Large Scale Study Fails to Find Correlation Between MMR Vaccine and Autism (Again)

Conclusions and Relevance

In this large sample of privately insured children with older siblings, receipt of the MMR vaccine was not associated with increased risk of ASD, regardless of whether older siblings had ASD. These findings indicate no harmful association between MMR vaccine receipt and ASD even among children already at higher risk for ASD.

jama.jamanetwork.com...

Yet again, another study rolls in debunking the MMR/autism myth. Of course, this won't change the minds of the anti-vaxxer true believers but those who enter a position absence of reason cannot be moved with reason.

a reply to: GetHyped

Or maybe someone who saw there baby girl change overnight after getting vaccinated can't be swayed by some jackass doing whatever theory using statistics a that can be swayed one way or another. Look let me be clear, most people aren't anti vac, their anti establishment trying to force or dictate what they believe on them. Further, while I consider myself anti vaccine in the sense I refuse to follow the pediatric outline for vaccination, I am not refusing vaccination. Trying to say every single kid is the same and will respond the same to a vaccine is ignorant at best, willfully dangerous at worst. There are numerous things that go into the vaccination arguement including environmental variables, immunitity levels and general health.

Im sure the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin recently diacovered by Catholic charities in tetnus vaccines in Africa (thats an infertiluty drug you know), nor the countless historically verfied cases of injecting various harmful agents into unsuspecting populations (think Guam etc..) doesnt have something to with the reasonable suspicion thats somethings not quite right with these things. Autism...heck we can link that to pesticides vaccines a feww big coporate products cant we now...only we dont own the media and nobody needs to rehash the same ol arguments so you can drive an agenda.to: GetHyped
Forgive my spelling...phone sigh

We have the same discussions every day.
MMR Autism
9/11 building 7
UFOS Government cover up
Pro-life pro-choice
Maybe I've just outgrown the site.

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

Im afraid I must agree. Its getting tiresome but thats the desire ... last one stating their prefered truth wins

a reply to: BlueJacket

It's actually a hormone produced during pregnancy. Early pregnancy tests are detecting this very hormone. Where did you get its a fertility drug?


en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
We have the same discussions every day.
MMR Autism
9/11 building 7
UFOS Government cover up
Pro-life pro-choice
Maybe I've just outgrown the site.

Life is circular at ATS, i take holidays and rotate my subforums to prevent myself catching something nasty

ETA: sorry OP. Thanks for posting for posterity. No surprise here but it may help some lone reader start to change their stance so more power to you

Yes some of us know things beyond Wikipedia. ..when I get home ill explain gonadotropic activity reply to: AutumnWitch657

a reply to: BlueJacket

This isn't wiki.
americanpregnancy.org...


Did find this. Didn't know.

www.drugs.com...

a reply to: BlueJacket

Oh and yes some of us know more but we don't try to make others feel stupid while relaying information. Don't bother with your "I'll explain it later" like I'm a child. I won't be back to this thread to ever read what you say.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: GetHyped

Or maybe someone who saw there baby girl change overnight after getting vaccinated can't be swayed by some jackass doing whatever theory using statistics a that can be swayed one way or another.

And how many people have seen that happen exactly?

I believe the study included 96,000 children -- that's a huge study.

From my experience, anti-vax people can't be swayed from their opinion, so arguing with them is pretty much useless.

For example, they'll probably claim if there isn't a link between vaccines and autism, why all the studies? Everything gets turned around and becomes part of the conspiracy.

a reply to: GetHyped

IMPORTANCE
Despite research showing no link between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism spectrum disorders (ASD), beliefs that the vaccine causes autism persist, leading to lower vaccination levels. Parents who already have a child with ASD may be especially wary of vaccinations.

This is slanted, an outright lie and additional misinformation all in one. Stop reading here. You know the result and whom sponsored the science. But if you insist on being a wild-eyed non-believer, read on.

