So you want to have the luxuries of a first world country but you hate taxes?

originally posted by: Mandroid7

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Grimpachi
Stop being a dependant slave (if you are) go self employed and do the same as Amazon & Google avoiding taxes, as I do...as an individual worker. Lame first world problems thread.

I am self employed, my taxes are insane. What are you doing to avoid them?

Everything legal...just complicated statutory UK law...still profitable though lol

*Edit*
PM me if you have a UK tax question and you'll get my honest answer

a reply to: muse7

I don't have an issue with paying taxes for thw reasons you mentioned, I am a working class citizen and.wish to do my part. But in the wonderfully developed country that I reside in,taxes are in abundance. We have taxes.for everything and anything, and they seem.to rise quite often where the hard earned that i make is spent most.on taxes and high living costs, and Idont even earn tthat much. Fat cats earn tons and they should pay the most, but for the typicaly wage these days, you are already living tight and the government are taxing the average joe to death.

I live in the UK btw.

a reply to: grainofsand
I didn't notice your location. I am in the US. Not a lot of options here I know of.

Not for small businesses aanyway

It's not really taxes per se but how much taxes you pay. Government is basically insatiable. Unlike a business, if the government rakes in more taxes than they expect, they find some program to spend it on, whether the people asked for it or not. And there's always pressure groups that think taxes just have to pay for a new Senior Center no senior ever asked for.

This is a very complex subject, and I don't mean to simplify it the way you have, but the bottom line is that of a government, collectively or otherwise, taxes too much, that first world status you talk about disappears pretty quickly, too. Witness England where government was so envious of the rich classes that they enacted an inheritance tax, etc. to make sure those guys lost their fortunes and became "just like everyone else," even to the point of essentially confiscating their estates. Their economy went to hell in a hand basket and now, ironically, the only industry left is tourism because people want to visit the old houses, now part of the National Trust.

So be careful what you ask for.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
Same, I don't mind paying my bit but it annoys me when lazy bastards I know have a bigger flatscreen than me for simply telling lies.
I'm no grass though so they can continue with the success of the scam.
Maybe I'm part of the problem?

*Edit*
I have more respect for folk who trade in products that the UK government prohibits than I do for lazy bastards who scam the government/taxpayer/treasury, if only because trading in products the UK government prohibits involves actual work, not just easy lies living on the work of others.

And.....OP is gone haha

I think it depends on what country a person lives in.

Some countries are more wasteful with their tax revenues, while others not so much.

It all depends on how much of a bang you're getting for your buck.

We get taxed to death here in Canada, but even though we go home with less of a paycheque, the standard of living here for the average Joe is still far far better than a lot of other 1st world countries.

a reply to: muse7

Those things you list: paved roads, emergency services, public hospitals are local things paid for best by local taxes. What do they have to do with Federal Income tax?

a reply to: muse7

The federal government does not need to directly tax citizens.

Repeal the 16th amendment and let the states raise the revenue from their citizens instead of having their citizens fleeced and the spoils used as leverage for federal subsidies.

All services are local (paved roads, sewer systems, trash collection, public hospitals, EMS services, 911, etc.) will not change with the exception of the interstate highways which are actually the mandate of the department of defense.

originally posted by: muse7
I hear this a lot...people bitching about having to pay taxes yet they still want to have the luxuries of paved roads, emergency services, public hospitals and all of the other luxuries that come with living in a first world country.

Yes I agree our Government could tone down the spending a little bit, especially all of the foreign aid and military spending..but if we want to have the luxury of paved roads, sewer systems, trash collection, public hospitals, EMS services, 911 then we need to pay our fair share of taxes.

Let's face it....if we didn't have an expansive tax collection agency our country would not be as developed as it is now.

The IRS, along with our Government are a necessary evil and are crucial for a functioning society.

Well said.

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: Mandroid7
Why is any tax even fair?

We work our asses off for a piece of paper that they just printed off?

It is no longer backed by any kind of value, other than imagination.

Ranting that taxes are good? Wow,just wow!

Make a sales tax increase and luxury tax, if you need to.

This thing called money is used as control, nothing more.

Uneven application of rates, people using loopholes, political targeting. Which of those do you like?

People want public hospitals
paved roads
EMS services
911
well maintained highway systems
a strong military and a functional government

sales tax alone would not cover all of the expenses in a country of more than 300 million

Please add the following important public services

Public Health
Inexpensive Mail and package delivery
Education
Basic Scientific Research (with the proceeds and patents going to We the People not I the Greedy).
Health and Safety oversight
Judicial Systems
Specification & Standards
Weather Service
Emergency Services
Public Land Serivces
and the list goes on and on....

Pfffth .. most of that could be done cheaper .. more efficiently if it was privatized ...

a reply to: muse7

I live in a first world country, and I pay heavy taxes, and it is worth it to me. I get a lot for that money. I get healthcare, I get paid vacation, I get paid sick days, if I fall on hard times, I know I will be covered, and will get help finding a job or training. My kids get a university education!

What pisses me off is that I, my husband, and my children now, are being required to pay taxes to the US, because I unfortunately was born there. Under the new FATCA laws, my husband, who does not have any american citizenship, is considered a "US Person" because he is married to me, and my kids, who were not born there and have never lived there, are too.

