MH17-Ukrainian BUK ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

What exactly is the Russian version? You seem to offer a wealth of information that all blame's the Ukraine. All the while asking the Dutch where the evidence is. When you know the report isn't due untill October.



So may I be first? Where is the official Russian version?.

a reply to: dragonridr

They don`t have a case, hence they are grasping for straws with Bellingcat crap to try and get witnesses.

"Cabinet raises false hopes persecution MH17-perpetrators"

Actually was released on Russian state television and worse had interviews with Russian generals On RT explaining it. Sad when your propaganda is caught lying.

Basically what Obama, Kerry, Poroshenko and the whole US congress have been doing in the matter of MH17.

To my knowledge, RT, Sputnik and Tass have ignored the fake satellite image, so I`m waiting for your proof about that?

a reply to: Greathouse

Russia is not part of the investigative team, Ukraine and The Netherlands are doing that.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ya think ?????

Yeah I think everybody that owns a TV or computer knows Russia is not in on the official investigation..

But they are officially a government, and many governments have spoken up on the tragedy.



I can only assume the reason Russia doesn't have a opinion is because the Kerlim controlled media is currently throwing crap against the wall see if any will stick.


I am sorry it but offends me because , people died in this event it was a tragedy for many families. The Kremlin controlled media is dancing around from scenario to scenario. Making a mockery of the victims who perished and the pain left behind for their families.

Seriously I'm waiting for RT to post a Benny Hill style clip with Liz Wah driving the Buk, and the kindhearted separatists Chasin after her throwing marshmallows.

My God like I said in the beginning I've actually lost track of all the scenarios on the downing of MH 17 that the Russia media has put out. It sure would be nice for the families if they could find one scenario and stick with it like the west did.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: dragonridr

They don`t have a case, hence they are grasping for straws with Bellingcat crap to try and get witnesses.

"Cabinet raises false hopes persecution MH17-perpetrators"

Actually was released on Russian state television and worse had interviews with Russian generals On RT explaining it. Sad when your propaganda is caught lying.

Basically what Obama, Kerry, Poroshenko and the whole US congress have been doing in the matter of MH17.

To my knowledge, RT, Sputnik and Tass have ignored the fake satellite image, so I`m waiting for your proof about that?

It was released by Rusia 1 the Kremlin mouth piece. And even worse the other Russian sattlite photos were discredited as well aparently Russian satelites don't keep track of days. And Russia released year old photos as being current ooops.

a reply to: dragonridr

The satellite photo of tsurfer2000h is from November and you`re article is from August...?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
MH17-Ukrainian BUK ?

Russian weapon experts have made a thoroughly analysis of damage patterns on MH17 by looking at the online available pictures.

And while I have seen such analyses before, they were up until then pretty amateurish and by so not very trustworthy, but this one looks to be done much better.

The full document is published by the highly critical Russian opposition newspaper "Novaya Gazeta."

If you go the jim stone site there was extensive coverage of this there and one can see the close up high res pictures of the cockpit fuelslarge that there are bullet holes made from both directions in the side of the cockpit. Its quite unmistakeable so the first finding that it was struck by solid objects is correct.

check it out - jimestone.com

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: dragonridr

The satellite photo of tsurfer2000h is from November and you`re article is from August...?

There were two sets first one showed what Russia claimed we re Ukrainian buKS they were not the second was the plane being shot down again faked. First set of sattelite photos was shown to be the Ukrainian base from over a year ago Russia tried to say it was the week before the shooting. Russia's Intel was bad they moved there air defense batteries Base further west months prior. Russia was unaware of this and thought they were still there and using an old photo wouldn't matter again ooops.

a reply to: Greathouse

I am sorry it but offends me because , people died in this event it was a tragedy for many families.

I`m from The Netherlands, so it matters even more to me, hence the reason I have been following it closely.

And that`s also why I reject all the crap which have been played out by The West about it.

