Large Scale Study Fails to Find Correlation Between MMR Vaccine and Autism (Again)

a reply to: boymonkey74

What type of sensory functions does he live in? for example I look after a guy who gets his stimulus and his world surroundings by touch he is hyper sensitive to touch and interacts with the world through touch.
Another it is a combination of touch and smell, is your brother like any of my guys?.

He has sight, touch/feeling ... smell yes ... He has no speech but makes sounds when he is happy ... As regards hearing ... he has been diagnosed as deaf ... But recently his Carer has told us she believes he does hear as he responds to her when she speaks ... He loves just watching people and things and is very happy say sitting on a beach or outside on a nice day and does let you know by grabbing your hand and leading you to you things ... He can sign and understand signing but chooses to not use it ...

He does grab and nip and throw things ... he hates clutter ... I believe he is very capable in some ways ... but he has had terrible formative years before care in the community came to be ...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Are you prepared to accept that maybe it happened in the womb?

I would be prepared but if so I can not explain why he was or appeared to be perfectly normal until the time of the events I have mentioned ... He was walking and talking and then suddenly regressed ... but yes I am open to any suggestions and Thank you for your response

a reply to: artistpoet

Sounds like he is having a decent time .I sure jope he is in a good place.
I see people with autism as just part of the human condition just like people born with other conditions just up to us as a society to give them every freedom they can have and give them the choice in as much to do with their own lives.
It may not be the sound he is responding to it may be the vibration in the air....sounds funny but some of my guys have super powers lol. They can pick up on different things than us...I would love to be in their heads sometimes when they are happy .

a reply to: boymonkey74

Yes Tony my brother is in a great place with great people ... A lovely house and gardens ... His personal Carer is a fantastic person who knows him better than any so all is good

My Mother is 85 now ... My Father died this year and so I feel it is up to me to be there for him to ensure his welfare for the future ... But like I say I could not wish for him to be in a better place or better people ... I am very grateful to those who care for him

Tony has his income in fact he far better off financially than me ... he can go on holidays any time he wishes to wherever but loves his own place and room and will refuse to sleep elsewhere

Lol Once he went camping with the house folk ... big mistake he spent all night stood upright in the tent refusing to sleep

Anyway I guess I am far off topic now apart from describing my brother's "Autism"
Perhaps I have always sought answer and looked for something or someone to blame

All I can do is accept it is what is and Tony is in the best place and cared for

a reply to: artistpoet

I bet he improves the lives of all around him .
Good for you I agree don't look to blame things happen and we may never know why.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I bet he improves the lives of all around him .
Good for you I agree don't look to blame things happen and we may never know why.

Yes he does ... he is well loved ... quite a character
Re: Super Powers ... he has often amazed people with his lightening quick dexterity
You are right of course ... thanks ... much appreciated

a reply to: artistpoet

Do you want suggestions, or do you want someone to agree with your statement: "I say he was brain damaged by the medical profession"?

Your posting suggests the latter. It is only your opinion that the medical profession caused your brother's alleged brain damage. You've presented nothing to effectively link vaccinations (of any sort) to brain damage - as mentioned, numerously, you've only presented your anecdotes.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Do you want suggestions, or do you want someone to agree with your statement: "I say he was brain damaged by the medical profession"?

Your posting suggests the latter. It is only your opinion that the medical profession caused your brother's alleged brain damage. You've presented nothing to effectively link vaccinations (of any sort) to brain damage - as mentioned, numerously, you've only presented your anecdotes.

I wonder what you might conclude was the cause of his regression in my shoes ... to be honest I am past caring now and have come to the conclusion that what occurred can not be changed ... and to do my best by my brother

What's the catalyst for autism? Is it a combo platter of various things introduced into our society to thin out the herd? I don't know for sure and people and experts can be bought to say anything they want. It is kind of a coincidence that the autism numbers jumped to epidemic levels since the introduction of that vaccine. I don't know for sure but I'll steer away from it myself.

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

What's the catalyst for autism?

That is the Big question so far unanswered satisfactory.

Is it a combo platter of various things introduced into our society to thin out the herd?

Eugenics is a historical fact and the same mindset still exists in a minority of people today some very powerful and influential ... and plain hurting and demoralising a people is also a fact
During the Vietnam War such weapons were used ... that were designed to cripple rather than kill people ... to demoralise.

I am not saying this is the case by any means regarding Autism and vaccines ... quite simply I am just not sure.

people and experts can be bought to say anything they want.

Aint that the truth ... also those who speak up for truth can be silenced and ridiculed.

It is kind of a coincidence that the autism numbers jumped to epidemic levels since the introduction of that vaccine.

Autism is blanket term that covers so many conditions and correlates them under one label
But it is noticeable that more and more people are affected by something

To see such a large number of people affected these days is new thing ... You would understand this if you had lived long enough ... Though Autism now covers a wider spectrum it does not account for the growing numbers of those affected the same applies obesity ... it is an epidemic where as such a condition was so rarely seen ... Again if you have lived long enough it is obvious ask any old timer about how such things were back in their youth.

