Climate change cannot be denied

I hear the same arguments all the time.

'But...but...the Milankovitch cycle, the volcanoes, the sunspots!' It's the same old argument and the same old graphs are extracted from rectums all over the globe in an effort to persuade people to think that we have no detrimental effect on the planet. However those facts are true-our planet does go through periods of change that are completely natural such as the aforementioned Milankovitch Cycle

Milankovitch theory describes the collective effects of changes in the Earth's movements upon its climate, named after Serbian geophysicist and astronomer Milutin Milanković, who worked on it during his internment as a POW during the First World War. Milanković mathematically theorized that variations in eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession of the Earth's orbit determined climatic patterns on Earth through orbital forcing.

And Volcanoes

The (Mt. Tambora) eruption caused global climate anomalies that included the phenomenon known as "volcanic winter": 1816 became known as the "Year Without a Summer" because of the effect on North American and European weather. Crops failed and livestock died in much of the Northern Hemisphere, resulting in the worst famine of the 19th century.

And Sunspots

Many climate scientists agree that sunspots and solar wind could be playing a role in climate change, but the vast majority view it as very minimal and attribute Earth’s warming primarily to emissions from industrial activity—and they have thousands of peer-reviewed studies available to back up that claim.

So it has been established that natural variances can attribute to climate change, but why do some people refuse to acknowledge that human activity could also have an adverse affect on our planet? Are sunspots responsible for clearing the Amazon for grazing lands? No. Are volcanoes responsible for Exxon Valdez and the Gulf oil spill? No. Is the Milankovitch cycle responsible for the smog that veils Beijing? no. These acts can be linked to man and our collective efforts could destroy the environment and our folly could lead to the destruction of our atmosphere as well.

I understand that there are natural causes that explain some of the adverse weather effects, but considering the damage we have already done to the flora and fauna then who can say without doubt that we are not guilty of harming the air that we breathe? Some people will say that carbon taxes are all a big scam and that may be true and I agree that taxes won't help-But what happens if the scientists are right? will the diehards take their beliefs to their graves as the storms grow stronger and the droughts last longer in a matter of decades?

We are doing damage to our planet-the destruction of the rainforests, the nuclear tests, the diversion and pollution of rivers and the burying of toxic wastes all contributes to the state of our environment, but yet when it comes to the state of our atmosphere some people (not all) will claim that it's all natural! It's mind boggling.

I know many people are doing the right thing by providing the facts when it comes to natural climatic variations, but a select few aren't willing to peek over the fence and see the what's on the other side, and I wish they would.

The time for blame is over.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I certainly hope that it is real.
I am patiently waiting to get out of bed on a warm January morning, walk out into the backyard in my shorts and bare feet to pick some bananas, oranges and pineapples to make a smoothie.

No heating my house in the winter? Yeah, where's the downside to that?

I don't think climate change has ever been denied.

If you mean Global Warming, yeah, that's never been proven.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Climate change is indisputable fact.


Please note, for the sake of this thread, the part caused by human activity.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Only in the US does science get politicized to the point it is.

Climate change cannot be denied

And neither can the efforts of the unscrupulous to turn it into a money making-scheme.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
I understand that there are natural causes that explain some of the adverse weather effects, but considering the damage we have already done to the flora and fauna then who can say without doubt that we are not guilty of harming the air that we breathe? Some people will say that carbon taxes are all a big scam and that may be true and I agree that taxes won't help-But what happens if the scientists are right? will the diehards take their beliefs to their graves as the storms grow stronger and the droughts last longer in a matter of decades?

But herein lies the problem--this whole paragraph implies reaction based on supposition. Suppose the pro-AGW scientists are right--but what if they're not (and there truly is plenty of evidence to suggest that our effect on overall climate and climate cycles is minimal at best)? And then you imply that the stronger storms and longer-lasting droughts are not integrated into the natural cycles that you acknowledge exist.

