Who wants to argue creation?

a reply to: spy66

Genesis explained nothing...if you ask a child what they remember before they were born, their answer will be "nothing". "Void of Space" as you are so eloquently quoting is simple saying there was "nothing" before "something". Which in itself is contradictory to the very verse in which it entails because if there was "nothing" there could not be any God's or angels to command existence/something.

In conclusion to your hypothesis what we have is an orderly universe in which there is no room for supernatural influence; to admit the existence of order is to eliminate the need for a god.

If acorns start growing into creationists, or if women begin turning into cars, then we may wish to hypothesize about a supernatural influence. But until such time as nature becomes hopelessly unintelligible and unpredictable, we need look no further than nature itself for the answer.

LET THE KNOWLEDGE AND THE TRUTH BE YOUR GUIDING FORCE....

originally posted by: toktaylor
a reply to: spy66

Genesis explained nothing...if you ask a child what they remember before they were born, their answer will be "nothing". "Void of Space" as you are so eloquently quoting is simple saying there was "nothing" before "something". Which in itself is contradictory to the very verse in which it entails because if there was "nothing" there could not be any God's or angels to command existence/something.

Nothing is actually something. It is a void of a single absolute infinte Source and it takes up all Space possible. Do you know why energy and matter cant be destroied? It is because this infinite void exists.

Do you know how to reason this Logic???

Science have tried by trying to create a absolute vacuum. They keep on trying to create a void of Space that is absolute empty.

originally posted by: toktaylor
In conclusion to your hypothesis what we have is an orderly universe in which there is no room for supernatural influence; to admit the existence of order is to eliminate the need for a god.

If acorns start growing into creationists, or if women begin turning into cars, then we may wish to hypothesize about a supernatural influence. But until such time as nature becomes hopelessly unintelligible and unpredictable, we need look no further than nature itself for the answer.

LET THE KNOWLEDGE AND THE TRUTH BE YOUR GUIDING FORCE....

What you are saying here is even byond what even a relgious nutt would Cock up. Who would take you seriously on this?

originally posted by: spy66

No.
Verse one state: In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth.
How can Earth exist if this is what God is going to create?
In verse 7. God made the firmament. In verse 8 God state that the firmament is heaven.How can the firmament/heaven exist prior to verse 2?
If the firmament dont exist neither does Earth. Because Genesis is about the creation of heaven and Earth.
How Earth is created is mentioned after verse 8. And Earth is related to the firmament also called heaven. Because out of the firmament comes Earth.

From your previous post:

But God did not create Earth. Where does genesis mention that God created Earth? Nowhere as you state.

Genesis says clearly: God created Earth. It doesn't say 'God is going to create Earth' it says it has created.
You first said God did not create Earth and it doesn't say anywhere that God did, now you say 'because of the firmament comes Earth'.

You are not stating what Genesis says, you are making assumptions that are not written in Genesis just to make it all flow with your theory. I expect you will tell me again that we interpret the Bible the way we have been taught, and I say I don't do that, I simply read what it says and it is bad science from people that lived 2000 years ago. That was the only explanation they had for the creation of it all...... but we know better now, and Genesis just doesn't make sense.

Regarding your question: 'How can the firmament/heaven exist prior to verse 2?'....... well, I have a better question for you:

How can there be grasses and plants in verse 12 (day 3) when the sun, essential for plant for photosynthesis, has not yet been created? (day 4)

a reply to: Agartha

Genesis says clearly: God created Earth. It doesn't say 'God is going to create Earth' it says it has created.

Correct. verse one state that in the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth.

That is the only time it is mentioned.

- God does not start to create until verse 3. In verse Three God said let there be light. That is Gods first Word. Verse 1. is more like a titel/heading. Verse 2 is moses talking.

In verse 1. it is also stated that God also created the heaven. But According to verse 6 and 7. Heaven did not exist in verse 1. Because heaven was according to genesis created in verse 7. Where in verse 8 God called the firmament for heaven.

In verse 9 and 10. Earth is being described for the first time.

I dont know if i can describe this any clearer than this for you to see

Regarding your question: 'How can the firmament/heaven exist prior to verse 2?'....... well, I have a better question for you:

How can there be grasses and plants in verse 12 (day 3) when the sun,

What kind of light is needed for grass and plants to grow? I can grow plans without Sunlight. So can you.]

a reply to: redtic
Giving words new definition is arrogant.

Arrogance - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or ability

originally posted by: spy66

In verse 9 and 10. Earth is being described for the first time.

Nope, verse 1 describes Earth (as formless and empty as it didn't have yet land, rivers, etc). You do not describe something that doesn't exist. Let say I am going to make a cake: I will not describe the cake before it's made or until I start making it! I can describe it as runny batter before it becomes a cake, but only in the process of making it.

What kind of light is needed for grass and plants to grow? I can grow plans without Sunlight. So can you.

