Students Surprised to Find Noah's Ark Feasible

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I should be clear: i am not Christian, nor do I give any cares whatsoever for whether or not Noah existed.

I am an Esotericist, and revel in the mathematical prowess of ancient engineering.

That is the entire point of my entry into the thread a couple of posts back. This was posted in the science and technology forum. To me it is less about proving Noahs story true, but more about a display of mathematical prowess from the dark recesses of mankinds history.

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion
a reply to: arpgme

How did he stop them from eating each other?

They were probably kept in separate areas on the ark. Duh...

And was the extra lumber and weight of such enclosures accounted for in the equations determining the ark could float?

Where was all the food?

It is well known that then animals is transported in a boat, and in stormy conditions, they hibernate, so no food needed, or at least, not very much.

Have a citation for this phenomena? SOME animals will hibernate, as a result of reduced food supplies. But by no means do ALL animals hibernate in these conditions, especially when their prey might be a few enclosures away.

Where was their "waste" ?

In hibernation, they do not produce "waste".
This is absolutely false. While metabolic processes are slowed during hibernation(for the select few creatures this would apply to) those processes to not at all cease functioning. To maintain body heat during hibernation, the animal must burn calories. an inevitable physiological response to this process is creation and elimination of waste products.

How did ge go all the way to China to get pandas and all the way to America to get buffulo. He would literally have to travel across the 7 oceans as well as seek out all of these animals across all the nations.

You assume that that they lived where they live now. Camel remains have even been found in the arctic!

So where else have Panda remains been found? and what evidence do you have for all of these creatures being anywhere near the Middle East at the time this allegedly occurred?

Please do some research, or sometimes thinking, before commenting. Google is a great tool to use....

please take your own advice and actually look at ALL the pertinent facts as opposed to only the ones that corroborate your pet hypothesis while discounting or completely ignoring those that do not.

You call people to task to do their research before posting yet your reply here is littered with assumptions that for the most part can not be substantiated by science or reality as well as many statements of fact that are equally as baseless as your assumptions. Google is a great tool that you yourself could apparently benefit from. I would start with googling "Humility".

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

But the calculations in the study are flawed. They just chose an arbitrary number of animals to put on the boat. Why 70,000? Why not 100,000? Why not 1,000,000?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shadow Herder
Noah was not the only one to survive the flood. All over the world each culture holds a story of the great flooding which was most likely caused by volcanoes, tsunamis and the rapid melting of the ice age.

No, that's not true at all. Not every culture has a flood myth. Yes flood myths are common, but they aren't native to all cultures.

Ignorance is your friend today. Get your head out of your butt and do some reading son. www.talkorigins.org...
Every continent and their cultures holds a flood myth and a flood survivor myth.

The flood is real its too bad peoples ignorance and hatred for anything religious will make them blind to the facts.

Also people taking the bible literally is just plain stupid.

The flood was probably the story of a larger than normal flood in the Mesopotamian area. At the time, that was considered the whole world. Consider that the curvature of the earth would make it look like the whole earth was flooded if the flood was large enough.

Again, ignorance fueled from not reading.

Eastern Brazil (Rio de Janiero region):
Two twin sons of a great wizard, one good and the other evil, were always arguing. One day the angered good brother stamped so hard that the earth opened and water gushed out, shooting as high as the clouds. The water covered the whole world. The good brother and his wife climbed a pindona tree, and the evil brother and his wife climbed a geniper tree until the waters receded. (In another account, they survived in canoes.) From these couples descended the Tupinambas and Tominus, two tribes which don't get along well. [Vitaliano, p. 175; Gaster, pp. 124-125]

Papua New Guinea:
A flood covered the whole world except for the summit of Mount Tauga. When the waves threatened to cover even that, the rockface cracked and the diamond-studded head of Radaulo, king of snakes, emerged. His fiery tongue licked out to taste the waves, and the water, hissing, retreated. Radaulo slowly uncoiled and pursued the water all the way back to the ocean bed. [Eliot, p. 224]

Southwest Tanzania (Rukwa Region):
The rivers began flooding. God told two men to go into a ship, taking with them all sorts of seed and animals. The flood rose, covering the mountains. Later, to check whether the waters had dried up, the man sent out a dove, and it came back to the ship. He waited and sent out a hawk, which did not return because the waters had dried. The men then disembarked with the animals and seeds. [Gaster, pp. 120-121]

www.talkorigins.org... Hundreds more from AROUND THE WORLD at the link.

a reply to: marg6043

I believe 3 has been built, another is under construction

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Sadly predictable that this would become a conversation about postulations over whether or not Noah existed, or if he repopulated the entire planet.

The point that is being missed, and that is being presented by the linked article, is that the math works. The tale of Noah wasn't just some goober making nonsense up sitting by the campfire. Or, if it was, that goober was an exceptional guesser.

It doesn't have anything to do with proving the veracity of the bible. It has everything to do with proving that whoever wrote this stuff was of a fine mathematical mind.

Normally I would agree with you. Except that in this particular case, the math itself is rather arbitrary.

Per the OP,

The students used 48.2cm (almost 19 inches) as the length of a cubit to estimate the total dimensions of the ark.

The problem quickly arises in that Ancient Egyptian cubits range from 523 to 529 mm (20.6 to 20.8 in) in length.

The Sumerian cubit was about 518.6 mm or 20.42 in.

And the "Biblical" cubit is usually estimated as approximately 450 mm or 18 in.