- When Ukraine says we`re not going to attack the crash site and then almost immediately attacks it

- Starts to frustrate the investigation immediately

- The Dutch government doesn`t seem to be keen in finding out what has happened

- Ukraine is part of the investigation and can veto whatever evidence it doesn`t find suitable

- When we get an American expert saying within 48 hours the US has a lot of evidence and will release it soon, but doesn`t

- We have Westerbeke saying they are going to come with other preliminary reports after the first was released and they don`t

- We have the Dutch government withholding crucial information twice

- We have the US government saying they have satellite pictures with definite proof (and they do, but don`t want to release it)

- We have the Ukrainian Secret Service (which is being lead by the CIA now) coming up with all kinds of crappy evidence which looks to be fabricated

- Air traffic control tapes not being released

- No reports about what kind of metal fragments there have been found in the corpses

- And Western media without solid evidence keeps doing exactly the same thing which they falsely have been doing all along, namely blame Russia/Separatists for everything which has been going on in the Ukraine...

...but hey, knowing the CIA has a floor at the SBU building in Kiev, The Dutch Secret Services are lapdogs of the CIA and Belgian Secret Services are no different as to my country...

...we have in reality a CIA lead investigation...

The Netherlands is as tame as a lapdog to America. That says a whistleblower Edward Snowden tonight in an interview with News Hour. "The Dutch secret services do exactly what is asked by them by the Americans and are just used by the NSA," said the exiled whistleblower.

Source

Proving that Kiev, under the direction of the CIA (the CIA have set-up a station occupying the entire top floor of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense in Kiev) later the same day, Thursday 17 July,

Source

...so the official investigation is nothing more as one big joke.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Greathouse

I am sorry it but offends me because , people died in this event it was a tragedy for many families.

I`m from The Netherlands, so it matters even more to me, hence the reason I have been following it closely.

And that`s also why I reject all the crap which have been played out by The West about it.

- When Ukraine says we`re not going to attack the crash site and then almost immediately attacks it

- Starts to frustrate the investigation immediately

- The Dutch government doesn`t seem to be keen in finding out what has happened

- Ukraine is part of the investigation and can veto whatever evidence it doesn`t find suitable

- When we get an American expert saying within 48 hours the US has a lot of evidence and will release it soon, but doesn`t

- We have Westerbeke saying they are going to come with other preliminary reports after the first was released and they don`t

- We have a the Dutch government withholding crucial information twice

- We have the US government saying they have satellite pictures with definite proof (and they do, but don`t want to release it)

- We have the Ukrainian Secret Service (which is being lead by the CIA now) coming up with all kinds of crappy evidence which looks to be fabricated

- Air traffic control tapes not being released

- No reports about what kind of metal fragments there have been found in the corpses

- And Western media without solid evidence keeps doing exactly the same thing which they falsely have been doing all along, namely blame Russia/Separatists for everything which has been going on in the Ukraine...

...but hey, knowing the CIA has a floor at the SBU building in Kiev, The Dutch Secret Services are lapdogs of the CIA and Belgian Secret Services are no different as to my country...

...we have in reality a CIA lead investigation...

The Netherlands is as tame as a lapdog to America. That says a whistleblower Edward Snowden tonight in an interview with News Hour. "The Dutch secret services do exactly what is asked by them by the Americans and are just used by the NSA," said the exiled whistleblower.

Source

Proving that Kiev, under the direction of the CIA (the CIA have set-up a station occupying the entire top floor of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense in Kiev) later the same day, Thursday 17 July,

Source

...so the official investigation is nothing more as one big joke.

You just make stuff up don't you?? First the evidence was releases during a briefing of the press by the state department. They showed the launch detection they showed pictured of BuKS crossing into Ukraine. Is it just you wanted something Else??

