Are Near Death Experiences Proof of Christianity?

I have seen the claim made by various folks, that many near death experiences are confirmation of their beliefs. We've all read the stories before about people getting a glimpse of heaven and meeting Jesus, or hell to get tortured by demons. No doubt these are powerful experiences for those who have them. But are they really visiting heaven or hell?

My opinion is no, they are not. If that was the case then heaven and hell wouldn't be described differently across the board. There should be more consistency in the accounts. Instead what I read comes off as that persons idea of heaven or hell. Ideas that are shaped by their faith and/or culture, and not reality. Constructed similarly to how dreams are.

Sometimes their experiences aren't even backed up Biblically. Such as one horrifying story I read about a man who was being picked apart by demons as they ate his flesh. Or another where hell was filled with crying, wailing souls. In my opinion, which I think is backed up by the Bible, hell is nothing like that whatsoever. Hell is the place God destroys your soul. More on that here for those interested.

What about near death experiences that don't involve heaven or hell, but some other religions idea of an afterlife?

Thoughts ATS?

Why would a near-death experience be "proof of Christianity"? The idea of an after-life is not exclusively the provence of Christianity, but occurs in many traditions, some pre-dating Christianity by a considerable amount. New Age thought also accepts the idea. But religious people seem to find affirmation of their religion everywhere, mostly because of their narrow pre-suppositions. Thus a near-death experience for a Christian would tend to support that idea of Heaven, God, and so forth. A Muslim would believe a near-death experience proved Allah. To a New Ager an experience might prove "Seth" (or any favorite guru like person) was correct.

Thus any generic near-death experience is co-opted by the experiencer into whatever they already believe.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What about near death experiences that don't involve heaven or hell, but some other religions idea of an afterlife?

This^^^
If NDE's are proof of Christianity, then they are also proof of several other religions and beliefs. They're all correct.

In my opinion, which I think is backed up by the Bible, hell is nothing like that whatsoever. Hell is the place God destroys your soul. More on that here for those interested.

Depends on the sect of Christianity. Some believe Hell is a tortuous holding place, that will eventually be thrown into the lake of fire, along with its inhabitants.
Revelation 20

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

More on topic though. I think NDE's are probably what science says they are. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean there have never been cases where someone actually did see into the afterlife. How would we really know for sure?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

My brother had an NDE and he experienced neither heaven nor hell, but a love so powerful, he couldn't describe it. Like nothing he'd experienced here. Sounds like something I'd prefer.

I agree that what happens to a person depends on one's beliefs, and aren't proof of anything.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

There are far too many afterlife experiences to discount the phenomenon and many of us have personal experiences which confirm the same.

However, every single NDE I've read that included specific elements like Jesus or a hell have all had a Christian organization or a profit-based evangelist behind it. None of those stories have checked out after looking into them for more than 10 minutes.

The vast majority of the ones that are not pushed by a major church follow the same sequence of events and experiences even if the themes are varied. Those are the ones that are worth looking at since the people who experience them include people of every religion and normally have nothing to sell.

Any considersation of the concept of a dimethlytryptamine dump at the point of death or very near death? NDE's do seem similar to the experiences described by participants in the spirit molecule documentary.

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

There are far too many afterlife experiences to discount the phenomenon and many of us have personal experiences which confirm the same.

However, every single NDE I've read that included specific elements like Jesus or a hell have all had a Christian organization or a profit-based evangelist behind it. None of those stories have checked out after looking into them for more than 10 minutes.

The vast majority of the ones that are not pushed by a major church follow the same sequence of events and experiences even if the themes are varied. Those are the ones that are worth looking at since the people who experience them include people of every religion and normally have nothing to sell.

Really and you have done all this study??? What exactly

and you believe you are right and nobody else is because?

You have no evidence or anything to back up anything you say but believe we should listen to your opinion and its valid because?


Well I dont know much about NDEs and I cant make a comment other than many people have made statements about them, they remind me of statements about alien abductees.
To Many for me to deny, to many people adversely affected, to many sincere people.

Sure there are hoaxes but you get them everywhere, doesnt mean they are all hoaxes


If anyone wants to peel a layer or two here seems an interesting website
www.near-death.com...
www.nderf.org...-1

Proof is subjective, if anything it should make us ask qestions

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

There are far too many afterlife experiences to discount the phenomenon and many of us have personal experiences which confirm the same.

However, every single NDE I've read that included specific elements like Jesus or a hell have all had a Christian organization or a profit-based evangelist behind it. None of those stories have checked out after looking into them for more than 10 minutes.

