Alternative Survival, The better Option

Many of us have spent years Mastering our Survival Crafts and Contemplating all our options in any event. Most of us have really no clue what to do or where to go? especially with little or no experience and limited resources.

Ultimately the object of Survival is to Survive. But really the Quality of our Survival is Paramount, because the greater the struggle and hardship, the less likely we will even desire or have the will to Survive.

So, Now when considering options, all the essentials are nice to have. Unlimited fresh water, comfortable temperate climate, unlimited food resources, safety and security, entertainment and peace.

Living inside the continental borders of the US and Canada aren't the best options anymore, due to the current political environment and the lack of ease of evasion and escape if something does head quickly south...you just don't want to get caught in the middle of it, Regardless if you are prepared or not. All bad

Over the years i've had the ability at looking at this from literally every angle, and what i came up with was. Finding places on the earth that had pretty much everything that was required to feel comfortable. Somewhere relatively affordable to exist where i could easily make my way, "undetected" and somewhere small enough that i could travel everywhere i needed to go pretty much by bicycle or boat, thus eliminating the need to buy fuel and everything that goes with that concept of transportation and its upkeep.

What i found was the US Virgin Islands. Literally everything one needs is there, its owned by the United States. Tax Exempt on various things, Requires no Passport for US Citizens. You can have firearms and the weather remains temperate year around, with the abundance of fresh food and other unlimited resources

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St.Croix USVI is known as the Emerald of the Caribbean, although there are many places all over the planet one could Survive. This just happens to be cheap and easy to get to that's far enough away and in Paradise, How could you not want to Survive?

a reply to: SPECULUM

Interesting.


Possibly a good location in many scenarios. I like a little elevation as I am not fond of tsunami.

Now, can the island self-support on food? If not WROL could be very bad.

Crown Mountain (1,552 feet (473 m)) is located on the island of Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands and is the highest point of the United States Virgin Islands.


Another concern is tropical diseases. Any dengue fever and Malaria? That would be a show stopper right there. In a crisis situation, no more mosquito control and the ramifications of that alone would be devastating in such an environment.


According to the World Health Organization, dengue infects at least fifty million people a year. For the fortunate, a case of dengue resembles a mild form of influenza. But more than half a million people become seriously ill from the disease.

Many develop dengue shock syndrome or a hemorrhagic fever that leaves them vomiting and, often, bleeding from the nose, mouth, or skin. The pain can be so excruciating that the virus has a commonly invoked nickname: breakbone fever.

There is no vaccine or cure for dengue, or even a useful treatment.



I would just recommend checking out the "environmental hazards" as well as the local residents in the area you are looking at. There is some very nice territory in the Appalachians but the locals in some areas would thieve you bare in a heartbeat and don't like outsiders.

a reply to: SPECULUM

I completely disagree.

Personally, I think the harder it is to survive, the harder you'll fight to survive. Well, that's how it is for me.

I'm all good anyway, if society ever crashes, I'll just head inland. Hardly any people to compete with and I could easily survive off tubers, feral goat and kangaroo meat (although kangaroo's are hard to catch without a rifle). Either way, I could easily survive.

Heading to the tropics would probably be the worst thing to do, because everybody would go there if society ever crashed. You'd want to go where most people wouldn't think to go, imo.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

A good article on the subject:

The Fallacy of Bugging Out – Are You Prepared to Be a Refugee?

www.shtfplan.com...

Sure, there are always risks no matter where you go in the world, and in USVI there are mosquito viruses. just not as bad as other places, and not pandemic like many other places on the planet..You just have to be aware and always be prepared for whom ever your enemy is.

As far as everyone wanting to go to the islands in a bugout survival event. not everyone wants to leave their familiarity, so that's not going to be an issue either.

Too many Plus's outnumbering the minuses, makes this a viable solution.

Sitting still hold up in a defensive position, maintaining a perimeter and everything you've assembled to survive on, isn't a very good plan...Either someone will take it way from you, or you will run out and have to go search..Its better to stay on the move, always critiquing your strategy, as cheaply as you can get away with..In Paradise

I've vacationed to several islands in that region, to many people for a small area and you'll "own" where your at even less than in the states.

Great for vacation... Would even make my top 50 for a bug out/ride out the trouble spots.

a reply to: infolurker
Exactly. That's why you want to stay loose, experiment, live life where its comfortable and entertaining, and far enough away from the hornets nest, that you will be considered a "possible" after thought.

TSHTF Scenario Currently is a Real possibility, and if they lock down the US mainland...you will be Screwed

Better to be at a safe distance

originally posted by: SPECULUM
Many of us have spent years Mastering our Survival Crafts and Contemplating all our options in any event. Most of us have really no clue what to do or where to go? especially with little or no experience and limited resources.