I do not get ANYTHING in return for those taxes. I do not drive on those roads, use those utilities, benefit from the military or police protection, or public schooling. I can't even renounce my US nationality.

I have nothing against paying taxes in principle, but this is really going too far.

I didn't choose to be born, let alone where I was born and I don't recall being consulted when my birth was registered thereby making me a subject of Britain. No choice coming in, no option to opt out once you are in whether you're in the first or the third world. To support myself, I currently have to live in a city in order to earn a living, and I pay local Council Tax in contribution to the local services, such as Police, waste removal, road maintenance and the such. I don't drive, so I don't have to pay for roads which I don't use, other than to walk across.

All seems reasonably fair enough to me.

I refuse to pay central taxes, I do that the simply way, I don't earn enough to pay them. Simple.

I am happy to pay for the necessities of civilisation and city life, the luxuries, I neither need nor want.

I decided to kick off 2015 with an experiment-
I've been tracking every dollar I spend.

At the end of the year, I'll be able to calculate with total accuracy exactly how much I pay in taxes.

Here's my .02 on the tax situation, though.
Last year, and many years prior, I've held a steady job with a decent check. Every single check shows a breakdown of what I've earned, and what the government takes away from me.


Medicare- 1.5%
Soc Sec - 6.2%
Federal - 13.5%
State - 5.4%

total - 26.6% (off the top)

Of what's left, since I began tracking, I've noticed that about half of my money goes to my house, and half goes to general expenses.

Of my "mortgage" payment, 31.5% of it is taxes- and 40% is interest... but that's another rant.
On my personal spending, the taxes get complicated- but to make it easy I'll call it about 6% for now (until I have a full years data and can break it down)

That means that for every dollar I earn, 26.6 cents is taken off the top- 15.75 cents go to property tax, 3 cents goes to general sales tax.
That's 45.35 cents of every dollar I "earn" going to taxes- and that's assuming the low 6% on my personal spending- much of which goes to things like gasoline and whatnot. Doesn't count vehicle taxes, either.
Another 20 cents of that dollar goes to the corrupt banking system in the form of interest- something those of us too poor to buy property outright are stuck with. (And, thanks to fractional reserve lending, that is interest paid on money the banks made up out of thin air- what a scheme!)

After all that, I still had to pay in about a full paychecks worth back to federal and state- about another 2% off the top.

"God bless america"- I hope you choke on it, you fat #s

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: muse7
Yes I agree our Government could tone down the spending a little bit, especially all of the foreign aid and military spending..but if we want to have the luxury of paved roads, sewer systems, trash collection, public hospitals, EMS services, 911 then we need to pay our fair share of taxes.

Do you even realize that Federal taxes have nothing to do with EMS, sewer, trash, roads (Federal is Interstate's only) and 911?

This is all handled on the local level with property taxes.

When people speak of smaller government they are refering to our dangerous, inept and inefficient Federal government.

federal tax is absolutely used for those things. It is give to the states as grants and federal funding for things like updating 911 system, purchasing new fire engines, updating water systems etc.

originally posted by: defiythelie

federal tax is absolutely used for those things. It is give to the states as grants and federal funding for things like updating 911 system, purchasing new fire engines, updating water systems etc.

That is a very minor piece as not every township or municipality receives annual grants. The vast bulk of the local budget on those items is funded by property taxes.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: muse7

Have you ever lived in another country? Seriously? I've lived in quite a few and its amazing when your country doesn't spend everything on defense...that frees up quite a bit for other things...

Sure you no longer have a bigger defense budget than the world combined but you have solid infrastructure....good healthcare....an education system that is surpassing the world average...you know things like that.

I've lived in Europe, Asia, Central America, South America and the good ol USA....there are some great things about the USA with the exception of the Asian country its the worst place ive ever lived. Job wise its the greatest though.

I am also assuming you are referring to the United States more so than other More Developed Countries.

For example...Germany has high taxes for single males...a tv tax and a radio tax...its crazy...but the health care is amazing...they work less than 40 hours a week...they get tons of vacations...their school system is setup for you to quit at certain points depending on what you want to do...so if you want to be a laborer..why go to school for a long time? In almost every profession you want to do from hotel clerk to cop requires you to go to a school for 3 years or so... that does nothing but teaches you that job. The downside of this is wanting to change jobs but the upside is everyone is competent. I don't think I met a person over there that didn't understand their job from top down. So although they have high taxes ...I enjoyed it way more than I ever did the USA.

I find most Lesser Developed Countries to be way more chill. The main roads and stores are fine...its the off beaten path that lacks infrastructure. For major healthcare concerns you can go somewhere else. When you live in lets say Central America you can go to Costa Rica for some medical procedures...or even Cuba.

I don't think its an issue of taxes always...its what they spend those tax dollars on. I grew up in a small town...we fixed pot holes by doing it ourselves. We kept a small amount of stuff to fill them in at the city shed and people just drove up and took some and filled in the pot holes on their street. We didn't have to hire someone for 20 bucks an hour to clean up garbage or fix minor potholes. If people actually took pride in their little communities (like many Lesser Developed Countries do) then we'd not need to waste so much money on taxes.

Give this man a prize!!! 10000% accurate