I don't know for sure but I'll steer away from it myself

I choose no vaccinations for myself but that is my choice and also I respect the choice of the others if they wish to vaccinate.

However Vaccinations are not 100 per cent safe ... nor is non vaccination ... it is a matter of choice

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: boymonkey74

en.wikipedia.org...

Interesting that rates of autism have continued to increase in Japan and they discontinued it some time ago..

I'm also interested to know what they blamed Autism on before the MMR vaccination? Autism isn't some "new" disease. It was just used to cover a broad area of illnesses.

Just in case people aren't swayed by the latest study showing no connection between vaccines and autism here's another hundred or so...

justthevax.blogspot.co.uk...

Remember, belief is one thing, knowledge is another.
If you believe that vaccines cause autism you have to ask yourself why you do as there's no rational reason to.
Certainly not one based upon scientific evidence anyway.

This is to tobacco science. The children in the study were fully vaccinated and one sibling did not receive the full battery of MMR vaccines. Considering the confounding factors for receiving a full battery of vaccinations up to the time of the study it is a bit like a tobacco company testing for lung cancer by testing brand x with brand y. Brand x smokes 19 cigarettes and brand y smokes 20. If no difference between brand x and brand y all is declared safe. However there was never a study that compared brand x with non smokers. These continuous studies that ignore the unvaccinated populations as a control group are not scientific and give no confidence to parents. Yes it may not be the MMR it could be another vaccine or it could be a combination of all the vaccines. Until we have a comparison with unvaccinated populations we will never know. There is a continual REFUSAL to do it. WHY?
a reply to: artistpoet

a reply to: Judyloo

Thanks for your post

Yes it would be interesting to study the illnesses in general ... including Autism against those who were vaccinated and those were not ...

But I have a great deal of scepticism regarding the biased nature of such things.

Therefore any medical scientist/s should be free of the burden of outside funding
In other words ... Independent
Such surveys unfortunately would be banished to sidelines by established theory

Remember even Pier reviewed studies can be biased based on the fundamental flaw in All Human Beings ... having biases

A Scientist without bias is a True Scientist

As for vaccinations ... I had them forced on to me as a child ... Now I would never have any form of vaccine and resist any who tried to force any upon me .

I think the only time I would accept anything injecting in to me ... would perhaps be morphine if I was in great pain.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: camain

Looks like confirmation bias to me.

Parents/people do have some keen sense of when something is wrong or changes. My neighbors years ago watched their daughter change overnight after the vaccine. She too got a terrible fever, which she'd suffered in previous shots too, just not as bad. Days later not the same child....autistic.

Why do you want to believe big pharma, the ones that are multi billionaires over these products? How hard is it to believe that they will cover up and pass laws to protect their business at ALL COSTS? They are protected from lawsuits for damage, what does that tell you? How about all the other things they do including getting natural products made illegal, all the while their products come with a long list of sometimes deadly side effects?

I just can't believe people so whole-heartedly follow the party line! What have we all learned over the years? Nature knows best, in most ways. We just have to know which part of nature is the fix. margarine is good, now its bad. Eggs bad now good, low fat now high good fat.....

a reply to: SunnyDee

It's already been linked on this thread that late on-set autism is an actual thing that has been falsely correlated with the MMR vaccine.

Why are you letting personal anecdotal evidence trump the scientific study reported in the OP?

originally posted by: Judyloo
This is to tobacco science. The children in the study were fully vaccinated and one sibling did not receive the full battery of MMR vaccines. Considering the confounding factors for receiving a full battery of vaccinations up to the time of the study it is a bit like a tobacco company testing for lung cancer by testing brand x with brand y. Brand x smokes 19 cigarettes and brand y smokes 20. If no difference between brand x and brand y all is declared safe. However there was never a study that compared brand x with non smokers. These continuous studies that ignore the unvaccinated populations as a control group are not scientific and give no confidence to parents. Yes it may not be the MMR it could be another vaccine or it could be a combination of all the vaccines. Until we have a comparison with unvaccinated populations we will never know. There is a continual REFUSAL to do it. WHY?
a reply to: artistpoet

No there isn't.
www.tandfonline.com...

There seems to be a "continual REFUSAL" to accept the science though.
WHY?

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: GetHyped

IMPORTANCE
Despite research showing no link between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism spectrum disorders (ASD), beliefs that the vaccine causes autism persist, leading to lower vaccination levels. Parents who already have a child with ASD may be especially wary of vaccinations.

This is slanted, an outright lie and additional misinformation all in one. Stop reading here. You know the result and whom sponsored the science. But if you insist on being a wild-eyed non-believer, read on.