Ultimately the object of Survival is to Survive. But really the Quality of our Survival is Paramount, because the greater the struggle and hardship, the less likely we will even desire or have the will to Survive

Another place you might like to consider is Norfolk Island. Its owned/controlled/supported by Australia, English speaking and for intends and purposes is first world. Only a few hundred people there (I think). The natives are decedents of Captain Cook. its on the Topic of Capricorn. The climate does get stinking hot and not too cold in winter.

Dunno anything about housing or prices. Another tropical place to consider is Tonga or the Schellyes or even Madagascar.

Come to that even the east coast of Australia would be OK. We too will be joining the NWO but I suspect it will be milder form of than you will get in the US. We don't have the extremist attitudes that you Americans have. There are no guns here to speak of which is both good and bad.

it seems that we are also lucky in that we are geologically more stable as well, or are supposed to be.

Anyone wanting to bug out on a tropical island should read Thor Heyerdahl's Fatu Hiva.

en.wikipedia.org...(book)

And definitely watch this:


I am not saying it cant be done but beware of all sorts of parasitical infections. We seem to be well aware of bacterial and viral infections now days but because we live in sanitized world parasites arent a big problem. Even eating Kangaroo is fraught with dangers, any bush meat is.

years ago i did some research on the potential problem areas in the case of various kinds of disasters.

based on natural disasters involving water only, including floods and tsunamis, anywhere near large bodies of water and/or low elevations, was bad.

based on natural disasters involving water and wind, such as hurricanes, tropical storms or typhoons, anywhere near large bodies of water was bad.

based on natural disasters involving wind, such as tornadoes, anywhere in high elevations and flat lands without underground storm shelters, was bad.

based on natural disasters such as natural damage to nuclear plants, anywhere downwind from a nuclear plant was bad.

based on natural disasters involving earthquakes, anywhere in an earthquake zone with active fault lines, was bad.

based on natural disasters involving the sun going bonkers, anywhere above ground was bad.

based on natural disasters involving volcanoes, anywhere on a coastline or in a 200 mile radius up or downwind from a volcano, was bad.

based on manmade disasters such as war/civil war/economy completely crashing, anywhere near a city was bad.

so i went over a map of the usa, and there's only like one area that seems to dodge most of those bullets, but it's in a remote, snake infested, too hot and dry in the summer, too cold in the winter, area of northern nevada along the border, situated about center, not too far east or west. there are abandoned ghost towns up there but most do not have adequate water supplies and may have drug cartels using them by now. since it's the high desert, you're gonna have some snow melt in the spring, but otherwise, water is gonna be the big problem. i think there's like one river anywhere in that area and i'm not sure if its even remotely safe to drink. there are cave systems along the mountain walls, but some of them are full of bat guano and some nasty critters you wouldn't want to encounter in a bug out scenario.

deserts pose the problem of various types of extremely poisonous insects, such as scorpions and black widows, and snakes, like the rattler, you do not want to get bit by, ever.

tropics have a whole host of poisonous insects, poisonous snakes and poisonous amphibians.

living on islands is not the best idea ever, as most islands are the tops of old volcanoes and land masses created by the sudden up thrust of the ocean floor, which means the area may be prone to nasty seismic stuff.

a whole list of ghost towns in nothern nevada
www.ghosttowns.com...

a reply to: SPECULUM

What makes me think this topic was inspired from the topic of mine you responded to? haha

I'd have to agree with Undo on this. Tropics has a host of issues that would be much easier to deal with inland. Undo listed those reasons pretty well I'd say.

I would also add that tropics breed infection, disease and other medical related issues far easier than that of a cooler, temperate area.

Not to mention the possibility of rising water levels within our lifetime (although I suppose that concept is subjective to what individuals believe in accordance to fluctuating global temperatures)

When it comes to tropics, it doesn't matter how much fresh water you have, because they are almost exclusively infested with "bugs"/bacteria that can kill a person simply by drinking it, or at the very least give you the worst diarrhea you've ever had (which can also kill you).

The main issue I have with islands is that they are easy to takeover, and they have a very limited supply of resources in comparison to inland areas.

I'm pretty sure every tropical paradise will be guarded and kept as a personal playground for the elites if the SHTF. They still demand their vacation comforts regardless of whether the rest of the world is going tits up.

The total combined UK armed forces and police number just over Two hundred thousand. Using the calculation that it takes a battalion to take and hold a village the total operation of the UK establishment would struggle to successfully take and hold London, let alone the rest of the country. Any invading force would need literally millions of troops/police to successfully subdue the entire population of Great Britain.

