UK unlikely to block Gripen sale to Argentina

The Argentinian government is in the market to buy both the Embraer KC-390, and the Saab Gripen NG, both built in Brazil. The problem with the sale is that several key components come through companies in the UK. So far there's no request to import the technologies for them, and there is talk of going through other international suppliers to get the components.

The KC-390 uses flight control computers, refueling gear, and multiple other components that are produced by BAE Systems, Ultra Electronics, and Cobham. The Gripen uses ejection seats, and radar produced in the UK. If the components have to be changed, there is no word on who would have to pay for the recertification of the aircraft.

The UK government is unlikely to block any request by Argentina to buy Saab Gripen NG fighters, Brazilian defence minister Jacques Wagner told reporters on 15 April.

The statement at the Latin American Aviation and Defence exhibition comes nearly six months after Argentinian defence minister Agustin Rossi expressed interest in Brazilian-assembled Gripen NGs, despite a need to import key technologies such as the ejection seat and the radar from a historic rival in the UK.

So far, there has still been no official request by Argentina to import British technologies for either Gripen NGs or Embraer KC-390s, Lt Gen José Crepaldi, head of Brazilian air force acquisition programmes.

www.flightglobal.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

This interest in buying new airplane may give some weight to the rumor of Falklands part 2. I'm sure that their Super Entenards are getting long in the tooth by now. I don't know but they may still be flying Skyhawks.

Unfortunately, I don't feel confident that the UK can force project like in the 1980's. They have no Harriers or carriers to move air cover to that theater. That leaves helicopters to pull the weight which is an ugly though.

a reply to: buddah6

Yeah, they're screwed until the Queen Elizabeth and F-35s are ready to go when it comes to force projection.

Don't they have a squadron of Typhoons stationed on the main island? Also isn't the Gripen an air defense aircraft and not really suited for dual role combat?

ETA: opsec fubar... www.dailymail.co.uk... website-security-gaffe.html

a reply to: Kukri

They do, but it's only a small number of aircraft. They currently have four Typhoons, a Type 45 that is rotated through, and Rapier missile systems for defense.

The Gripen NG is a multirole aircraft, capable of both air to air, and air to mud. It can carry AShMs, PGMs, or SDBs/SDB alternatives.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks Zaph: I was just doing a quick search myself but you covered everything quite well.

a reply to: Kukri

Having Typhoons there makes perfect sense! I have very little information about the capability of the Gripen other than it's a beautiful bird. I like the Saab aircraft and flew a SF-340 for several years in my civilian job. It was well made and very comfortable. I assume the Gripen is the same. The Swedes fly them off roads in their frozen backwoods so they have to be simply maintainable and rugged.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
The Argentinian government is in the market to buy both the Embraer KC-390, and the Saab Gripen NG, both built in Brazil. The problem with the sale is that several key components come through companies in the UK. So far there's no request to import the technologies for them, and there is talk of going through other international suppliers to get the components.

The KC-390 uses flight control computers, refueling gear, and multiple other components that are produced by BAE Systems, Ultra Electronics, and Cobham. The Gripen uses ejection seats, and radar produced in the UK. If the components have to be changed, there is no word on who would have to pay for the recertification of the aircraft.

The UK government is unlikely to block any request by Argentina to buy Saab Gripen NG fighters, Brazilian defence minister Jacques Wagner told reporters on 15 April.

The statement at the Latin American Aviation and Defence exhibition comes nearly six months after Argentinian defence minister Agustin Rossi expressed interest in Brazilian-assembled Gripen NGs, despite a need to import key technologies such as the ejection seat and the radar from a historic rival in the UK.

So far, there has still been no official request by Argentina to import British technologies for either Gripen NGs or Embraer KC-390s, Lt Gen José Crepaldi, head of Brazilian air force acquisition programmes.

www.flightglobal.com...

I find it funny that a country that is openly VIOLATING the Non-proliferation Treaty on Nuclear weapons (Trident and nuclear sharing between the UK and US) is trying to dictate to others to not buy/share non-nuclear weapons.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: buddah6

Yeah, they're screwed until the Queen Elizabeth and F-35s are ready to go when it comes to force projection.

They're also doubly screwed because the populous don't want more wars.

