Suicide. A difficult topic.

One reason why suicide is a difficult topic is because we worry that a depressed person could be pushed to act on his or her desire to be gone. So let me say to anyone who is depressed and wanting out, please wait. Things will likely improve, so hang in there.

Having said this, I want to note that the word suicide has a very powerful negative connotation, and sometimes it is deserved in my opinion such as when a person leaves their family without warning and in good physical health. But sometimes the "s" word is a logical decision by a person who insists that he or she has full control over the thing that makes them alive, their bloody life. Whether it is long term pain or significant disability, or whether the person is saying "no more of this", it should be up to all humans how long they want to live.

Me, at the age of 65, I want to live quite a bit longer. So I eat an ultra healthy diet, and I exercise regularly, so I am doing all the right things to make my life as long as it can naturally and healthily be. But since I am very independent in nature, and I live alone, I'm going to be extremely reluctant to be placed in a care facility when I can't take care of myself. Then I will have to make a decision, and please don't tell me I don't have the right.

I look at suicides in multiple angles. For instance , suicidal could be the soul wants to go back to its original state . Not handling the pressure of this earthly experience.

Also I find it hard to overcome the fact that we decide our pets who suffer in life to pass them to the other side.
But if we want that choice of our own , society condemned the freedom of dying.

I do think its dangerous to setup life ending clinics with proper overseeing . But I do think people have the right to end their lives if they're having a really hard time surviving this world mental sickness or other life threatening diseases.

a reply to: droid56

So let me say to anyone who is depressed and wanting out, please wait. Things will likely improve, so hang in there.

Let's add a little to that.

If you're considering suicide please seek help, and please don't do it.

There are many places you can get help, from suicide hotlines to family and friends. There are tons of people that care about you. You may not know them personally, but they're out there. I'm one of them, and anyone going through that should feel free to message me and talk things out. I've been close to that feeling, and it was horrible. All the platitudes you hear when depressed or when you get to that point don't mean crap. We've all heard suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but I realize when you're at that point it sure doesn't feel that way.

There are therapists, crisis centers, suicide hotlines, hospitals, and people you would never expect that all want to help, even if they don't know you. People don't volunteer or choose a profession helping those who are suffering with these thoughts for fun, they desperately want to help, and they can.

If you're having trouble I'm pretty sure anyone on ATS would lend a sympathetic ear, help you find a place to get help in your area, and be a caring friend. If you're reading this you have an internet connection and can find all of these close to you. Don't discount speaking with local clergy either. You don't need to be religious to find help from caring people.

You don't have to struggle with these feelings alone, and you shouldn't.

I'm not a big fan of platitudes, especially in this situation because I know they sound so hollow to people who are suffering, but it does get better, you are loved, and when you get to that low realize you're at the low and you have the power to feel better.

Click here for a list of resources for immediate help.

-----

OP I tend to agree that at a certain point people that are suffering should certainly be allowed to pass with dignity and skip the needless suffering. I struggle with this on account of my religious beliefs, but I can't see God wanting anyone to spend months or years in agonizing pain when they know the end is near. It certainly shouldn't be my call or the states.

Many many years ago I read a potent paper on the difference between the West and the USSR.

The real difference was that those in the West could leave if they wanted to and those in the USSR could not due in principle to the myriad of minefields keeping everyone in.

But then, it is against the law, an offense to suicide in many countries, which is really silly. It only applies if you are unsuccessful and mostly, an attempted suicide is likely a call for help.

Why should wanting to leave a society be a crime?

The answer is, because society, taken as a whole, does not like admitting that it sucks.

Note that many countries handle the issue differently, such as Japan.

Why is it so wrong to want to leave.

P

For me, the decision to commit suicide would be just like any other in life. Although it would depend on the circumstances, the train of thought is quality of life and potential to improve. I would have to weigh it out and decide. I cannot imagine have the nerve to do it but I realize that could change. I agree that having to be cared for in a facility is most likely not an option. In my 15 yrs experience working in various establishments that "care" for the elderly, I find the notion a dreadful thought. Who wants to be thrown around like a sack of potatoes and treated like an inconvenience? More often than not, residents get yelled at for attempting something they may very well be capable of doing. This fuels the fire of uselessness, depression, and fear in the person. Staff workers that do most of the care are emotionally immature, uneducated and more worried about their smoke break than meeting an individuals needs. The downward spiral in health facilitates as a result. The families that do visit, eventually wonder about behavioral changes they notice. Staff reassures convincingly with great concern that unfortunately "it's their natural cognitive decline" which is not the entire truth. The fact is, grandma is merely acting "less there" because she is not treated like she is a human being. This type of conditioning is tragic and heartbreaking as "grandma" deserves the best. What does she get?