Your own government since you claim to be from Netherlands is currently gathering witnesses to the BUK launching. And they are planning to prosecute still unclear hiw far they will go. As far as evidence the west has been relatively tame though one of your journalists there did do an investigation. He removed some mussile fragments had them looked at and they were determined to be from a Buk. Thus is why Russia no longer try the idea of a plane shooting it down like they tried earlier.

The only side that has put out blatantly false information is Russia yet you continue to believe them. Says something towards your motivations. But that aside let's look. at the evidence. We have video recordings of sepratists claiming they shot it down. Even bragged about it on the net. Than they realized it wasn't military oh and by the way just a couple of days earlier bragged when their Buk shot down a military transport. So than we have a conversation were they report back to Moscow it was a civilian jet. Then the sepratists block access to the site and negotiations start.

In the mean time sepratists are piling up plane debris with back hoes. Finally the dutch safety board gets access but than only for limited time in fact first several visits wouldn't allow anything to be done. In the mean time the blackbox was recovered but they wait to return it basically had to get the ok from Moscow. In the mean time sepratists didn't secure the site and by now passenger credit cards and valuables were being stolen. Well once again restrictions access this is the reason Ukraine tried to take it back. They wanted the Dutch to have access helps their case.

So then Russia releases false information including a power point never released the actual radar data by the way. Even though the Dutch requested it But luckily they had Ukraines. Than comes a flood of false information trying to point anywhere else but the Buk in sepratists hands. Including the faked sattelite data we talked obout from georgia.

Then the report comes out and days yes it was a surface to air missile. This causes Russia to have to change and now suddenly it was a Ukrainian Buk in rebel held territory. Really?? So if your from the Netherlands like you claim than why on earth do you ignore facts even your own press and government agree on?? Germany even released their intelligence information on it as well. At what point are you going to admit your being lied to by Russia??

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And that`s also why I reject all the crap which have been played out by The West about it.

I guess by when you say all the crap in the western media you mean. The story that the separatist shot it down it was on accident. As I haven't heard any other claims than that from the western media.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That didn`t come from the Russian government, now did it ?

It didn't come from the Russian government you say...Let's refresh your memory, because Russia's government owns most if not all the media in Russia, so with that being said.

The government controls Channel One and Russia One - two of the three main federal channels - while state-controlled energy giant Gazprom owns NTV.

www.bbc.com...

So it seems Russian government does own the channel that reported that as a so called smoking gun satellite photo...Imagine that.

And who do you think the satellite photo came from...The Russian Government is who.

It was the Ukrainian REBELS who came in to the crash site and immediately began messing with everything, not the Ukraine government. Since, you know, it landed in Rebel-held territory.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Man you seem to be getting worked up in this thread. Relax take a deep breath and listen to this song that I am sure will comfort you.

a reply to: Greathouse





This is what they are saying -

a reply to: Xcathdra

I Have one better this wad played by the egyptians on a visit by Putin. It's Russia's national anthem I think. Putin almost looks like he's going to cry guess he is tone deaf??

a reply to: dragonridr

I saw that.. there was speculation it was done intentionally although I have yet to see confirmation on that.

So when this report comes out and if it says Russia / Rebels are to blame what do you think the reaction will be?

ETA - sent you a pm

Looks like Russia got caught lying again. It also has implications for the drivel in the op thread -

MH17 crash: Russian challenge to rebel Buk missile theory

Specifically -

"It was a Buk-M1," announced Novaya Gazeta, considered one of the few independent media publications left in Russia.

The newspaper behind the sensational headline says it obtained a confidential, anonymous report by a group of Russian military specialists, including those working for the top secret company that produces surface-to-air missiles such as the Buk.

Two Russian-based, independent military experts, Pavel Felgenhauer and Vadim Lukashevich, have told the BBC the credibility of the leaked report is questionable because it is anonymous and its source has not been revealed.

Novaya Gazeta's deputy editor Sergey Sokolov told the BBC that he did not know the names of military experts who worked on the report but he was familiar with their company.

Mr Sokolov pointed out that the newspaper was given access to the report on condition of anonymity, and it considered it important to pass it on to the public.