86 research papers indicating links between one or more vaccine components and ASD

But back to this OP....
so the "no vaccine" groups are in the denominator of this relation:

• A relative risk of 1 means there is no difference in risk between the two groups.
• An RR of < 1 means the event is less likely to occur in the experimental group than in the control group.
• An RR of > 1 means the event is more likely to occur in the experimental group than in the control group

The RR for no difference should be very close to 1 in order to make the claim there is no difference.

For children with older siblings with ASD, at age 2, the adjusted relative risk (RR) of ASD for 1 dose of MMR vaccine vs no vaccine was 0.76 (95% CI, 0.49-1.18; P = .22), and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses compared with no vaccine was 0.56 (95% CI, 0.31-1.01; P = .052).

So this statistic seems to indicate that he MMR is a somewhat weak preventative measure against ASD. Hmmm. Maybe the Mr. Hype can add something here? Is the vax group in the denominator?

For children whose older siblings did not have ASD, at age 2, the adjusted RR of ASD for 1 dose was 0.91 (95% CI, 0.67-1.20; P = .50) and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses was 1.12 (95% CI, 0.78-1.59; P = .55).

This statistically looks like no diff between the experiment and control. I wonder, when they state "Adjusted RR" where and how is this adjustment made? To say it made no difference at any age isn't statistically supported the RR's did change by a significant amount. The assertion of no diff between two samples only seems to apply solidly to the group with older sibs without ASD. When sibs are diagnosed, the doses did make a statistical difference although I can't be sure which set is in the denominator of the ratio.

I think there are many games to be played here with the diagnosis side of it. Dr.s generally say you can't diagnose ASD reliably until the age of 3. And It seems there are much less biased ways of exploring what may be causing the epidemic of childhood immune dysfunction than this. You can tell this is goalseeked with commercial/political objectives.

It doesn't seem that strong but I'll keep an eye out for the defense by Mr. Hype.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I believe the study included 96,000 children -- that's a huge study.

From my experience, anti-vax people can't be swayed from their opinion, so arguing with them is pretty much useless.

For example, they'll probably claim if there isn't a link between vaccines and autism, why all the studies? Everything gets turned around and becomes part of the conspiracy.

Some will even read the study. Can you believe that? The statistical sample is 134, not 96,000
Of 95 727 children with older siblings, 994 (1.04%) were diagnosed with ASD and 1929 (2.01%) had an older sibling with ASD. Of those with older siblings with ASD, 134 (6.9%) had ASD, vs 860 (0.9%) children with unaffected siblings (P 

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have for one. My daughter was perfectly fine normal talking 3 yr old. Loved big puzzles and had started to read. Then we gave her a combo of mmr and a couple others. That night she had a fever, the next day she slept. We called the pediatrician and he said it was normal. Going forward, she didn't talk, she didn't read. We almost had her potty traine, that didn't happen till 5 years later. You tell any parent that went from a perfectly fine child to a screaming tantrum ing uncontrollable mass if they would do it again. She was diagnosed 3 months later. I give my ex-wife full credit for being a stay at home mom and working with my daughter. She spent hours researching years working with her and months fighting the state and school to get my daughter the help she needs. Looking back its a hell of a lot easier to just delay it 6 months or a yea. Spread them out. Simplify them, and make damn sure that the genetic as well as environmental factors and the actual vaccines are no longer an issue.

a reply to: camain

I'm sorry about their personal tragedy there but wouldn't it be more beneficial to discover what actually did cause whatever happened? With science you can't look for evidence to support the answer you already have in mind, and looking for verification that xyz caused ABC means you're overlooking all the other factors which may have been involved. I feel for the desire to understand the cause and have justice for whatever it is, but, ultimately, you can't choose what's responsible. And your example, without further information, merely feeds a fire in a line of thinking which has already been proven to cause damage.


I suppose you're not entertaining the possibility that the child was not influenced by external factors and would have been the same whether they were vaccinated or not? Just sounds like finding something to blame for an uncontrollable circumstance. With no evidence, there's no way to know either way. But autism happens. There is no causal relationship between it and vaccines, or anything else that medicine is currently aware of. Do you really feel that children should risk maiming and death to avoid autism? An autistic child is better than a dead child.