I'm glad to see we agree that willful damage to flora and fauna is something that we should always aim to limit (it will never be abolished), but we disagree as to the intensity of the suppposed effect on the climate. Yes, there has been deforestation, but look at places like ancient Mayan civilizations that became so overgrown after being abandoned (some as recently as the late 17th century) that they are lost to the jungle. Even if it were to take 1,000 years to regrow the jungle in areas that were deforested, that is nothing but the blink of an eye in terms of both climatology and effect on the atmosphere.

Maybe I'm just optimistic overall, but I tend to see an amazing resiliency contained in the Earth's environment--there have been many 'catastrophic events' in the history of the Earth, and most likely many that we have not even considered or have remaining indicators for. But yet, here it is, apparently billions of years after its creation, and it's still plugging along while many things inhabiting it have been extinguished and new ones have taken their place. As with climate, there is a cycle to life on earth as well, and they're all intertwined. Earth will always have a way to fix or repair itself, no matter what the living creatures on the face of it do with it.

This is why I'm unconvinced that Earth will cease to exist as we know it--it seems to have relatively stable environments until some external force (comet, asteroid, meteors, mass coronal ejections, or whatever) comes along and alters its course in the blink of an eye. But the reality is that Earth remains, restarts itself, and goes on. I agree that if we want to continue to be a part of it, that we would do well to be the best steward of its resources as possible, but in the end, I'm quite certain that humanity is not going to be what resets Earth on a global scale, and that all of the unknowns and what-ifs associated with AGW alarmism doesn't amount to much in the end, other than possibly making our overly comfortable human existence slightly less comfortable.

And honestly, a bit higher CO2 concentration and a warmer Earth is not unprecedented, nor is it truly a bad thing. Sure, some locales may need to be reconsidered as being great places to live, but if historical and fossil record indicates, altered weather patterns occur in every locale across the globe throughout its history--there has never been a universal paradise on earth everywhere.

And that is a conclusion derived from peeking over all fences.

I don't deny the climate changes, but I question that it changes because of human activity. I also question the reason that it is being foisted upon us as a big issue, especially when we have so many obvious pollution issues that could be addressed right now that have nothing to do with junk science and the Agenda 21 global take over by the NWO.

Yes, we admit humans CAN cause changes to the Earth's climate.

No, we cannot determine weather humans have actually caused changes in the Earth's climate

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Climate change is indisputable fact.

Please note, for the sake of this thread, the part caused by human activity.

I think, for the sake of facts, your last sentence should read: Please note, for the sake of this thread, the part that correlates with human activity.

We all know that correlation does not equal causation, and the cause of our modern (and much more accurately derived) data points is far from certain.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Only in the US does science get politicized to the point it is.

keep in mind, in the US, there are plenty of people demanding creationism is taught alongside evolution...

science is having a lot of trouble with some mindsets. Always has historically though. well, at least they aren't executing scholars anymore who point out new understandings due to blasphemy.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie

The time for blame is over.

not even close. Both sides have devolved into petty snide comments. "head in the sand", "nothing but a tax scheme", "Al Gore is fat". Some claim it's already too late. I seriously doubt that, but I am not a scientist, so my opinion means nothing. Just like 97% of the other opinions out there. (I made up that statistic on the spot. cool huh?)

Instead of trying to convince everyone that Man=Bad, it sure would be nice to see ACTION being taken in regards to our pollution. Things have gotten a wee bit better lately. But, as long as we fill up with unleaded, all the crying and being right will amount to nothing.

The biggest question is: What is more important right now, being the most correct on the internet, or finding ways to change our destructive patterns?

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I agree with many of your points. One problem is deforestation. The US lumber industry is very responsible in replacing harvested lumber. The problem lies in Columbia illegal logging with no local regulations. The US has stepped up it's laws on the importation of lumber from countries that do not follow replanting guidelines.

