What does it mean to cease to exist?

a reply to: Blue Shift


This is your subjective experience. There's many people who have vivid memories and experience while being pronounced dead.

Again, to say anyone who claims that there's an afterlife are wishful thinkers is really an ignorant statement. You have to accept that this is your subjective opinion and everyone that doesn't agree with your opinion are wishful thinkers.

I have had an experience where I passed out in a hospital and while I was supposed to be passsed out, I them carrying me back to my hospital room. I have had several O.B.E.'s where I walked around and looked at myself lying in the bed.

Again, this is all subjective and I wouldn't say my subjective experiences means everyone that doesn't agree with me are just wishful thinkers.

My point is, you can't say anyone ceases to exist based on a limited 3 dimensional perception of reality. That makes no sense.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: neoholographic

Death of the body occurs. Death of the soul??? There's the mystery...

Sure; the body dies. There is no death of soul/spirit; no mystery at all. This material world is not real at all so the body is just a temporary vehicle for those individual souls who seek it; to experience 3D (then they leave that body and go back NORMAL existence). Its way beyond explaining on any thread [every one wants answers] but will not do the personal work it takes to ask/understand the simple question (if even asked themselves) WHY AM I HERE INCARNATED NOW on Earth in this timeline?

a reply to: Blue Shift

One of the things I have seen people use again and again to explain existence and non existence is memory or lack there of.

You have no memory of anything you said while out.

There are people that did have memories when they were completely out even with no brain activity from tragic circumstances as well.

Some people have no memory of anything before they were 5 years old. It is a complete blank.

My point is that the lack of memories does not necessarily mean anything either.

I have known people that said they never dream. Ever.
An EEG Scan and Rapid Eye Movement would put that notion to rest.

I asked one of my friends that said he never dreamed, to keep a notebook by his bed and before he allows his conscious to focus on the here and now when he wakes up, to focus on where he was.

After about a month of this, he had a notebook full of many dreams which became more vivid the more he did it.

I think it has more to do with attention and focusing of your conscious.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Four hours gone. During that time, my brain was unable to hold on to any sensations or images. There was nothing. No time, no memories, no dreams.

But yet you returned! Where did your awareness go? It didn't "die". This shows that for whatever reason, our waking consciousness can literally be "switched off" while things get sorted out, as it were.

The universe can't exist without your part functioning, it falls apart.

This whole Matrix inspired "we live in a simulation" fad has become tiresome. (Though I'll admit it was a cool movie) Trust me, there's a creator, there's a heavenly host of glorious beings as described in Luke 2:13

Our existence here is a blink of any eye. You're far more 'alive' when your physical body 'dies'.

a reply to: neoholographic

Have you ever delved into the theory that we're all one single consciousness experiencing itself subjectively? If so what do you think of that?

You talk of subjective realitys, well what if you only hear what you want to hear and see what you want to see because ultimately you are the universe and the universe is you. I see the backround colour for this forum as black, but for all i know you perceive it entirely different, but when you say "red" or "green" I hear "black" because subjectively thats what it is to me and you are me experiencing itself from a different subjective standing point. So we're all actually one thing experiencing itself split into many different aspects of ourself. The purpose of that would be? I can obviously only speculate but maybe some sort of test on ourself, or a trial to reach an even higher form of consciousness that can then ultimately experience itself in different ways, maybe we're just bored and this was something to do because we cannot cease to exist even if we wanted to?

Really sorry if I didnt explain that well, its a hard concept to type up.

originally posted by: ColeYounger
This whole Matrix inspired "we live in a simulation" fad has become tiresome. (Though I'll admit it was a cool movie) Trust me, there's a creator, there's a heavenly host of glorious beings as described in Luke 2:13

Well, Luke had his opinions, and I have mine. If you want to get your information second-hand, and it makes you feel better, I can't blame you.

Our existence here is a blink of any eye. You're far more 'alive' when your physical body 'dies'.

I think this is one of those things you have to experience (or "not-experience") for yourself. The good thing is, if I'm right and you're wrong, I won't be gloating, and you won't feel bad about it. If you're right and I'm wrong, then hopefully your supernatural superbeing is more about love and forgiveness than vicious punishment -- New Testament vs. Old Testament.

Blue Shift - Just a quick question. You were never declared clinically dead in medical terms, correct?

a reply to: TheUsersName

You mean "The Egg" scenario? Where we're proto gods being groomed for our very own universes to build? That's more optimistic than the 'we are all splintered versions of one being'.. .God... who popped into existence in the sea of probability, despite nearly impossible odds against it, but did anyway due to eternity, and now is deep in a dream where it views possibilities from every angle, telling itself stories, because waking and finding you are actually all alone in infinity is a nightmare and will eventually drive even God insane.