It is because of these numbers and the fact that I live in a rural area that in a SHTF situation I would stay put. My location is hard to see from the air and nearby roads. It has many natural clean water springs, on site food sources and could be successfully defended against marauding bandits with the available manpower and assets already in place.

In a True SHTF Scenario your chances of Survival will be slim. Unless you are Aboriginal and live your every waking moment in Survival mode, you really don't have the skills to elude Drones, satellites and ground forces, and feed yourself.

The farther you place yourself away from Conflict, out of reach of those who want to control you, the greater chance you will have.

Moving to the Islands gives you this distance, with unlimited fresh food and freedom to move about, By Boat, By plane, or by any means you are able.

Natural disasters are the least of your worries, and should be, especially where its uncommon

originally posted by: SPECULUM
...you really don't have the skills to elude Drones, satellites and ground forces, and feed yourself.

Why would drones scope out the entire country? they wouldn't they'd go after previously (or currently) populated areas like cities and towns because that's where most people would bunker down.

Unless you're some kind of major fugitive, you're not going to have drones and satellites looking for you. Furthermore, you're not going to have military looking for people way out in the wilderness.

Lastly, the subject of feeding yourself applies to any situation (that includes yours by the way).

Conversely, what do you think would be easier for a military force, satellite or drones to achieve. Finding a person/people on a small island, or finding a person/people in the middle of the wilderness in some of the largest countries in the world?

In the US 47% of the country is unpopulated. Despite the 319 million that reside there.

I know more about Canada than the US, so comparatively: Nearly 90% of Canada is unpopulated. Over 50% of that land is blanketed with rich forested areas. 7% of Canada is covered with freshwater lakes (that's over 2 million lakes). 4 out of 5 of those lakes are the great lakes.

If you want to talk "unlimited" and "safe, Canada is the place to go.

originally posted by: SPECULUM
The farther you place yourself away from Conflict, out of reach of those who want to control you, the greater chance you will have.

Yes, I agree. But it's not merely about getting away from the conflict, it's about making yourself difficult to get to. Lets say SHTF and a bunch of tourists and USVI natives decide to do exactly what your plan is and jump on another one of their islands? All it would take is a quick sweep of the (relatively small) islands to discover these little pocketed micro populations of people. You have an extremely limited amount of area to run, to hide, and to live, on an island.

originally posted by: SPECULUM
Moving to the Islands gives you this distance, with unlimited fresh food and freedom to move about, By Boat, By plane, or by any means you are able. Natural disasters are the least of your worries, and should be, especially where its uncommon

Uh, no... Natural disasters are your main concern if you plan on staying there for any given amount of time. Tropics, low elevation areas are prone to virtually everything other than tornadoes. Disease breads like mad. Killer bacteria is in everything. Poisonous animals and toxic plants are beyond everywhere. I know this because I've spent months in several jungles in poor conditions working with conservation groups. You get a cut, and it can get so seriously infected within minutes that your life is on the line. If not simply your limbs.

The thought of living on an island by yourself is incredibly romantic and dream-worthy. The fact is, that is one of the worst places you can go if you plan on living the rest of your life there. That is, of course, if you're a native of the land.

a reply to: Ghost147

In Canada the Weather is your Enemy and its a Partner of The US.

Its simple locking down Cities and Highways...Just cutting off Fuel ends the flow of products.

Their focus will be scanning in remote areas where masses of Survivalists/Patriots will make attempts to hold positions

In the Cities and Suburb neighborhoods they will go door by door and disarm the public

In all Seriousness, only the Continental US and Canadian borders are they going to take any interest in, as its all connected Strategically. In the event any Nuclear Exchange were to occur it wouldn't be anywhere near the Virgin Islands..British, American or Otherwise ...Lol

Its true one could hold out for a while in the Vast Wilderness if they had it together, But chances are if they don't have an organization of Support...They wont

In the islands you can jump in the water and grab Lobster and fish for a variety...YEAR ROUND

With a boat you can travel the rest of the world, and its easier to achieve if you are already there



Personally i'm not concerned with tropical diseases in St Croix. its not like there isn't life support there. Plus my Childhood friends have lived there for years, and are feeding me details in real time Christensted is a Fairly Mellow place to hang

Quality of life is exactly why I plan to bug in.

My preps aren't just for the end of days, but each is designed to have some real world NOW benefit as well.
Also, I have an eye out for emergencies that are temporary in nature, like bad weather, or a power outage, etc.

It's also about becoming more self-sufficient, as well as more economical. (i.e. we go through a lot of eggs, but since getting chickens, haven't bought eggs in a long time, and a bag of feed is way less than the eggs we'd go through in the same time). Buying in bulk to stockpile, but also save money through quantity, etc.

Eventually, we'll have free fruit and veggies too (just costing us some labor and minimal supplies).