LOL Spy! So now we also have God holding a fluorescent light????
Besides that grasses didn't appear on the planet after the dinosaurs had died....


Another one that is wrong is verse 16 where it says the sun and moon were created at the same time..... how wrong is that? We know that the sun was created billion of years before Earth and the moon was last.

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: spy66

In verse 9 and 10. Earth is being described for the first time.

Nope, verse 1 describes Earth (as formless and empty as it didn't have yet land, rivers, etc). You do not describe something that doesn't exist. Let say I am going to make a cake: I will not describe the cake before it's made or until I start making it! I can describe it as runny batter before it becomes a cake, but only in the process of making it.

What kind of light is needed for grass and plants to grow? I can grow plans without Sunlight. So can you.

LOL Spy! So now we also have God holding a fluorescent light????
Besides that grasses didn't appear on the planet after the dinosaurs had died....


Another one that is wrong is verse 16 where it says the sun and moon were created at the same time..... how wrong is that? We know that the sun was created billion of years before Earth and the moon was last.

You see you are wrong again. Verse 1 does not describe Earth as being formless and empty. Verse 2 describes that Earth was without form and void.

I have been fallowing you on a different topic here on ATS. I dont know how much science you understand because it is far from clear. But what does it mean within science if something is without form and void?

Form is the shape, visual appearance, constitution or configuration of an object. In a wider sense, the form is the way something is or happens.

- So if Earth is without form....it cant have an visual appearance or a configuration of an Object.

Is it true that void can mean a empty Space?

- So if Earth is also without void which imply empty Space. That means, before Earth was formed. Earth was without form and void. Non existing.

Another one that is wrong is verse 16 where it says the sun and moon were created at the same time..... how wrong is that? We know that the sun was created billion of years before Earth and the moon was last

I understand that you argue that this is wrong. But that is because you have everything wrong from the beginning so it is obvious.

LOL Spy! So now we also have God holding a fluorescent light????

This just prove your intelligence and understanding. Do you really think God was holding a fluorescent light? Who in their right mind does?

I was hoping you were brighter than this. But i Guess People who argue against creation are nothng but common People With simple minds.

originally posted by: spy66

I have been fallowing you on a different topic here on ATS. I dont know how much science you understand because it is far from clear.

I understand that you argue that this is wrong. But that is because you have everything wrong from the beginning so it is obvious.

This just prove your intelligence and understanding.

I was hoping you were brighter than this. But i Guess People who argue against creation are nothng but common People With simple minds.

You are just plain rude and arrogant. How dare you judge my intelligence? At least I know how to spell and I speak 3 languages correctly!

I have never ever judged you at all, I have only been critically analyzing Genesis. I have always debated with you in a nice way and although we disagree I have never ever treated you without respect.

But that's ok, I take no offense, most religious men I have met really hate it when a woman has higher education than them (and I am not just talking degrees here).

Here is to you:

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: spy66

I have been fallowing you on a different topic here on ATS. I dont know how much science you understand because it is far from clear.

I understand that you argue that this is wrong. But that is because you have everything wrong from the beginning so it is obvious.

This just prove your intelligence and understanding.

I was hoping you were brighter than this. But i Guess People who argue against creation are nothng but common People With simple minds.

You are just plain rude and arrogant. How dare you judge my intelligence? At least I know how to spell and I speak 3 languages correctly!

I have never ever judged you at all, I have only been critically analyzing Genesis. I have always debated with you in a nice way and although we disagree I have never ever treated you without respect.

But that's ok, I take no offense, most religious men I have met really hate it when a woman has higher education than them (and I am not just talking degrees here).

Here is to you:

I am just staing the abvious. Your mind dont belong here. You dont have what it takes. I am sorry.

I think you belong With the idea you have and fallow. And it is also the one you defend.

You might have a higher education. But that dont mean a thing if you dont undertsnad what you have been thought.

originally posted by: spy66

I am just staing the abvious. Your mind dont belong here. You dont have what it takes. I am sorry.

I think you belong With the idea you have and fallow. And it is also the one you defend.

You might have a higher education. But that dont mean a thing if you dont undertsnad what you have been thought.

Who are you to tell me where my mind belongs or to say I don't have what it takes?
Slander is the tool of the fools, Spy! All you can do as I have been able to argue every verse in Genesis.
I never expected you to get so low....

No other comment as it's pointless but:



I won't debate with you anymore, as you don't know how to do so in a civilized way.
Ta-ta!

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: spy66

I am just staing the abvious. Your mind dont belong here. You dont have what it takes. I am sorry.

I think you belong With the idea you have and fallow. And it is also the one you defend.

You might have a higher education. But that dont mean a thing if you dont undertsnad what you have been thought.

Who are you to tell me where my mind belongs or to say I don't have what it takes?
Slander is the tool of the fools, Spy! All you can do as I have been able to argue every verse in Genesis.
I never expected you to get so low....

No other comment as it's pointless but:

I won't debate with you anymore, as you don't know how to do so in a civilized way.
Ta-ta!