At least with the Egg scenario, there are other Gods for company...

Could be...

a reply to: Baddogma

I never said that this single consciousness was alone in the universe, though in some ways it does make sense to me that we are all "one" if we all come from a singular source. I'm glad you replied as I have pondered on this scenario but never heard of this proto god theory, more things to google.

But I was more inclined to think that no we are not alone, rather we have chosen to do this to ourselves for a higher purpose, maybe collectively we have talked to another "consciousness" who said "Aw man you gotta try splitting yourself up subjectively its madness" or maybe we just wondered what it was like and this is a first try, it opens up so many more possibilities, which is why I like the idea.

Staying on topic a bit more, I think if I found conclusive non-falsiable evidence or belief that this universe was finite and that when I die i will just rot and all my thoughts would cease to exist, doesn't that also prove there no point? And that ultimatley we're just a natural mistake, if thats the case and theres nothing else to it why not just kill ourselves and be done with the inevitable? Its clear our existance causes severe harm to other speices and our enviroment, even each other, so if the grand answer is: There is nothing after death, and this materialistic world is all there is then you die. What real reason do I have to go on living? Because in such a case every moral is just a man made concept and there is no real "reason" or "meaning" behind anything we're just germs living in our own little petri dish.

Thats why I look for other ideas, because honestly I can't live with that.

Someone turn that around?

a reply to: TheUsersName

Well, this is pretty "meta"... but here...

Even with some father figure (or insane, gibbering torturer) watching us for mistakes (or entertainment), the only reason for existence lies squarely within us... so it's up to us to make it meaningful... and that's actually rather beautiful, when one (or many) thinks of it a bit.

It's a choice of being or not... or making other intelligences miserable, or not, once "here"... and then, if being is the choice, then love (which comes with the choice to be), expressive aesthetics and possibilities can ascribe enough meaning for a few eternities... with or without any true "other" existing.

After that there are likely unimaginable states of being... we'll see... or not...

Nihilism is a rather sound philosophy at this level, true... but it's self limiting... one creates their own meanings.

When not dreaming you know nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, the same under anesthesia.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Maybe you simply don't "remember" any of those things. There's a big difference between the two. Have you ever read any of Michael Newton's Journey of Souls books? I hope you do, or have a chance to.

but will not do the personal work it takes to ask/understand the simple question (if even asked themselves) WHY AM I HERE INCARNATED NOW on Earth in this timeline?

a reply to: vethumanbeing
We're hear because we agreed to be here, now. There is learning we must all do. You can't know beforehand what it is that you came to learn, though. That would spoil the outcome.

We all came here voluntarily. That's the explanation that I'm sticking to. LOVE to YOU (ME.)

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: Blue Shift

ColeYounger:
Four hours gone. During that time, my brain was unable to hold on to any sensations or images. There was nothing. No time, no memories, no dreams.

Blue Shift: But yet you returned! Where did your awareness go? It didn't "die". This shows that for whatever reason, our waking consciousness can literally be "switched off" while things get sorted out, as it were.

ColeYounger: The universe can't exist without your part functioning, it falls apart.

Blue Shift: This whole Matrix inspired "we live in a simulation" fad has become tiresome. (Though I'll admit it was a cool movie) Trust me, there's a creator, there's a heavenly host of glorious beings as described in Luke 2:13
Our existence here is a blink of any eye. You're far more 'alive' when your physical body 'dies'.

You realize "movie dome filmatics" is trying to tell us something; look at the output of ideas by the studios to inform us of potentials: Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Avatar, Dogma, Alien, District Nine, Wall-e, The Matrix, Brazil, The Truman Show, Blade Runner, Mad Max; The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy; Passion of the Christ; to name a few. Just as there are ancient ruins, the Nazca lines TELL A STORY. Past future present events are coming closer together faster (just like this website will reach zenith growth) and will implode [or reach a God head point] that will pierce this unreality bubble. Artificial Intel will push this physical reality over the cliff. Luke's 'Glorious beings' do exist (you are one of them) we are far more 'alive' when losing this physical body and rejoin our true environment (lighter in frequency).

originally posted by: donktheclown

VHB:
...but will not do the personal work it takes to ask/understand the simple question (if even asked themselves) WHY AM I HERE INCARNATED NOW on Earth in this timeline?

donktheclown: a reply to: vethumanbeing
We're hear because we agreed to be here, now. There is learning we must all do. You can't know beforehand what it is that you came to learn, though. That would spoil the outcome.