Now, here's where the rub comes from. If the US is acting in a responsible manner and most others are not. What and who enforce smart guidelines? China and India have been given a pass for 20 year though they are the biggest offenders. They pollute heavily with no recourse. We have meetings like the Tokyo and Toronto Accords that make rules and penalties for the offenders. Yet, China and India are given a "get out of jail" pass because the are developing nations. Where would it be better to start proper techniques than from the beginning?

I grew up on a farm where you learn to be good stewards of the land and the environment. Our livelihood depends on doing the right things. The EPA in Washington, in their fancy offices, have no manure on their boots...just agendas!

As so, you go about your business without a care in the world continuing to help pollute the planet to death.

Regardless of the cause of massive greenhouse gas build-up in the atmosphere, it is happening. Other, human driven, pollution is also destroying the biosphere and making it toxic to human and other life.

We do have the means to mitigate these destructive trends (no - tsumnamis) but not the willingness.

If you want a habitable for your children (which use to be a common motivator for most people) we need to change our life styles.

The "Global Warming isn't manmade" crap is a distraction and a selfish excuse for mental, political, economic and physical effort.

Mankind - as capitalists operate it - is destructive and exploitive. A complete waste of human energy.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Climate change is a fact. Whether humans have caused this, idk. I have gone back and forth on this many times over the last decade and quite frankly I feel like Oprah's body. I do know that deforestation, pollution, overpopulation are also facts. Maybe that is what we should focus on.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Only in the US does science get politicized to the point it is.

keep in mind, in the US, there are plenty of people demanding creationism is taught alongside evolution...

I DID have that in mind when I wrote that sentence. But good call in any case.

science is having a lot of trouble with some mindsets. Always has historically though. well, at least they aren't executing scholars anymore who point out new understandings due to blasphemy.

Fair enough lol.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Climate change cannot be denied

And neither can the efforts of the unscrupulous to turn it into a money making-scheme.

It's a two way street as far as I'm concerned. Big business will do what it takes to preserve their interests and the opposition will follow suit-that's a given.

However if people employed common sense then they'd realize that polluting the atmosphere is bad- it doesn't matter who's side you are on.

a reply to: SaturnFX

science is having a lot of trouble with some mindsets. Always has historically though. well, at least they aren't executing scholars anymore who point out new understandings due to blasphemy.

O really?

Stanley Meyer (1940-1998) - The most famous water car inventor. The American created the 'water fuel cell', claiming that any car fitted with it could run purely on water. A local television station filmed him driving a dune buggy powered by the device. - See more at: henrymakow.com...

The British Advanced Energy Institute reported, 'We recently sent a delegation to witness Stan's work, to really evaluate it, and came back saying "this is one of the most important inventions of the century."'

In 1998, Stanley was murdered. He and his brother Stephen met two Belgian men at a restaurant who claimed to be potential investors. After drinking a sip of cranberry juice, Stanley grabbed his neck and ran outside, where he was violently sick. Stephen recalls, "I ran outside and asked him, 'What's wrong?'. He said, 'They poisoned me.' That was his dying declaration." - See more at: henrymakow.com...

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
However if people employed common sense then they'd realize that polluting the atmosphere is bad- it doesn't matter who's side you are on.

that makes me smile, in a sad way. I doubt anyone disagrees with that statement. But instead of focusing on how to move forward, the argument seems to take precedence.

reminds me of this:

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Climate change is indisputable fact.

Please note, for the sake of this thread, the part caused by human activity.

Oh goody. Yet another post by you that doesn't link to any source whatsoever or engage in discussion beyond some random chart. Is it perhaps from this site, which debunks many denier myths on this page:

The data clearly indicates global warming is happening and is human caused. At this time in the natural cycle Earth should be slightly cooling on trend, leading into what would have been the next ice age. Instead Earth is warming. There is no valid evidence that can prove otherwise.

But that's not really a surprise. You do it over and over and over and over again without remark when called out on it.

At least you got a new chart.