I think parents with autistic kids need and want a something that they can point a finger at. They NEED to know why their child has autism. They'll selectively read studies the way they want, to support the beliefs they already have.

It's not unlike having faith in a religion. An atheist usually can't convince a highly religious person that their faith is bogus.

One trillion studies done around the globe could all say that the MMR doesn't cause autism, yet the anti-vax people would still claim it does. Vaccinations make a convenient scapegoat that parents (a lot of stay at home mothers I've noticed from my own personal experience) can point to.

A conspiracy feels good to buy into. When we buy into a conspiracy, we feel as if we are beholden of knowledge that the masses aren't privy to. We feel "smarter" than other people, a bit more superior. We swagger around with a smarmy grin, self-assured in the fact that we know the actual "truth". Anything that doesn't fit into the conspiracy becomes part of the conspiracy -- for you see, the conspiracy isn't wrong, the uneducated masses are.

There are a lot of possible causes of Autism. If they are testing the vaccine alone without considering synergy being involved, then they are just wasting money. Mix two common things in a recipe and you can get sick. Mix two or three things in your body and it could lead to problems. With over fifty thousand approved chemicals in our food supply and multiple vaccines and medications out there, it will be nearly impossible to figure out why the Autism and many other diseases are increasing so drastically in this country. Look at all the chemicals they spray on the fields too. Look at all the plastic covering our foods.

We need to go back closer to nature, not hop towards unnatural things science is creating and selling to the public as safe under certain conditions.

a reply to: camain

Looks like confirmation bias to me.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

news.nationalgeographic.com...

It all started with bad science. The now-debunked theory that autism is caused by the common immunizations nearly all children receive beginning in infancy began with a fabricated piece of research, a 1998 study published—and later retracted—in the journal Lancet. In 2010, Great Britain stripped Andrew Wakefield, the lead author of the study, of his medical license. An investigation had deemed his research an elaborate fraud. But in those dozen years, fear of lifesaving immunizations took hold of millions of parents. Jenny McCarthy—former Playmate of the year, model, actress, and soon-to-be cohost of the television show The View—fueled parental fears. She built a movement around the flawed theory. McCarthy, who has an autistic son, wrote Louder Than Words: A Mother's Journey in Healing Autism, correlating the increase in childhood vaccinations with the rise in autism worldwide. "She is absolutely entitled to her opinion, but to say that it's fact when it's not fact is just wrong," says Glenn Braunstein, vice president of clinical innovation at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles. "It's one step down from yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater when there is no fire. It's fear-mongering."

www.immunize.org... here are 20 more that agree with the op and not you (PDF so slow bandwith beware)

justthevax.blogspot.com... blog site(lol i know one notch below wiki) but its the links contained there in that are the relevent portions to this discussion

1.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

2.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

3.www.bmj.com...

4.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

A leading virologist is calling on the scientific community to spend no more time investigating alleged links between the MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccine, inflammatory bowel disease, and autism after the publication last week of two further studies, which seemed to demolish the theory that vaccination increased the risk of the conditions. The studies—one published in the Lancet by a team from the Royal Free Hospital Medical School, London, the second in Current Problems in Pharmacovigilance from a specially convened working party of the Committee on Safety of Medicines—both found no evidence that the vaccine causes either autism or inflammatory bowel disease, which has been suggested as the link mechanism. In the Royal Free’s study, Brent Taylor, professor of community child health, and colleagues investigated 498 children with autism born since 1979 in the North Thames region. They found that the age at which autism was diagnosed was the same regardless of whether they had received the MMR vaccine before or after 18 months old or had never been vaccinated. There was no clustering of developmental regression after vaccination, and no more children in the group with autism had been immunised than in the general population of the region. The team said that, although the number of cases of autism had increased steadily since 1979, there was no sign of any steep rise coinciding with the introduction of the MMR vaccine in 1988. The Committee on the Safety of Medicines’ study examined medical records of 92 children with autism and 15 with Crohn’s disease; the records had been passed to the committee by a firm of solicitors. Evidence of autism before vaccination was found in 36 cases, and another 28 showed family history of the condition. Eight autistic children and four with Crohn’s disease seemed to have developed symptoms after MMR vaccination, but, the authors said, the small numbers and the fact that onset of autism frequently occurs around age 18 months meant that this is not enough to prove causation. Add these findings to those of last year’s Medical Research Council’s team of 37 experts who examined the issue and also concluded that no link existed, and, said Norman Begg, head of the Communicable Disease Surveillance Centre’s immunisation division, it is clear this issue must now be laid to rest. “These are important papers. They are further evidence that this vaccine causes neither autism nor inflammatory bowel disease,” he stated.

