Here are the 5 best things that have happened to Bernie Sanders since he announced.

originally posted by: luthier
He is one of the best choices but it wont happen. He and Clinton will split up liberal votes and Jeb slides into the helm. Politicians wont and never have fixed society. Thats for philosophers, engineers, and scientists. Politicians are like a wall between the rooms that house all the solutions of the world.

I will also add in Rubio on Jeb's ticket, which will steal a lot of the Hispanic votes from the lunatic Hillary. = Bush Monarchy. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: Metallicus
He is anti-2nd amendment. Deal breaker for me.

Assuming this is even true in the first place, why let the perfect be the enemy of the good? Vote Bernie Sanders if you like his other policies, and then vote for people in congress who can act as a counterweight on the 2nd.

If you're electing 3 people to DC, you get your way on any issue where two of them agree. That means you can vote for a guy who doesn't like guns if the other two do.

a reply to: Metallicus

A president should be selected in view of what he can accomplish, not what he wishes for.

He'd never get the guns. He wouldn't get most of the scary stuff he wants. His best results would be in unilaterally using the executive branch to execute existing laws on those not normally subject to them.

You don't vote for a guy like Bernie to make policy, you do it to break a monopoly on policy making.

I submit to you that if you will vote to have yourself robbed threatened and controlled just to keep your gun, your gun is failing to protect you.

Of course they would assassinate Bernie, so I guess we will need some guns to protect him... That's a thinker.

a reply to: The Vagabond

But then again as stated already... he's not pro gun control.

a reply to: The Vagabond

I submit to you that if you will vote to have yourself robbed threatened and controlled just to keep your gun, your gun is failing to protect you.

I love this, just says so much.
So many will refuse to vote for anyone that disagrees with them in the slightest when it comes to that issue, regardless on what else they stand for.

1. He's a self described socialist. I don't like socialists and I never will. I don't care.

2. It doesn't even matter what he says he's gonna do. They all do that. The story changes soon as they get elected. Remember when Obamacare wasn't going to have an individual mandate? That was before Obama got elected. Once he was comfortably in the WH, the Obamacare story changed immediately. The bill he signed was unrecognizable from the one he sold. What a politician says means absolutely nothing. It's what they do that counts. They'll never show you their cards until they win.

3. The socialist thing creeps me out more and more.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Why does the socialist thing creep you out more and more? The oligarchy we have is better somehow? We already have the worst system possible. The very wealthiest people are the only ones who affect policy.

a reply to: luthier

I firmly believe that America, of all countries in this world, can and should provide it's citizens with free health care. There is no reason not to.

Simply one of the things I happen to believe Liberals have right. The idea of it that is, the implementation is horrendous.

My taxes should go to more than military and government expenses. All the money I have paid over the years in one form of tax or another should have already guaranteed me health care.

I'm 100% against Obamacare.

I'm 100% for universal healthcare paid for by my taxes through cuts elsewhere in the government. Even handed cuts across the board to EVERYTHING. Military, entitlements, darling programs of the right and left should be scaled back to pay for covering us all.

Just one of my Independent views.

a reply to: luthier

Cause people have heard so much propaganda about socialism.
Even though our corps and business use it all the time, they socialize the losses and privatize the profit.
I don't think I would want full blown socialism, but socialist policy seems to work well through out the world.
Heath care and education is where I want to see it implemented

If your only concern in voting for Bernie Sanders is over the establishment of Socialist Big Brother, please take some time to consider the level of big brother Republicans and Democrats continue to build on.

The two big parties have already given you those, and want to extend it more.

What gets me is that other countries in the world have fantastic ways of doing things, but we ignore them due to our arrogance and pride. If something wasn't thought up by America, it must not be that great. We allow our "American Exceptionalism" to hinder our true greatness.

We should be looking at Germany's healthcare, Norway's correctional system -- places that have made things work with good success.

I find it funny that the people I meet that decry universal healthcare or any kind of "European" idea have never been to Europe, most haven't even MET anyone from Europe. I got wonderful emergency medical care in Paris, better than what I would have had in America actually.

We're America -- we're supposed to be No. 1 ... doesn't being No. 1 mean that we take the best ideas (regardless of where they're from) and combine them all together?

We can do better, we should do better. America should be setting an example for the rest of the world, instead of letting herself get bogged down in partisan bickering over idiotic ideological abstractions.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Cause no where else is like america, so we can't compare.

