36,000 baseball fans penned in the stadium in Baltimore as Freddie Gray protests turned violent

originally posted by: yuppa
what ever happenned to shooting violent rioters? they are a danger and can be legally killed.

I disagree.
They cannot be "legally killed" because all basic Human Rights laws dictate that property is not worth more than Human life.

People can be killed in self-defense, and when those people threaten the safety and lives of others. Smashing a window and stealing some smokes is NOT reason to kill and it never will be in any civilized society.

If someone is in that building when that happens then they have a right to use force in self defense, because they have reason to believe their life is in danger. If the building is empty the only thing at risk is property, and Human life always trumps property.

Force can be used, non-lethal rounds and so on, and I expect that to be the case if this happens again.

"A riot is the language of the unheard." - Martin Luther King

A system that fails and is violent and slanted, deserves no respect.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals


I was taught that is a "tantrum", infantile behavior appropriate for 4 year olds.
Psychologists will tell you it is an attention getting behavior without the condescending age implication.
IMO it's the result of not having the skills to express yourself in a constructive fashion.
Not surprising given how many people still graduate school and cannot read, write or express themselves creatively.
Any animal trapped in a cage too small will lash out in any way they can, even going so far as to chew their own limbs off.
In the case of people it matters not the actual size of the cage only their perception of it.

The economy is a shambles and our country is at eternal war.
People have lost hope in everything - their economic futures, chance for advancement, their basic institutions.

People that have the least to lose are the most likely to engage in rioting.

Our country has a long way to go yet it seems.

America was in a much worse economic, educational and social state during the depression of the 30's.

I'm sorry, I'll ask as I don't know as it's a period of time i'm not familiar with or have studied -

Did any of this # like burning and looting stores and rioting happen once a week back then?

If it didn't, we must come to the conclusion that the economic and educational state of the country cannot be blamed for whats happening.

So, we have to look for someone or something else to point the finger of blame at.

Personally, I put this down to the fact that -

SOME people like to do this crap, they love to burn others proprty because it's not theirs, and they're not prepared to work to get it either, it's far more easy sat at home drinking "gin and juice" and being a baby daddy.

SOME people love to raid and burn convenience and electronic stores, so they eat and smoke free for a while and have a new TV every six months.

I don't believe MLK would have wanted this, not this way.

originally posted by: Kram09
"A riot is the language of the unheard." - Martin Luther King

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar,
but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
Through violence you may murder the hater,
but you do not murder hate.
In fact, violence merely increases hate.
So it goes.
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

originally posted by: Kali74
A system that fails and is violent and slanted, deserves no respect.

Lets NOT blame "the system" for once.

Everyone blames the system for whats happening, lets NOT blame the system for once, lets blame those who burn cars and loot stores and stone the cops.

There are millions of decent, hard working black Americans who are just as equally disgusted and outraged by the events of the last few months, but they don't go out and riot, loot, burn and steal, using their colour as an excuse for their actions.

Why? Because they know it's not right. Thay know it's not justifiable. They rise above it all, for they are decent, normal people, soldiers, doctors, nurses, factory workers, lawyers etc.

These people are products of the same system that everyone loves to blame for whats happening today, and will without doubt happen tommorow.

originally posted by: hotel1
Forgive me I am not familiar with this case. On suspicion of, or on a charge of what crime was Gray arrested?

He was arrested because when he saw the cops, he ran, when the cops caught up with him, he had a switchblade in his pocket. They put him facedown, arms and legs locked in a crab like position behind him, on the floor of the paddy wagon, with no seatbelt. They stopped half way to the station to reposition him, again face down on the floor, no seatbelt (against regulations), then stopped again to get paramedics. Apparently Gray was screaming in pain during the arrest, for an entire hour in the wagon, being moved around during the ride, it took over an hour to call paramedics, by then over 80% of his spine had separated from his neck. He went into a coma and within a week he passed away.

Source

a reply to: andy1972

Ignoring a broken system will do nothing but see these types of things happening with more frequency. You can stick your head in the sand, I choose not to.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: andy1972

Ignoring a broken system will do nothing but see these types of things happening with more frequency. You can stick your head in the sand, I choose not to.

Did the system make him carry a switchblade ?

Did the system tell him to run ?

If he hadn't have been carrying the knife and he hadn't run..he'd be alive today (or maybe not, knowing how things happen in "da hood".)

Cause and effect.

originally posted by: yuppa
what ever happenned to shooting violent rioters? they are a danger and can be legally killed.

No, they only shoot non-violent white college protesters. See Kent State. Since then, 40 years ago, they're hesitant to shoot the most violent protesters, those thugs that injure and destroy property.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Smashing a window and stealing some smokes is NOT reason to kill and it never will be in any civilized society.

Destruction of property and theft are not civilized behaviors. If someone broke into my home or my business, I wouldn't hesitate to kill them.


