The "Second Coming" gives those in power an excuse to wage war perpetually

originally posted by: intrptr
The argument is that its used as an excuse to start wars.

Surely you can give an example of that? Because no, I've never seen the second coming used as an excuse for war (outside of conspiracy sites that is).

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

This is one of the reasons why I don't support any war that isn't a defensive war (none have occurred in my lifetime since no country is crazy enough to invade the US). War just creates more war. You tear families apart were the survivors then declare vengeance on the aggressor, they go on to become radicalized and we go on an on. Can anyone answer me when a war has actually STOPPED further violence and not led to new and more terrible conflicts? Because I can think of surprisingly few of them (Civil War mostly because of Reconstruction).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Eh, don't tell an European guy than the wars started by the US for the last 40 years were bad things :p

If I remember correctly, the US govt invited to boycott French products because the French dared to say the attack against Iraq was unfounded.

What can you do when the big bully has no one to stand in his way?

a reply to: Develo

I don't see anyone but ISIS blowing up mosques and beheading people. ISIS in the Middle East is the Islamic equivalent if Christianity's Lord's Resistance Army in Africa. They're a terrorist group that kills in the name of Jesus.

What's the difference? You equate what's happening in the Middle East with the entire world for some reason. Why not say the LRA is worldwide as well?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What's the difference? You equate what's happening in the Middle East with the entire world for some reason.

What are you talking about. I specifically said Islamic terrorism happens in Asia (Indonesia, Thailand, Afghanistan ...) Africa (Mali, Algeria, Egypt), Europe (UK, France, Belgium, ...) and even USA (9/11)


Why are YOU focusing on the middle east? I don't know.
And why you keep saying Muslim and Christian fundies are equally dangerous when they are obviously not?

a reply to: DISRAELI

You cannot find concrete examples of war related to the doctrine of the Second Coming, because it hasn't been happening.

What? You are either kidding us or fooling yourself. Wake up! *click click

Are Christians not told to pray for wisdom in a time of war? 

Do you follow this trend?

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom,

it's undeniable really. If you did not see it before, It was the slight of hand...



aaaand sleep. *click

Spot on enlightened1.

a reply to: Wifibrains

How is that an example of using the second coming as an excuse for war?

It's not.

a reply to: Develo

You actually believe 9/11 was Islamic terrorism? If anything it was Israel who carried it out, not Islam.

Like I said, LRA is a Christian terrorist group operating in Africa, Christianity has had its fair share if terrorism throughout history as well, you choose to ignore that fact for some reason.

a reply to: Develo

Vietnam was a mistake on all accounts. We had no business backing up France's imperialist claims to southeast Asia. I understand we were obligated to do so under treaty, but what we did with Vietnam was the opposite of everything we claim to stand for. Self-Determination.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Develo

You actually believe 9/11 was Islamic terrorism? If anything it was Israel who carried it out, not Islam.

Like I said, LRA is a Christian terrorist group praying in Africa, Christianity has had its fair share if terrorism throughout history as well, you choose top ignore that fact for some reason.

I don't ignore anything? I live in the 21st century where currently the worse religious terrorism is Islamic.

It's an American bias to consider Christian fundies have any kind of real global political power whatsoever. They do have influence in the US. But to imagine they could be used and manipulated to start and excuse a war?

Ah!

Even if Christian fundies would be convinced a war was a sign of the end times, they still represent less than 1% worldwide.

So basically this thread is about convincing 1% of the world a war is justified? Good lord who cares!

The 99% others would still say it's BS.

a reply to: Develo

Put yourself in the shoes of those who lived in the past. Christianity was the main cause of terrorism during the Crusades and Inquisitions, do their actions represent the entirety of Christianity? Of course not, so why are you doing that with ISIS and Islamic extremists who make up only 1% of Islam?

