Question for Christians...

a reply to: EternalSolace

Do you deny the difficulty of asking a recent convert to accept that, for say, their dead mother will burn in hell?

If the person is a convert(meaning they have accepted the doctrine as true) then no I would see no difficulty in telling that person their mother chose to be separate from God .

Hell is separation from God. Hell is bad because God, who is the essence of Good, has withdrawn his presence from there. Hell is not bad because God makes it Bad. Hell is bad because God is not there.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Brainwashed peoples don't tend to have a problem with the story they've been brainwashed to believe...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb Well said. I will never bang my shoe on the desk like a parliamentarian, and if I did you will have to forgive me.

a reply to: Prezbo369

For brainwashing to be successful the subject must not be aware they have been brainwashed so therefore it is not possible for anyone to know if a brainwashing has been successful, if you believe brainwashing actually works that is. Logically someone claiming someone else has been brainwashed is just as likely to have been subject to a brainwashing themselves.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: EternalSolace

I asked the basic question that heaven wouldn't be heaven if I knew my Mother or Cat had gone to hell I was told that god wipes the memory of them from you.
Please correct me If I'm wrong.

That sounds eerily similar to damnatio memoriae.

a reply to: Prezbo369

And people who do nothing to enrich the intellect of themselves and others are a bore...

answer as i see it:

hell is the grave, the grave and its contents are destroyed. in effect, if you don't want to have an eternal life, you won't. no one but you, makes that choice. it's not a penalty imposed on you, it's your decision you impose on yourself.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
How do you expect someone to convert to Christianity when it means accepting that all their deceased family members have gone to hell?

IMO, the Christian god doesn't make any sense precisely for reasons such as the one you asked about.

An 'all-loving' god, IMO, would not condemn any soul to eternal damnation only his followers would do that.

And thats great that you are well versed in the bible Reading it is one thing understanding it is another, you Obviously do not understand "AGAPE" love if you did it would make that sentence futile..a reply to: EternalSolace

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: boymonkey74

It's said that God removes all sadness and all tears from his followers upon entry to heaven. That would mean that a Christian recognizes each individual's responsibility for their own eternal choice.

Wouldn't this be a violation of free will? What's the point of granting humans free will on earth only to strip it away 70 short years later?

originally posted by: EternalSolace
How do you expect someone to convert to Christianity when it means accepting that all their deceased family members have gone to hell?

Because only He can judge that. We will not know who is going where until that day comes. It is only for us to have faith.

a reply to: EternalSolace

If all your deceased family members struggled with money for most of their lives and you were offered a gift of wealth (say you won a lottery) would you reject it in honor of their stoic endurance?

Perhaps you could share your good fortune with your living relatives, just as you could share your Christian faith with them?

It makes no sense to wallow in misery.

Or, to put it another way, would condemning yourself improve the lot of anyone else?

The concept of hell pre-dates Christianity. It is part of most religions across the globe.

Biblically, 'Sheol' in the Old Testament is the "place of the dead", for both the righteous and the wicked. In the New Testament, Jesus refers to Gehenna, which was a rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem where it had become a tradition of burning the corpses of those who could not be given a proper burial (i.e: those who committed suicide). As such, it was obviously not a literal description of hell, but was used as a metaphor, a parable, for the fate of the wicked. The New Testament also refers to Tartarus as a place where fallen angels are bound (until judgement). There is no mention of humans being sent there. Other New Testament descriptions describe the wicked as dying "the second death" after judgement and this is taken to mean that they simply cease to exist.

I cannot believe that a loving God would torture people for eternity and I would state that hell, as popularly conceived, is NOT a Christian concept.

originally posted by: undo
answer as i see it:

hell is the grave, the grave and its contents are destroyed. in effect, if you don't want to have an eternal life, you won't. no one but you, makes that choice. it's not a penalty imposed on you, it's your decision you impose on yourself.

I will never understand why people who reject God are so upset when they get told that God won't save them.

a reply to: hotel1

And how many Christians do you think will say they were brainwashed?.....

a reply to: ketsuko

We don't get upset. We really don't care one way or the other to be honest. What we do is bring up the discrepancy that if Christianity were to actually be true, it violates the spirit of an "all-loving god" to not admit people into heaven for the simple reason of not worshiping god. The whole need to worship god seems to present a god that is petty and insecure since he needs validation from his own creations in order for them to be in his presence. It is contradictory.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: undo
answer as i see it:

hell is the grave, the grave and its contents are destroyed. in effect, if you don't want to have an eternal life, you won't. no one but you, makes that choice. it's not a penalty imposed on you, it's your decision you impose on yourself.

I will never understand why people who reject God are so upset when they get told that God won't save them.

its simpler than people make it. if you want to have eternal life, you make that conscious decision. then you have eternal life. if you don't want to have eternal life, either because you prefer not to experience anything else, or you don't believe it's possible, then you won't. it's a free will decision, all the way. you won't know the difference after you die, since you didn't believe it anyway, and that's the end of that. there's no torment, suffering and so on. the evidence is in the very last book of the bible, death and hell are destroyed, the grave and its contents are destroyed. and it's a permament end. you simply pass out of existence, forever. that's what you asked to happen or believed would happen, so it does.

entry to eternity, is like a password on a door. and the password is the name of jesus. the creator gave you the password that indicates you want to live forever, so use it.

So your willing to believe in a fairy tale like aliens and dont believe in GOD...hmmma reply to: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Prezbo369

And people who do nothing to enrich the intellect of themselves and others are a bore...

Aah the typical vacant reply from the aforementioned folk....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: boymonkey74

It's said that God removes all sadness and all tears from his followers upon entry to heaven. That would mean that a Christian recognizes each individual's responsibility for their own eternal choice.

Wouldn't this be a violation of free will? What's the point of granting humans free will on earth only to strip it away 70 short years later?

I wouldn't suppose that there's "free will" in Heaven, as it leads to rebellion (God's says "Been there! Done that!") and generally usually leads to SIN!

a reply to: undo

Yes, but I'm talking about all the ones who rail on and on about "I'm a good person, better than so-called Christians, but I'm a atheist and I don't believe in God, but I'm going to hell?!"

IMO, if you really don't believe, then the implications of a theology you don't believe in shouldn't bother you that much.

Otherwise, what constitutes belief is God's to judge, not mine. For the sake of religion, it is made clear cut of course, but spiritually, I'm not always sure it's that clear.