking (rather than hard research & debate) We need the iffier CTers to buck up more & contribute to something other than making the rest of us look like mental ward inhabitants.
What's the saying...if you want to run with the big dogs, quit pissing like a puppy. Too much fringe crapola is simply thrown at the wall & sticks only through wishful thinking (rather than hard research & debate) We need the iffier CTers to buck up more & contribute to something other than making the rest of us look like mental ward inhabitants.
originally posted by: Astyanax
Can anyone think of a conspiracy theory that was later proven true?
I don't mean a leak or a whistleblower's report that was later shown to be true. That is a verifiable claim, not a theory. I mean a pre-existing theory, like the 9/11 conspiracy theory, or the chemtrail conspiracy theory, or the Illuminati theory, or the Queen is an Alien theory. Show us one that was proved true.
Just one will do.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Actually, one rarely suffices. Every CT is plump with nonsense which has been inserted into it. The act itself is often accomplished without malice. It is a function of characterizations about the players in the CT, or the circumstances which surround it. For each below you'll note 'sober' objections based upon the presumption of "no such thing exists." So... here' are some for you to reject.
One: MKULTRA
The United States government's own creation; secret and systematic experiments in the parameters of mental disruption and programming was deep and dark. Many a citizen was hospitalized and unknowingly traumatized by drugs and other less than therapeutic applications of psychiatric science. True.
Two: Tuskegee Syphilis "study"
C'mon..., you didn't know of this? Anyone who would ever have dared to declare that doctors working with the US government would intentionally allow people to suffer the ravages of syphilis just so they could observe the deterioration, they would likely have been boo'd and hissed at. America is not about that kind of treatment of her citizens... but they did. True.
Three: The Mafia.
Yup I'm talking about the Sicilians, Jewish, Polish, Irish, Russians..., Chinese tongs, Japanese Yakuza; ... Every culture that has emigrated to the US has installed it's own brand of organized crime group into our society. Each has migrated into as much vice and prostitution as they could; while their more prominent family members have become public servants- at all levels. True.
Four: The "business plot"
The first attempted coup d'etat of the United States that I know of. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler revealed that he had been approached by a bevy of industrialists and one former Wall Street executive banker turned Senator, Prescott Bush, to lead a military coup against "New Deal" President FDR. True.
Five: USS Liberty..., Six: Flight 93 "Let's Roll!"..., Seven: Crips/Blood "Let's kill Cops!" ...., There are too many to list.
Now What is most interesting is the idea that 'there is no such thing'... it is almost unfathomable...
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: OfManAndWolf
The most frustrating part of conspiracy theories in general, is that many of them get hijacked by nutcases whose audiences may not be the most educated, but often times are the most vocal.
This is also a great way to make a legit conspiracy seem like a nut-job fantasy and thus ignore it.
That said, I have often noticed the most some of the most vocal at say a city hall meeting often seem a little on the nut-job side.
I am probably the only one in my group of friends who likes to settle in bed with a good book on conspiracies. This does not unsettle me in any way.
In fact, it draws away from my everyday problems and stresses, as it tells me there is so much more out there I should be concerned about than my
petty little problems.
I don't think it has any negative affect on me at all. It pushes me to delve deeper and learn more about the history of my country (or others) and how we shouldn't always take things at face value. And, in a way, I have come to learn more about myself and how I view the world.
I don't think it has any negative affect on me at all. It pushes me to delve deeper and learn more about the history of my country (or others) and how we shouldn't always take things at face value. And, in a way, I have come to learn more about myself and how I view the world.
edit on 13-5-2015 by texasgirl because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Maxmars
As I have already pointed out, conspiracies are not conspiracy theories. Of course conspiracies exist. Always have. But conspiracy theories have nothing to do with real conspiracies.
Perhaps the inability to distinguish between the two is one of the marks of the conspiracy theorist.
As I have already pointed out, conspiracies are not conspiracy theories. Of course conspiracies exist. Always have. But conspiracy theories have nothing to do with real conspiracies.
Perhaps the inability to distinguish between the two is one of the marks of the conspiracy theorist.
a reply to: Astyanax
Perhaps I failed to appreciate that you are limiting your bias to the practice of "conspiracy theorizing" (Those which have not been subsequently proven true, or perhaps even false?)
Fair game. I refer to those proven proven because many who brought this to light faced heavy-handed skepticism, and publicly uttered words of "wild-eyed conspiracy theorizing." It is the nature of the illness our society fails to appreciate repeatedly.
I suppose their are infinite examples of those which can not be proved, nor even supposed in some cases; but to what end?
Or am I misunderstanding again? Were you inviting someone to lay out a conspiracy theory that you would believe?