Ironic -

Whatever the truth about the report, it is not the only new information to emerge about MH17, all apparently with the aim of helping investigators get to the facts.

Last week, pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine presented a map, purportedly found in a basement in Donetsk, that showed where Ukrainian army divisions were stationed, apparently with Buk missile launchers.

And there were more revelations to come from the rebels on Wednesday.

Leading Donetsk official Andrey Purgin alleged that flight MH17 was illegally switched from an air traffic controller in Kiev to another further east who changed the plane's course toward an area with Ukrainian Buk missile launchers.

Mr Purgin said he had passed all his information to international investigators in the Netherlands.

The Dutch Safety Board will present its findings by October 2015.

The moment Russia comes out in favor of the BUK we get the anonymous experts. Now we have the rebel leadership finding evidence, like maps of Ukraine troops in the area at the time in addition documentation they had a buk with them (which were found in a basement).


I agree with the comments in the article about Russia realizing no one is buying the "smoke and mirrors and lies" anymore and that the end of this is near. It looks like Russia is going to desperately try and blame Ukraine now.

Noting like Putin giving 30 different explanations of what occurred while thinking people wont know he is giving conflicting info. With this level of incompetence its no wonder why the USSR collapsed into a massive pile of hippo poo.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Looks like Russia got caught lying again. It also has implications for the drivel in the op thread -

MH17 crash: Russian challenge to rebel Buk missile theory

Specifically -

"It was a Buk-M1," announced Novaya Gazeta, considered one of the few independent media publications left in Russia.

The newspaper behind the sensational headline says it obtained a confidential, anonymous report by a group of Russian military specialists, including those working for the top secret company that produces surface-to-air missiles such as the Buk.

Two Russian-based, independent military experts, Pavel Felgenhauer and Vadim Lukashevich, have told the BBC the credibility of the leaked report is questionable because it is anonymous and its source has not been revealed.

Novaya Gazeta's deputy editor Sergey Sokolov told the BBC that he did not know the names of military experts who worked on the report but he was familiar with their company.

Mr Sokolov pointed out that the newspaper was given access to the report on condition of anonymity, and it considered it important to pass it on to the public.

Ironic -

Whatever the truth about the report, it is not the only new information to emerge about MH17, all apparently with the aim of helping investigators get to the facts.

Last week, pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine presented a map, purportedly found in a basement in Donetsk, that showed where Ukrainian army divisions were stationed, apparently with Buk missile launchers.

And there were more revelations to come from the rebels on Wednesday.

Leading Donetsk official Andrey Purgin alleged that flight MH17 was illegally switched from an air traffic controller in Kiev to another further east who changed the plane's course toward an area with Ukrainian Buk missile launchers.

Mr Purgin said he had passed all his information to international investigators in the Netherlands.

The Dutch Safety Board will present its findings by October 2015.

The moment Russia comes out in favor of the BUK we get the anonymous experts. Now we have the rebel leadership finding evidence, like maps of Ukraine troops in the area at the time in addition documentation they had a buk with them (which were found in a basement).


I agree with the comments in the article about Russia realizing no one is buying the "smoke and mirrors and lies" anymore and that the end of this is near. It looks like Russia is going to desperately try and blame Ukraine now.

Noting like Putin giving 30 different explanations of what occurred while thinking people wont know he is giving conflicting info. With this level of incompetence its no wonder why the USSR collapsed into a massive pile of hippo poo.

Number 1 rule of propaganda when you can't hide the truth bury it in disinformation and lies. Makes it harder to find If you have to sort through all the garbage claims. Russian media has put out so many false claims it really is getting hard to keep up. Funny part is they were scrwaming all along western media is ignoring there plane theory saying ot was a plot to make Russia look bad only to decide themselves it coylsbt hold up.As far as egypt doing it on purpose I don't know but Putin looked like he was about to blow a gasket. Lol