The vast majority of the ones that are not pushed by a major church follow the same sequence of events and experiences even if the themes are varied. Those are the ones that are worth looking at since the people who experience them include people of every religion and normally have nothing to sell.

Really and you have done all this study??? What exactly

and you believe you are right and nobody else is because?

You have no evidence or anything to back up anything you say but believe we should listen to your opinion and its valid because?


Well I dont know much about NDEs and I cant make a comment other than many people have made statements about them, they remind me of statements about alien abductees.
To Many for me to deny, to many people adversely affected, to many sincere people.

Sure there are hoaxes but you get them everywhere, doesnt mean they are all hoaxes


If anyone wants to peel a layer or two here seems an interesting website
www.near-death.com...
www.nderf.org...-1

Proof is subjective, if anything it should make us ask qestions

I'm not sure what you are asking. I'm simply looking at the evidence logically.

If nine out of ten NDE experiences you hear follow the same basic sequence of events, you could call that a "standard" experience. If the remaining 1 out of ten has a vastly different narrative, you naturally look a bit closer at it. When the few that have the church afterlife experience are investigated further and the stories don't pan out or they have a publicist or when they contradict their own story on the second interview, then you must question the motives.

Not to mention there are plenty of devout Christians who have the "standard" afterlife experience with no hell or specific deities.

originally posted by: turboneon
Any considersation of the concept of a dimethlytryptamine dump at the point of death or very near death? NDE's do seem similar to the experiences described by participants in the spirit molecule documentary.

This is actually factual info, I think it's just the brain basically being flooded with '___' causing some people to "trip" before death occurs

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

There are far too many afterlife experiences to discount the phenomenon and many of us have personal experiences which confirm the same.

However, every single NDE I've read that included specific elements like Jesus or a hell have all had a Christian organization or a profit-based evangelist behind it. None of those stories have checked out after looking into them for more than 10 minutes.

The vast majority of the ones that are not pushed by a major church follow the same sequence of events and experiences even if the themes are varied. Those are the ones that are worth looking at since the people who experience them include people of every religion and normally have nothing to sell.

Really and you have done all this study??? What exactly

and you believe you are right and nobody else is because?

You have no evidence or anything to back up anything you say but believe we should listen to your opinion and its valid because?


Well I dont know much about NDEs and I cant make a comment other than many people have made statements about them, they remind me of statements about alien abductees.
To Many for me to deny, to many people adversely affected, to many sincere people.

Sure there are hoaxes but you get them everywhere, doesnt mean they are all hoaxes


If anyone wants to peel a layer or two here seems an interesting website
www.near-death.com...
www.nderf.org...-1

Proof is subjective, if anything it should make us ask qestions

I'm not sure what you are asking. I'm simply looking at the evidence logically.

If nine out of ten NDE experiences you hear follow the same basic sequence of events, you could call that a "standard" experience. If the remaining 1 out of ten has a vastly different narrative, you naturally look a bit closer at it. When the few that have the church afterlife experience are investigated further and the stories don't pan out or they have a publicist or when they contradict their own story on the second interview, then you must question the motives.

Not to mention there are plenty of devout Christians who have the "standard" afterlife experience with no hell or specific deities.

Plenty are there, you think I should believe this because.........Whay? You said so. Yeah right
PROVE IT



and 9 out of ten follow the same story or, nine out of 10 people who comment on subjects like this make stuff up to sound like they are intelligent?

Your comments bother me because they are baseless and stated with an air of authority that you clearly dont have.
You dismiss everyone but yourself because you think only you can be right, sheer arrogance.

I dont know anything about NDEs but what the MSM have reported, I dont deny other peoples experiences.

I am asking nothing, I am telling you you are in no position to judge anothers experience based on reading a thread title.

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

There are far too many afterlife experiences to discount the phenomenon and many of us have personal experiences which confirm the same.

However, every single NDE I've read that included specific elements like Jesus or a hell have all had a Christian organization or a profit-based evangelist behind it. None of those stories have checked out after looking into them for more than 10 minutes.

The vast majority of the ones that are not pushed by a major church follow the same sequence of events and experiences even if the themes are varied. Those are the ones that are worth looking at since the people who experience them include people of every religion and normally have nothing to sell.

Really and you have done all this study??? What exactly

and you believe you are right and nobody else is because?

You have no evidence or anything to back up anything you say but believe we should listen to your opinion and its valid because?


Well I dont know much about NDEs and I cant make a comment other than many people have made statements about them, they remind me of statements about alien abductees.
To Many for me to deny, to many people adversely affected, to many sincere people.