I agree with the sentiment regarding police corruption, but local businesses and private property have nothing to do with that. Burn down a state building, or a police department, but leave local businesses alone.

"the government is oppressing us so let's destroy our local communities"

a reply to: Rocker2013

Human life always trumps property

No.

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: hotel1
Forgive me I am not familiar with this case. On suspicion of, or on a charge of what crime was Gray arrested?

He was arrested because when he saw the cops, he ran, when the cops caught up with him, he had a switchblade in his pocket. They put him facedown, arms and legs locked in a crab like position behind him, on the floor of the paddy wagon, with no seatbelt. They stopped half way to the station to reposition him, again face down on the floor, no seatbelt (against regulations), then stopped again to get paramedics. Apparently Gray was screaming in pain during the arrest, for an entire hour in the wagon, being moved around during the ride, it took over an hour to call paramedics, by then over 80% of his spine had separated from his neck. He went into a coma and within a week he passed away.

Source

Thank you. I was able to find out just about everything that happened after the arrest but I could not find anything anywhere about what lead to the arrest. It seems Gray was known to police for previous drug offences and at the time of the arrest was in possession of a switchblade.

One article mentions some of the officers involved are members of a police fraternity lodge and a lawyer affiliated to the organisation is involved in proceedings. Make of all that what you will.

originally posted by: Kali74
A system that fails and is violent and slanted, deserves no respect.

"The police are oppressing us, quickly, let us go destroy unrelated people's property"

Does that really make any sense?

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: hotel1
Forgive me I am not familiar with this case. On suspicion of, or on a charge of what crime was Gray arrested?

He was arrested because when he saw the cops, he ran, when the cops caught up with him, he had a switchblade in his pocket. They put him facedown, arms and legs locked in a crab like position behind him, on the floor of the paddy wagon, with no seatbelt. They stopped half way to the station to reposition him, again face down on the floor, no seatbelt (against regulations), then stopped again to get paramedics. Apparently Gray was screaming in pain during the arrest, for an entire hour in the wagon, being moved around during the ride, it took over an hour to call paramedics, by then over 80% of his spine had separated from his neck. He went into a coma and within a week he passed away.

Source

Why did he run to begin with? Not saying the cops were innocent, far from it. They should be held accountable and running from the police shouldn't result in a death sentence. That being said, three of the more recent deaths by cop that have been in the news have been a result of the victim running away. Me thinks if a cop tells you to stay put and if you're not guilty of something, maybe you should just do what the cop says. So the thugs are doing to others what they are protesting about, injuring innocent people.

As a libertarian, I think that citizens should be able to run without being arrested.
I think that carrying a switchblade should not be illegal. If you are not threatening or stabbing/cutting someone else, what is the problem?

Now, let us address the issue of looting. It is going on in Baltimore. There are YouTube videos of it available to watch. Yet I haven't heard about it on the MSM. The looting needs to stop. There is no excuse for that.

originally posted by: hotel1
Thank you. I was able to find out just about everything that happened after the arrest but I could not find anything anywhere about what lead to the arrest. It seems Gray was known to police for previous drug offences and at the time of the arrest was in possession of a switchblade.

One article mentions some of the officers involved are members of a police fraternity lodge and a lawyer affiliated to the organisation is involved in proceedings. Make of all that what you will.

Whether he was known to cops prior to this incident, or not, the sad thing is, his crime didn't amount to the death penalty, which was what he was given, when all is said and done.

originally posted by: UnBreakable


Why did he run to begin with? Not saying the cops were innocent, far from it. They should be held accountable and running from the police shouldn't result in a death sentence. That being said, three of the more recent deaths by cop that have been in the news have been a result of the victim running away. Me thinks if a cop tells you to stay put and if you're not guilty of something, maybe you should just do what the cop says. So the thugs are doing to others what they are protesting about, injuring innocent people.

Should he have ran? Probably not. Does it make a difference now? No. No matter what his crime what, it did NOT amount to the death penalty, which was the sentence those cops handed down. Let's face it.

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: hotel1
Thank you. I was able to find out just about everything that happened after the arrest but I could not find anything anywhere about what lead to the arrest. It seems Gray was known to police for previous drug offences and at the time of the arrest was in possession of a switchblade.

One article mentions some of the officers involved are members of a police fraternity lodge and a lawyer affiliated to the organisation is involved in proceedings. Make of all that what you will.

Whether he was known to cops prior to this incident, or not, the sad thing is, his crime didn't amount to the death penalty, which was what he was given, when all is said and done.

I never suggested he deserved to die, I just wanted to know the whole story.

a reply to: andy1972

...but they don't go out and riot, loot, burn and steal, using their colour as an excuse for their actions.

You think they're rioting just because they can - and the excuse they use is their color?

Riots don't just happen