None of the historically accepted measurements were utilized in this project. An arbitrary number was adapted, creating a "new" cubit that was easier for them to work with as opposed to doing mockups based on the known and accepted cubit lengths used historically in the region of the alleged flood incident/Noah/Gilgamesh story. The truth or historical legitimacy of the story completely aside, this isn't a recreation of Bronze Age engineering. It's a modern recreation based on modern concepts. Now if they had run all the applicable numbers and all or even some of them worked I would completely agree with you that this was impressive and cool. However, it just is not the case when making up your own number for the length of a cubit and then plugging that into the equation. It makes me wonder if the historically accepted measurements did not in fact float so they approximated until they got a number that worked on paper.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

Flood myths on all continents isn't surprising since flooding occurs on all continents. Your link doesn't prove that ALL cultures of the past have flood myths though. Just that many did. Perhaps you don't know the definition of all? For instance, no Aztec myth.

Another problem is that not all of these flood myths occurred at the same time. Just because all these cultures have had flood myths doesn't mean it was the same flood.

originally posted by: IndependentOpinion

It is well known that then animals is transported in a boat, and in stormy conditions, they hibernate, so no food needed, or at least, not very much.
...
Please do some research, or sometimes thinking, before commenting. Google is a great tool to use....

Best quote EVAR!

This is pure gold.

Also, how would someone of the ancient world know if a flood covered the entire Earth? The range of travel was really, really small in Man's distant past...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shadow Herder

Flood myths on all continents isn't surprising since flooding occurs on all continents. Your link doesn't prove that ALL cultures of the past have flood myths though. Just that many did. Perhaps you don't know the definition of all? For instance, no Aztec myth.

Another problem is that not all of these flood myths occurred at the same time. Just because all these cultures have had flood myths doesn't mean it was the same flood.

The Aztec claim to formally be the Aztlan people who left their land because a flood sunk their lands. Are you ok?

"In the Codex Borturini there is an account of a migration of the Aztecs from the island of Aztlán to the Valley of Mexico (Gemelli Careri, 1699). Other Aztec traditions give accounts of a Great Flood (Bierhorst, 1992) which destroyed the Sun called Nahui-atl ("4-Water") in which all mankind was destroyed and drowned: "The sky came nearer the water. In a single day all was lost, and the day Nahui-xochitl, '4 flower,' destroyed all our flesh." (Codex Chimalpopoca, translated by Brasseur de Bourbourg, 1857-1859)"

a reply to: peter vlar

well...then there is that.

the search for funding and what have you.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

Ok. Fine. But you still haven't produced any evidence that these are all the same floods. Again it floods everywhere.

Let's forget the stories of the past for a minute and look at DEFINITIVE evidence. Why is there no evidence in the geologic record of a world wide flood? We can see evidence in the geologic record of local floods (including a larger than normal one in Mesopotamia that could have been Noah's), yet no record of a world wide flood.

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes
Also, how would someone of the ancient world know if a flood covered the entire Earth? The range of travel was really, really small in Man's distant past...

By reading and understanding stories from people who lived around the world and thanks to intelligence, internet, travelers we have learned and accumulated this knowledge today we can see that all peoples around the world suffered something but in the past it was easy to see that if the oceans rose in one place it was going to be high every where. else, ergo, global.

a reply to: IndependentOpinion

Have any stand the test of time? to prove the theory or story of Noah's Ark?

a reply to: marg6043

No they are all on barges as I said earlier or were never put in the water. IndependentOpinion failed to mention that to you.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Shadow Herder

Nope. Sorry Ctrl+F Aztlan produces no results as well.

There is more than one webpage(source) out there kid.
lmgtfy.com...

You should stop as you are just bleeding ignorance at this point.

lmgtfy.com...


Aztec
There are several variants of the Aztec Flood story. One of the more famous is that of Nota, the Aztec version of Noah. However, this story is controversial for several reasons, especially because it was recorded by Spanish scribes well after Christian culture had a chance to interact with Aztec civilization.www.newworldencyclopedia.org...

a reply to: IndependentOpinion


Booya! Two days in a row. LMAO
What's so funny?
People who are asking the questions in regards to
to the account the Bible renders of Noah's ark to
make it seem impossible. All the time forgetting that
it's impossible to make it sound impossible, because
the story includes God. So I LMAO at these supposed
intellectuals ( not always on screen ) who can't keep
that much straight in their own minds. I've allowed
them to win arguements because I was laughing so
hard.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

Edited my post already. How about dropping the snark by the way? I don't recall being snarky to you.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trust me I knew that, I just wanted him to answer, thanks for addressing the littler fact that was "omitted"

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thank you Texan for jumping in. I regret even responding to the first off-topic post made.


Here is the reason why the ICR had the story, and why I linked them. They are very much involved in the construction of a life-sized Ark, called the Ark Encounter.

Back to the main topic at hand.

It is also impressive to see that the Ark was built using the best size ratio for seaworthiness.

In Genesis 6:15, God instructed Noah to build an ark that was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. This is a ratio of 30 to 5 to 3 (length to breadth to height). Until about 1858, the ark was the largest floating ship ever created. In terms that we understand better, the ark was about 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. In 1844, a man named Isambard K. Brunnel built his giant ship, the Great Britain. He used almost the exact ratio of the ark—30:5:3. As it turns out, these dimensions are the perfect ratio for a huge boat built for seaworthiness and not for speed.

www.apologeticspress.org...

And again, the link might be a link to an "christian" site, but that does not made the content I quoted any less truth.