You're biased, that's the problem here. You refuse to see any fault with Christianity's 1% but put all blame on Islam's 1%.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Develo

Put yourself in the shoes of those who lived in the past. Christianity was the main cause of terrorism during the Crusades and Inquisitions, do their actions represent the entirety of Christianity? Of course not, so why are you doing that with ISIS and Islamic extremists who make up only 1% of Islam?

You're biased, that's the problem here. You refuse to see any fault with Christianity's 1% but put all blame on Islam's 1%.

Lol, I'm not even a Christian so I don't feel the need to refuse to see Christianity's fault? The Vatican is greedy and passé. Chrisitian fundies are crazy. The Spanish inquisiation was bad.

SO?

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand and they are all moot points.

The topic is "could the second coming be used as an excuse to start wars" and the answer is "not as long as Christian fundies represent only 1% of the world".


You seem super anti-Christian to the point you consider radical Christians are currently as dangerous as radical Islam.


Lol whatever this is insane.

a reply to: Develo

The LRA is just as dangerous as ISIS, they just don't have American and Israeli dollars backing them.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So they are not just as dangerous.

Got it.



Call me back when the LRA starts a global Jihad and asks all Christians worldwide to prepare for the imminent return of Jesus.

Until then all the Christians I know simply think "lol crazy fundies" just like when they try to say the world is 6000 years old according to the Bible.

a reply to: Wifibrains
At the very most, that is "religion and war".
It is NOT "the Second Coming and war".
You cannot use the first to prove the second.

I'm feeling too lazy for a new answer, I'll just repeat an old one;

What I am noticing with the OP and yourself is;
Stage 1; A dramatic argument was put forward linking war with the doctrine of the Second Coming.
Stage 2; You found it impossible to find any practical examples of what was being claimed.
Stage 3; You were obliged to fall back on the old faithful standby, "wars caused by religion", and try to use that as a substitute. Thus the argument gets a little desperate as you look for non-existent connections between the evidence you put forward and the original over-hyped case.

The argument presented in the opening post has been found indefensible because it was overstated for dramatic effect.
You cannot find concrete examples of war related to the doctrine of the Second Coming, because it hasn't been happening.

a reply to: Develo

Terrorism is terrorism, all factions have their versions of it, some are better funded than others. Islam is not the only problem in the world today, all religion and they all have their extremists. Thing is, those in power have to have someone to be their "fall guy", it just so happens to be Islam with ISIS.

You're putting blame on Islam as a whole, ISIS does not represent Islam in any way just as WBC and LRA don't represent Christianity as a whole.

What they all share in common though is their anticipation of the Apocalypse.

originally posted by: Develo
a reply to: Wifibrains

How is that an example of using the second coming as an excuse for war?

It's not.

Because there are no excuses for war. Only reasons. War is waged.

The excuses are mainly propaganda to rally support and direct public opinion towards a soothing justification in the name of god or good.

a reply to: Wifibrains

Still not an example of using the second coming as a reason for war.

But please keep insisting this is something that is happening currently because...? This is funny.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The argument was never that the Second Coming is used specifically as the excuse to go to war, the argument was that the Apocalypse/Second Coming has been a facilitator for these wars to be fought with impunity.

People have been saying the end is coming for thousands of years now based on the prophecies in Revelation. People look forward to the Apocalypse because they believe it heralds their salvation and Jesus' return, so they do not stand against it like they should.

You're drawing out an argument that was never made except for the word "excuse" in the title. Maybe I worded the title wrong but that doesn't change the premise of the thread one bit. Did you not read the OP? Or did you just read the title and assume?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

This is what you posted in the OP:

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
It has resulted in countless wars being accepted because "Jesus is coming", the majority being complacent about them being waged on that basis. Even today we see Christians celebrating the coming of ISIS because they believe it is prophecy being fulfilled.

Sorry but it's not only a generalization of the beliefs of a few American fundamentalists, it's also a huge pile of BS and will remain that way unless you can post example of what I quoted above.



ps; and I don't say this to "defend" christians or whatever. I sincerely even believe Christian fundies are crazy. But what you posted in the OP? Crazy too.