Perhaps I failed to appreciate that you are limiting your bias to the practice of "conspiracy theorizing" (Those which have not been subsequently proven true, or perhaps even false?)
Fair game. I refer to those proven proven because many who brought this to light faced heavy-handed skepticism, and publicly uttered words of "wild-eyed conspiracy theorizing." It is the nature of the illness our society fails to appreciate repeatedly.
I suppose their are infinite examples of those which can not be proved, nor even supposed in some cases; but to what end?
Or am I misunderstanding again? Were you inviting someone to lay out a conspiracy theory that you would believe?
edit on 05amx05amThu, 14 May 2015 00:50:39 -050039 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)
When global and national corruption reach the levels they are at today, there becomes a need of the corrupt to make conspiracies seem like something
only crazy people would entertain. It makes sense then that there are these anti conspiracy pieces reaching the main news streams.
And also knowing how the media moguls are those with heavy connections to those who are in high political positions, it makes sense to see these editorials being presented more and more.
And also knowing how the media moguls are those with heavy connections to those who are in high political positions, it makes sense to see these editorials being presented more and more.
a reply to: Maxmars
Can you give us an example of a conspiracy theory that has been proven true? Please try to understand that I don't mean something like the Tuskegee experiment, in which the victims were well aware that something had been done to them personally but struggled to make the world listen to them (because they were black and poor); that doesn't count as a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are the work of people who aren't directly involved with or 'in the know' concerning the events and people they're theorizing about. They are developed from shreds of publicly available information and a great deal of speculation by third parties -- people working, as the cliché has it, from their basements.
Tuskegee, Bay of Pigs, Iran-Contra: conspiracies.
Chemtrails, UFO cover-ups, the Illuminati: conspiracy theories.
If you're going to come back to me and say that the only difference between the two lists is that the items on one list have been proved and those on the other have not, then you really have not understood the point I am making. The items on the first list never engendered conspiracy theories in the first place.
Perhaps I failed to appreciate that you are limiting your bias to the practice of "conspiracy theorizing" (Those which have not been subsequently proven true, or perhaps even false?)
Fair game. I refer to those proven -- proven because many who brought this to light faced heavy-handed skepticism, and publicly uttered words of "wild-eyed conspiracy theorizing."
Can you give us an example of a conspiracy theory that has been proven true? Please try to understand that I don't mean something like the Tuskegee experiment, in which the victims were well aware that something had been done to them personally but struggled to make the world listen to them (because they were black and poor); that doesn't count as a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are the work of people who aren't directly involved with or 'in the know' concerning the events and people they're theorizing about. They are developed from shreds of publicly available information and a great deal of speculation by third parties -- people working, as the cliché has it, from their basements.
Tuskegee, Bay of Pigs, Iran-Contra: conspiracies.
Chemtrails, UFO cover-ups, the Illuminati: conspiracy theories.
If you're going to come back to me and say that the only difference between the two lists is that the items on one list have been proved and those on the other have not, then you really have not understood the point I am making. The items on the first list never engendered conspiracy theories in the first place.
edit on 14/5/15 by Astyanax because: of phone dumbness.
a reply to: Astyanax
REX 84?www.theblaze.com...
A closed mind .
I would HATE to live cluesless like that.list25.com...
REX 84?www.theblaze.com...
A closed mind .
I would HATE to live cluesless like that.list25.com...
edit on 15-5-2015 by cavtrooper7
because: (no reason given)
a reply to: cavtrooper7
Thanks for the links. Neither of them presents a single valid case of a conspiracy theory that grew up into a real conspiracy.
Some of the examples are nutzo. The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition? That's correct -- they made things like perfume and alcohol-based household products undrinkable -- because booze-starved alcoholics were drinking them, and they were poisonous anyway.
Still, I appreciate your effort. Didn't enjoy the 'clueless' crack so much, but then, it just makes you look like a jerk, so I guess that's all right. You didn't even spell it correctly.
Have a nice day our there among the wide open mental spaces. Do you find yourself whistling 'Don't Fence Me In' a lot of the time?
Thanks for the links. Neither of them presents a single valid case of a conspiracy theory that grew up into a real conspiracy.
Some of the examples are nutzo. The US government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition? That's correct -- they made things like perfume and alcohol-based household products undrinkable -- because booze-starved alcoholics were drinking them, and they were poisonous anyway.
Still, I appreciate your effort. Didn't enjoy the 'clueless' crack so much, but then, it just makes you look like a jerk, so I guess that's all right. You didn't even spell it correctly.
Have a nice day our there among the wide open mental spaces. Do you find yourself whistling 'Don't Fence Me In' a lot of the time?
edit on 15/5/15 by Astyanax because: of cowboys. Whistling ones.
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