86 research papers indicating links between one or more vaccine components and ASD

But back to this OP....
so the "no vaccine" groups are in the denominator of this relation:

• A relative risk of 1 means there is no difference in risk between the two groups.
• An RR of < 1 means the event is less likely to occur in the experimental group than in the control group.
• An RR of > 1 means the event is more likely to occur in the experimental group than in the control group

The RR for no difference should be very close to 1 in order to make the claim there is no difference.

For children with older siblings with ASD, at age 2, the adjusted relative risk (RR) of ASD for 1 dose of MMR vaccine vs no vaccine was 0.76 (95% CI, 0.49-1.18; P = .22), and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses compared with no vaccine was 0.56 (95% CI, 0.31-1.01; P = .052).

So this statistic seems to indicate that he MMR is a somewhat weak preventative measure against ASD. Hmmm. Maybe the Mr. Hype can add something here? Is the vax group in the denominator?

For children whose older siblings did not have ASD, at age 2, the adjusted RR of ASD for 1 dose was 0.91 (95% CI, 0.67-1.20; P = .50) and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses was 1.12 (95% CI, 0.78-1.59; P = .55).

This statistically looks like no diff between the experiment and control. I wonder, when they state "Adjusted RR" where and how is this adjustment made? To say it made no difference at any age isn't statistically supported the RR's did change by a significant amount. The assertion of no diff between two samples only seems to apply solidly to the group with older sibs without ASD. When sibs are diagnosed, the doses did make a statistical difference although I can't be sure which set is in the denominator of the ratio.

I think there are many games to be played here with the diagnosis side of it. Dr.s generally say you can't diagnose ASD reliably until the age of 3. And It seems there are much less biased ways of exploring what may be causing the epidemic of childhood immune dysfunction than this. You can tell this is goalseeked with commercial/political objectives.

It doesn't seem that strong but I'll keep an eye out for the defense by Mr. Hype.

Hilariously from the 'study':

Children with an older sibling with only 1 claim with an ASD diagnosis were excluded. Index children with only 1 claim with an ASD diagnosis were also excluded.

With no explanation on why...

originally posted by: Nodrak

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: GetHyped

IMPORTANCE
Despite research showing no link between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism spectrum disorders (ASD), beliefs that the vaccine causes autism persist, leading to lower vaccination levels. Parents who already have a child with ASD may be especially wary of vaccinations.

This is slanted, an outright lie and additional misinformation all in one. Stop reading here. You know the result and whom sponsored the science. But if you insist on being a wild-eyed non-believer, read on.

86 research papers indicating links between one or more vaccine components and ASD

But back to this OP....
so the "no vaccine" groups are in the denominator of this relation:

• A relative risk of 1 means there is no difference in risk between the two groups.
• An RR of < 1 means the event is less likely to occur in the experimental group than in the control group.
• An RR of > 1 means the event is more likely to occur in the experimental group than in the control group

The RR for no difference should be very close to 1 in order to make the claim there is no difference.

For children with older siblings with ASD, at age 2, the adjusted relative risk (RR) of ASD for 1 dose of MMR vaccine vs no vaccine was 0.76 (95% CI, 0.49-1.18; P = .22), and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses compared with no vaccine was 0.56 (95% CI, 0.31-1.01; P = .052).

So this statistic seems to indicate that he MMR is a somewhat weak preventative measure against ASD. Hmmm. Maybe the Mr. Hype can add something here? Is the vax group in the denominator?

For children whose older siblings did not have ASD, at age 2, the adjusted RR of ASD for 1 dose was 0.91 (95% CI, 0.67-1.20; P = .50) and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses was 1.12 (95% CI, 0.78-1.59; P = .55).

This statistically looks like no diff between the experiment and control. I wonder, when they state "Adjusted RR" where and how is this adjustment made? To say it made no difference at any age isn't statistically supported the RR's did change by a significant amount. The assertion of no diff between two samples only seems to apply solidly to the group with older sibs without ASD. When sibs are diagnosed, the doses did make a statistical difference although I can't be sure which set is in the denominator of the ratio.

I think there are many games to be played here with the diagnosis side of it. Dr.s generally say you can't diagnose ASD reliably until the age of 3. And It seems there are much less biased ways of exploring what may be causing the epidemic of childhood immune dysfunction than this. You can tell this is goalseeked with commercial/political objectives.

It doesn't seem that strong but I'll keep an eye out for the defense by Mr. Hype.

Hilariously from the 'study':

Children with an older sibling with only 1 claim with an ASD diagnosis were excluded. Index children with only 1 claim with an ASD diagnosis were also excluded.

With no explanation on why...

Hilariously (sarcasm), the explanation is in the Main Outcomes and Measures paragraph of the study.

"ASD status defined as 2 claims with a diagnosis code in any position for autistic disorder or other specified pervasive developmental disorder (PDD) including Asperger syndrome, or unspecified PDD (International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision, Clinical Modification 299.0x, 299.8x, 299.9x)."