Until it fits the issue then it can be compared.

originally posted by: [post=19329230]MystikMushroom[/po
We should be looking at Germany's healthcare, Norway's correctional system -- places that have made things work with good success.

For how long. How were Germany and Norway (Europe in general) doing in the 40s? Not so long ago. We have had things (relatively) better for longer than these people and we had the cold war for a reason. We did not have decades of wondering when we'd get nuked back into the stone age by communists to let them weasel their way into our society and take over.

Socialism is the system that put at least a hundred million people in mass graves. And if you accept that Nazis were a form of socialism, more than that. I don't trust any government but I wouldn't trust a socialist any further than I could throw a dump truck.

Anyone who has a social engineering mindset creeps me out.

Bernie is NOT a Socialist!! He identifies as a Democratic Socialist. He wants to use our tax dollars to make OUR lives better - not prop up the banks, multi-national corporations and the military industrial complex.

Stop being so afraid of words without knowing the story behind them.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

How long can we sustain what we have going?

And if you want to bring up the 40's or how much better we had it back in the day then please check the tax rates until Kennedy changed them.

Socialism is the system that put at least a hundred million people in mass graves.

Holy batman hyperbole!!!
The propaganda is strong with this one.

originally posted by: theplu
Bernie is NOT a Socialist!! He identifies as a Democratic Socialist. He wants to use our tax dollars to make OUR lives better

Really? Isn't that exactly what Obama said? Though I will concede that Obama lied and claimed he wasn't a socialist.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Virtually all American politicians are socialists though- especially the hawks.

Think about it- The United States Marine ObamaCorps is socialist as hell. Obama is FORCING me to buy military protection, and the ONLY place I can legally buy it is from a non-profit government organization, and I don't even have a choice of coverage plans- I even have to buy submarine protection if I move to Kansas!

It costs trillions, it is taking millions of man-years of labor out of the free market economy- these socialist politicians have got our best and brightest practicing marching into battle single file like it was 1776 getting paid to wait until there's a job for them to do when they ought to be providing private contractors with cheap muscle to produce something marketable!

Not only that, but every single American is required to register so that Obama can send men with guns to their house to force them to become a servant to this program for minimum wage for as long as the government deems necessary, and it's completely constitutional and legal. Even if they never actually call you, you could go to jail just for not signing up and giving them the option of enslaving you. What kind of socialist scum are you if you haven't burned your draft card and sworn only to ever work for the highest bidder?


Oh one other thing about our socialist military: it's the best program of its kind in the world; it provides superior quality in every area for every single one of us, and the only part of it that's really inordinately expensive is the procurement of equipment from the non-socialized arms industry. Gee, I certainly hope that Bernie Sanders isn't planning to make America that committed to success in areas of government that expand life rather than exploding it! That would unmake everything that America is... (which at the moment is a fast-growing monument to myopia and mediocrity in spite of our once awesome vision and potential).

a reply to: The Vagabond

Think about it- The United States Marine ObamaCorps is socialist as hell. Obama is FORCING me to buy military protection, and the ONLY place I can legally buy it is from a non-profit government organization, and I don't even have a choice of coverage plans- I even have to buy submarine protection if I move to Kansas!

This part went over my head, I got the rest of what you were getting at though.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I'm suggesting that the basic funding model of the military (not just the marine corps, I simply saw the opportunity to force an obamacare-like phrase) would never be accepted as a new protective institution if it hadn't evolved as a functioning system ahead of the Red Scare and been taken for granted.

One does not have the option of going uninsured against foreign aggression, and one can not go through the free market to find the balance of quality and cost that best suits their circumstances- one has absolutely no choice but to pay for this service from the government and nobody else. Effectively responsible conservative people like me who live outside the range of enemy naval weapons have to subsidize the safety of beach bums because I can't opt out of things I don't need or even shop around for a better deal.

Furthermore the government does not provide a financial incentive for those who provide this service to go above and beyond. They want us to believe that soldiers will give their all just because it's the right thing to do, even though they get paid the same whether they kill all of the terrorists or just enough to make them scatter for a while.

Every single element of the anti-socialist argument is obviously applicable and yet absurd on its face when you apply it to the one completely socialized industry in the country.

a reply to: The Vagabond

Gotcha, for some reason I thought you were actually talking about getting sub insurance

But ya, totally agree with what you have to say.