this one covers the IBS aspect as well as the alleged autism connection
many more peer reviewed links at the above main link

www.skepticalraptor.com...

However, it’s more than these vaccine deniers just cherry-pick bad studies. They ignore the vast weight of evidence of real science published in real journals. Not only do we lack evidence that vaccines cause autism, we have affirmative evidence that vaccines do not cause autism. Here’s a list 110 peer-reviewed articles, published in high impact factor journals, that document the lack of correlation (and therefore causation) between vaccines and autism.

and Re ginger taylor from your link (86 studies confriming a link to austisim) is hammered quite thoroughly by the author over at skepical raptor for what its worth to you

Ginger is pandering to her uneducated acolytes who don’t actually know how to read scientific articles. Lucky for humanity and the health of children who won’t have to suffer from vaccine preventable diseases, some of us know how to read and refute Ginger’s list of bogus studies. What’s particularly laughable is that she uses numerous citations from Lucija Tomljenovic and Christopher Shaw, both of whom could be generously described as real shills for the antivaccination movement. Very well paid shills in fact. There articles are based on ludicrous science, published in terrible open access, and some cases, cursory peer-reviewed journals. If these two antivaccine shills actually had real data, why isn’t it published in top notch journals that relish the publicity of cutting-edge science. Like Lancet. Or New England Journal of Medicine. I guess if you have bogus data published in bad journals, you get what you get. Right Ginger Taylor?

angryautie.wordpress.com... again goes to counter your link and in general most of the actual hard science on the matter and does a far better job of explaining it then i can.and as the link i posted goes through all 86(some are lumped together) of your cited claims and pretty much picks them appart with science going link by link and posting sources to almost excusivly peer reviewed papers and sources.

www.autismspeaks.org...

www.geneticliteracyproject.org...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

and as one of the only areas that have ever fully removed a type of vaccine over safty reasons (JAPAN) they would be a pretty good place to look to see if autisim rates would rise or fall with removal of MMR tripple shot vaccine(hint they rose by a good deal)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Abstract BACKGROUND: A causal relationship between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and occurrence of autism spectrum disorders (ASD) has been claimed, based on an increase in ASD in the USA and the UK after introduction of the MMR vaccine. However, the possibility that this increase is coincidental has not been eliminated. The unique circumstances of a Japanese MMR vaccination program provide an opportunity for comparison of ASD incidence before and after termination of the program. METHODS: This study examined cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven for children born from 1988 to 1996 in Kohoku Ward (population approximately 300,000), Yokohama, Japan. ASD cases included all cases of pervasive developmental disorders according to ICD-10 guidelines. RESULTS: The MMR vaccination rate in the city of Yokohama declined significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1992, and not a single vaccination was administered in 1993 or thereafter. In contrast, cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven increased significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1996 and most notably rose dramatically beginning with the birth cohort of 1993. CONCLUSIONS: The significance of this finding is that MMR vaccination is most unlikely to be a main cause of ASD, that it cannot explain the rise over time in the incidence of ASD, and that withdrawal of MMR in countries where it is still being used cannot be expected to lead to a reduction in the incidence of ASD.