Yes, You have been arguing a few verses in Genesis. And i have told you that you are wrong....every time With a proper explanation. You also seam to be drifting of to other events within genesis before we have actually agreed on the beginning. If we dont get the begining right, nothing else will make sense. So it would be pointless to argue it. With Your education i would assume that you knew that? But you prove that you dont. And that tells me a lot about Your intelligence....if you like it or not. You are the one who is giving me information about Your self. I am not doing anything Your not already doing Your self.


You claim that i am makeing up new Things to make genesis fit into the BB theory. But you are not??? ...You are still hanging on to a story even you know is not correct.... and you are defending it. I am not defending it. I am explaining it.

With Your claimed education i would presume you knew the difference.

In case you dont see it.......You are using what you know is wrong to defend Your case against mine....You have done it more than once...

PS. You probably dont even know what i mean by that.


In the other topic you are involved With you have not cought onto that you People are actually arguing creations millions of years after it actually happened. How briliant is that......



Have you heard the joke about the scientist and God?

- The scientist to God: God i know how to create life from scrach.

- God said: I have to see this.

- The scientist whent to work in his lab, mixed a Bunch of Chemicals and stuff together. And after a while the scientist say: God, see i have created life from scrach.....

- Then God say: But you used my stuff. What i have already created.....!!!

Spy, you have been slightly abusive, or at least condescending towards Agartha, and a couple others.

I don't believe in any god or subscribe to any religion, but I do find the subject and the people who do believe fascinating. You're entitled to believe in what you want and I'm not going to spend my time 'converting' you, or any others. Although I will point out some factual or scientific errors when I read them.

The problems occur when one side or the other derides the other for not believing in their beliefs, whichever side you happen to be on. When you say you have spent a long time coming to your conclusions you're overlooking the fact that others have done the same to come to their own conclusions. It is wrong to insult someone for that.

We are all perfectly entitled to believe in what we want, without any form of abuse for doing so.

a reply to: Agartha

Or this one. "Mockery is the last attempt of a bankrupt intellect"

I"m with you

a reply to: spy66

This just prove your intelligence and understanding. Do you really think God was holding a fluorescent light? Who in their right mind does?

You're the one who missed the boat. Flew over your head, missed the intellectual fortitude train. You can't grow plants in absolute darkness Sherlock. Clearly Agartha was using a little term called sarcasm because with the absence of sunlight, only a florescent light can substitute the nutrients required for photosynthesis. But you didn't even pick up on that because you don't know this.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: spy66

This just prove your intelligence and understanding. Do you really think God was holding a fluorescent light? Who in their right mind does?

You're the one who missed the boat. Flew over your head, missed the intellectual fortitude train. You can't grow plants in absolute darkness Sherlock. Clearly Agartha was using a little term called sarcasm because with the absence of sunlight, only a florescent light can substitute the nutrients required for photosynthesis. But you didn't even pick up on that because you don't know this.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: Agartha

Or this one. "Mockery is the last attempt of a bankrupt intellect"

I"m with you

Thank you!
And I also agree with your quote..... but just in case I have a 'triple facepalm' poster saved! hahaha

I have spent years reading the Bible and fighting with myself when I realized I was loosing my faith..... now I can only say I am glad I 'saw the light'! (pun intended lol)

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: Agartha

Or this one. "Mockery is the last attempt of a bankrupt intellect"

I"m with you

Thank you!
And I also agree with your quote..... but just in case I have a 'triple facepalm' poster saved! hahaha

I have spent years reading the Bible and fighting with myself when I realized I was loosing my faith..... now I can only say I am glad I 'saw the light'! (pun intended lol)

Yes....and you did loose the fight. That is what looser do....they give up and join the crowed With the same intellect as them selves.

I also did point this out. Now give me that third facepalm

a reply to: toktaylor

Creationist does not explain creation, logics/science does. Consider the notion that the universe has always existed and always will exist. Some creationist finds this difficult to accept, and they argue that god makes the universe easier to understand.

You're funny, you just get rid of whatever supports creation.
Even if it's as scientific as the big bang. The universe always
existing and always continuing to exist has been considered.
And is considered to be in opposition to science.

Grasping at straws isn't considered a good argument.

Or the universe just popped into existence, with certain laws of nature
and an intricate tapestry of favorable conditions to support life. Of
which, if just one were missing? No life.
But it didn't end there. The universe after popping into existence
itself, decided to do some of it's own popping. And popped beings
perfectly in line with those favorable conditions. And with the
intelligence to observe and make record of it all. And some people
swallow this crap.

I listen to you scientists and atheistss and am astounded by how
far out on the limb you will go. Just what I have referred to here,
that doesn't even scratch the surface. The odds put you far beyond
any probability of being even remotely possible. They are far
better for creation being true and the Bible being Gods word then
what anyone else is peddlin.

I'm open to something that makes more sense. But no one ever
brings it. You certainly won't.