We all came here voluntarily. That's the explanation that I'm sticking to. LOVE to YOU (ME.)

YES! You understand; Love to You as well. We CANNOT have prior knowledge on this/ know before hand why or what we individually have to learn in this incarnation or it spoils the lesson (its secret and have to discover the reason for it). I agreed to be here to challenge myself "WHY AM I HERE"; [getting a ticket to earth was eons in the waiting; paid scalper price] as this IS THE MUSIC FESTIVAL of a life time to experience (faked the wrist band) and snuck in.

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: grandmakdw

Perhaps YOU just haven't seen the evidence. Other people may have. Just saying...

YEAH GRANDMA.

there is evidence and stuff.... like the ridiculous abuse of this Einstein quote which doesn't even nearly extend into the supposed.. ..

... EVIDENCE! 1! it proves stuff and stuff DUH!


(give me a mother-fu$&@n break, neo. if you think there is evidence either way you are truly deluded and have lost my confidence as a legitimate supporter of alternative theory. GET A GRIP MAN!)

You are quite the comedian!! LOLOLOL!

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: grandmakdw

You said several things that make no sense. You said:

There is nothing that continues after death.

How do you know this? Point me to the scientific research that says there's nothing that continues after death.


Objective reality has no proof that you cease to exist at death. In fact, Einstein showed us what we perceive as a 3 dimensional "NOW" Isn't objective reality. So there's not a shred of evidence that the person you percieve as dying in a 3 dimensional "NOW" ceases to exist.

Think of it like going to sleep or being put under anesthesia. When not dreaming you know nothing, see nothing, feel nothing, the same under anesthesia.

Wrong again. They're people who recall dreams under anesthesia and sometimes the dreams are more vivid than usual.

(Reuters Health) - The dreaming reported by many patients during surgery, in most cases, does not mean the anesthesia is wearing off, Australian researchers report in the journal Anesthesiology.

Few studies have looked at the link between dreaming and the depth of anesthesia, and studies that have investigated the topic have yielded inconclusive results, lead author Dr. Kate Leslie, from Royal Melbourne Hospital, and colleagues report.

They point out that dreams experienced under anesthesia can be distressing to patients, and some may think their dream was actual awareness resulting from inadequate anesthesia.

In their study, the researchers assessed 300 consecutive healthy patients who were undergoing elective surgery that required general anesthesia. The Bispectral Index, a measure of the anesthetic effect on the brain, was used to gauge the depth of anesthesia during surgery. After the surgery was over, the patients were interviewed about their dreams.

Twenty-two percent of patients reported dreaming. No statistically significant difference in the average Bispectral Index value was noted between the dreamers and patients who didn't dream, the report indicates.

Link

I have seen studies that go as high as 33%.

So again, if anyone claims we cease to exist when we die they have to provide evidence that this is the case or that saying we cease to exist at some point that we perceive as "NOW" has any meaning above and beyond are perception of now.

There is no objective scientific evidence that anyone continues after death.

There is only conjecture, not proof, there are theories, but they are not proof.

There is no objective proof at all about what happens when one dies and never revives.

There is only faith that one continues to exist, and hope that one continues to exist, but not one shred of objective scientific proof.

And that not one shred of scientific proof, definitive proof, goes both ways, there is none to prove we do continue to exist, and none to probe we do not continue to exist.

It is a mystery of the most profound kind.

If you think there is absolute proof of existence after the final death, you are wrong, there isn't any.

There is only faith and hope that we continue to exist in some form or another, only faith and hope.

Can you explain exactly the effect DNA has upon the Wave Structure of Matter?

originally posted by: Ultralight
You are quite the comedian!! LOLOLOL!

I don't think Grandma is that funny.

originally posted by: ArchangelOger
Blue Shift - Just a quick question. You were never declared clinically dead in medical terms, correct?

You don't have to be dead at all to experience OOBEs. I do it every night after having the proper sleep REM time, I am off in 'adventure land' experiencing the other lighter realms. You would be surprised; you can 'physically' consume FOOD, smell fragrance; fall of off ladders or walls and hurt yourself; fly, have sex (there is always a lesson involved though). Read Robert A. Monroe's "Far Journeys" for a better explanation of this phenomenon. I return to some locals I've visited before. I am not conscious in my inert body, my consciousness is traveling outside of it in a lighter body form that can still eat, smell, experience pain etc.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

You wouldn't.