It is political suicide. Especially with an election coming up, there already is no majority parliament like they had i yesteryears.

a reply to: buddah6

The Gripen NG puts a lot of the advanced 4.5++/5th gen capabilities into what's essentially a 4.5 platform. It's a multirole platform, capable of netcentric capabilities, it can do air to air, air to mud, or ISR, and can reconfigure mid mission if necessary.

a reply to: Zaphod58

It might replace several types in their air force and navy. I doubt they'd use any surface vessels if the ball drops. They still remember the Belgrano and the UK subs.

a reply to: buddah6

They're also leasing 12 Su-24s from Russia.

a reply to: Zaphod58

How far away are the Falklands? Su-24's have pretty short legs, I think.

a reply to: buddah6

The Su-24 has a combat radius of 380 miles, with 6,600 pounds of externals on board, both fuel and weapons, on a lo-lo-lo profile. With the KC-390s though they won't have any trouble reaching the islands. The Su-24MK is the export version of the M, which was the first to have an IFR probe added.

originally posted by: bullcat


I find it funny that a country that is openly VIOLATING the Non-proliferation Treaty on Nuclear weapons (Trident and nuclear sharing between the UK and US) is trying to dictate to others to not buy/share non-nuclear weapons.

Except the UK isn't violating the non-proliferation treaty as they already had a nuclear capability and they are not trying to dictate to others, the OP says they are unlikely to block it.

Plus the fact that Argentina is a potential threat to the UK the UK government would be grossly negligent if they didn't consider if they should ban UK companies from supplying arms to a potential adversary.

a reply to: bullcat

They aren't dictating anything. They're simply not selling components to the aircraft manufacturer, for those aircraft, without government approval. It's not like they're the only supplier for them, they simply supplied better equipment, cheaper than others.

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: buddah6

Yeah, they're screwed until the Queen Elizabeth and F-35s are ready to go when it comes to force projection.

They're also doubly screwed because the populous don't want more wars.

It is political suicide. Especially with an election coming up, there already is no majority parliament like they had i yesteryears.

Not sure where you are from, but the UK hold the Falkland Islands in high regard, they are just like the Isle of Wight, they may as well be a mile off the coast if you threaten them. Public opinion would be huge for any party, it would be the opposite of political suicide, a potential coup, but it would be a bit sick to promote a war just to get elected.

But if it came, don't think for a moment that the UK would not respond and have the backing of the populace.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
The Argentinian government is in the market to buy both the Embraer KC-390, and the Saab Gripen NG, both built in Brazil. The problem with the sale is that several key components come through companies in the UK. So far there's no request to import the technologies for them, and there is talk of going through other international suppliers to get the components.

The KC-390 uses flight control computers, refueling gear, and multiple other components that are produced by BAE Systems, Ultra Electronics, and Cobham. The Gripen uses ejection seats, and radar produced in the UK. If the components have to be changed, there is no word on who would have to pay for the recertification of the aircraft.

The UK government is unlikely to block any request by Argentina to buy Saab Gripen NG fighters, Brazilian defence minister Jacques Wagner told reporters on 15 April.

The statement at the Latin American Aviation and Defence exhibition comes nearly six months after Argentinian defence minister Agustin Rossi expressed interest in Brazilian-assembled Gripen NGs, despite a need to import key technologies such as the ejection seat and the radar from a historic rival in the UK.

So far, there has still been no official request by Argentina to import British technologies for either Gripen NGs or Embraer KC-390s, Lt Gen José Crepaldi, head of Brazilian air force acquisition programmes.

www.flightglobal.com...

When I was at BAE we had a partnership with SaaB to market it to South Africa, a few of my mates worked out of Linkoping in Sweden. I loved that aircraft, the fact that Sweden could stand up their own aircraft when the UK had to partner, I would be very proud if I were Swedish.

Let's not mention the partnership though, allegations of corruption and all that....

originally posted by: Forensick

originally posted by: bullcat


I find it funny that a country that is openly VIOLATING the Non-proliferation Treaty on Nuclear weapons (Trident and nuclear sharing between the UK and US) is trying to dictate to others to not buy/share non-nuclear weapons.

Except the UK isn't violating the non-proliferation treaty as they already had a nuclear capability and they are not trying to dictate to others, the OP says they are unlikely to block it.

Plus the fact that Argentina is a potential threat to the UK the UK government would be grossly negligent if they didn't consider if they should ban UK companies from supplying arms to a potential adversary.

The Trident nuclear sharing with the US and UK is breaching the NPT.

a reply to: bullcat

Actually, it's not. Under the NPT they won't transfer nuclear weapons or material to non-nuclear states. The UK and US were two of the three original nuclear weapons states.