Sure there are hoaxes but you get them everywhere, doesnt mean they are all hoaxes


If anyone wants to peel a layer or two here seems an interesting website
www.near-death.com...
www.nderf.org...-1

Proof is subjective, if anything it should make us ask qestions

I'm not sure what you are asking. I'm simply looking at the evidence logically.

If nine out of ten NDE experiences you hear follow the same basic sequence of events, you could call that a "standard" experience. If the remaining 1 out of ten has a vastly different narrative, you naturally look a bit closer at it. When the few that have the church afterlife experience are investigated further and the stories don't pan out or they have a publicist or when they contradict their own story on the second interview, then you must question the motives.

Not to mention there are plenty of devout Christians who have the "standard" afterlife experience with no hell or specific deities.

Plenty are there, you think I should believe this because.........Whay? You said so. Yeah right
PROVE IT



and 9 out of ten follow the same story or, nine out of 10 people who comment on subjects like this make stuff up to sound like they are intelligent?

Your comments bother me because they are baseless and stated with an air of authority that you clearly dont have.
You dismiss everyone but yourself because you think only you can be right, sheer arrogance.

I dont know anything about NDEs but what the MSM have reported, I dont deny other peoples experiences.

I am asking nothing, I am telling you you are in no position to judge anothers experience based on reading a thread title.

I still don't understand what you think it is that I'm claiming. I'm not speaking "with authority". My knowledge of NDE that's relevant to this thread is the same as yours; what I've gleaned from publicly available accounts.

What I said was that most of them follow a similar sequence of events and the few that have the fire 'n brimstone hell fire threats do not follow that sequence. I also said that there are many devout Christians who experience the standard NDE with no hell fire or Jesus. Why wouldn't all Christians get the evangelical Chick Tract version? That's why I doubt those ones. Which is exactly what I said.

It's the same thing an average person presented with a book full of NDE accounts would say if they compared them.

There is also the Christian belief that no one goes to heaven (or at least very, very few), not yet. Instead we go to a waiting place, a paradise, until the 2nd coming. That is unless you have earned something else in your life.

It's not what is commonly taught, but the scriptures can be interpreted that way.

If that is so, then it ties in with the non-specific idea of NDEs.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Um...Christians are proof of Christianity.

I'm sorry, I failed to miss what that point was about. The others here who are not Christian seem to be confused as well.

originally posted by: ketsuko
There is also the Christian belief that no one goes to heaven (or at least very, very few), not yet. Instead we go to a waiting place, a paradise, until the 2nd coming. That is unless you have earned something else in your life.

It's not what is commonly taught, but the scriptures can be interpreted that way.

If that is so, then it ties in with the non-specific idea of NDEs.

I asked my Jewish friend about that. She said the Jews believe that there is a waiting place, and one waits for a year. That is why they unveil the tombstones a year later.

Purgatory was in the Judaic faith, that translated over to the Catholic faith. Who really knows, but I think that many critics of Christianity think all Christians think like Dante's Inferno. If that is their basis for their idea of Christianity, they missed that Christianity is much older than Dante.

That seems ironic, all the suppositions they have come from Dante, it's like they are somehow validating Dante's Inferno, when that was just a novel of one man's idea of where he thought his enemies should go.

I find that funny, they think Dante's Inferno is Christian doctrine....

a reply to: WarminIndy

Good point.. I should have been more clear.

I meant to ask, are NDEs proof Christianity has the truth?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: WarminIndy

Good point..

I should have been more clear.

I meant to ask, are NDEs proof Christianity has the truth?

NDEs would only be proof of an afterlife. That is all. That would validate every religion.

But NDEs are just "near death experiences", not actual deaths. But there have been reports of actual deaths of people who have come back to life.

You hear it sometimes.

Christianity is more than just about the afterlife.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
My brother had an NDE and he experienced neither heaven nor hell, but a love so powerful, he couldn't describe it. Like nothing he'd experienced here. Sounds like something I'd prefer.

I agree that what happens to a person depends on one's beliefs, and aren't proof of anything.

Interesting though, how people who are given information in a NDE that they couldn't have known turns out to be true; and also, how every near death experience includes a feeling of Love (even the ones who experience a painful hell later feels love).

Also, that feeling of Love causes a permanent change in how they treat others in life.

Each near death experience is personal, just like if you were taking a trip to another country, you may not see or hear the exact same things, but there are things universal to all NDEs.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer


NDE's add to the mystery and hope that our consciousness continues,
but they do not prove or disprove any religion or scientific theory except to the person who had the NDE.