There ARE better scenarios out there but the one I describe is commonplace from my experience. Getting old sucks. I'm not there yet, but closing in on it. For those 65 and older, I salute you!!!


a reply to: 0bserver1

As a suicide survivor (my mother) and someone who has struggled with feeling suicidal at different points in my life I want this made clear... most of the so called help out there MAKES IT WORSE!

Suicide hotlines and statements such as "It won't always be this way" or the one I hate the most "Don't turn a temporary problem in to a permanent one," are more likely to push a suicidal person to act. They don't help and actually hurt the sufferer.

As far as I am concerned, a suicide hotline should never ever be manned by someone who hasn't struggled with suicidal idealization themselves, because face it, people who have never dealt with these feelings don't have a friggin clue what it is like and it shows. People who don't know what it is like, no matter how well intentioned make ignorant statements that make someone in a bad and dangerous mental state worse.


So what should one do to help? LISTEN! Say comforting things like;

*I am hear if you need an ear or a shoulder

*I care about what you are dealing with,even if I don't understand

*Is there anything I can do

*You aren't alone

*I don't judge you

Never place judgment or try to make a suicidal person feel guilty for how they feel. The more they feel their feelings are validated and feel safe to express their feelings, the less likely they are to carry out suicide.

I am on my own personal mission to expose the dangers of some suicide hotlines. The national suicide hotline routes its calls to different call centers. Some are good, some are poor, and some are extremely dangerous.

My problems are permanent. My children are dead. I have no living family. None at all. I am trying to go on but many days finding a reason to want to go on seems near impossible, and if it gets to the point I just can't bare to live without my children anymore, I want to be able to take matters into my own hands. Judgment and guilt over feeling that way will be the quickest way to get me there.

My problems are permanent. My children are dead. I have no living family. None at all. I am trying to go on but many days finding a reason to want to go on seems near impossible, and if it gets to the point I just can't bare to live without my children anymore, I want to be able to take matters into my own hands. Judgment and guilt over feeling that way will be the quickest way to get me there.

a reply to: calstorm

I would give you a hundred stars if I could. So instead some advice if I may be so bold.

Try to find the small beauty in life. Tomorrow is always soon enough. You are loved by all of those who do care, even if they do not know you.




P

a reply to: pheonix358
Thank you pheonix358. Those are beautiful words, and very helpful. The quote from the pic you posted couldn't be more perfect.

a reply to: Domo1

Hello there

When you get to the point where action overcomes thought, there is no help. You don't want it.
By definition you are not thinking clearly, so it's very hard to go and get help. When all options to you fill you with overwhelming pressure, stress, heartache, upset and loss of hope. Suicide, or rather the hope of not being able to think or feel becomes desirable and at a point you then act automatically and you as a being tend to take a back seat.

Regards

a reply to: calstorm

Hello there.

Mate so sorry to hear how you are thinking and feeling. I know how you feel, not so much about your circumstances but your sorrow etc.

I'm a survivor of my own actions. Here if you want to chat.

a reply to: Aboom

It's a strange world with amazingly divided boundaries of rules we all live by. We wage wars , law and order but allow killing to end someone's life on the basis of a threatening situation , not always proved by the system itself and allowed to continue without any regulation by the same law that rejects euthanasia.

My grandfather turned ninety one , we all cheered his health and kindness . But the man suffered allot mentally and emotionally by the loss of his daughter. The only one who cared for him . When we stopped celebrating his birthday. He asked us when he could die , he refused to turn ninety two. .

A few months later he died , I was with him when he died. He suffered and they gave him morphine and muscle relaxants. But they weren't allowed to give just that much that ended this agony I and my family had to watch. At one point the nurse laughed and said , he's a tough one and don't want to die that easy. I flamed her and said to give him more to end this now and quick he didn't deserve to suffer as he did also knowing he wanted to die .

Finally the nurse complied our wishes to increase the dosis and he died soon after.

I have been handcuffed and locked up in a cell for 24 hours for having such thoughts, then had to undergo an assessment before being released. Circumstance sucks and i would not have the courage to do it anyway, you can threaten, but to carry out THE act takes some gonads.

Big Hugs all round

originally posted by: calstorm
most of the so called help out there MAKES IT WORSE!

Absolutely agree 110%

Sometimes, all a person needs is understanding, and as simple human beings most people have very little and so they pretend to understand to satisfy their own ignorance which creates confusion and frustration to the person in NEED.

Also, as someone who has been to hell and back (a couple of times) and contemplated suicide, I can say that sometimes those closest to us have the least understanding. Sucks!

I believe the key is to accept the problems of someone suicidal first, this at least means they don't feel let down so much, then, understanding would be more likely to follow.

Words can be so damaging at times, even if they're said in kindness and a hug goes a long long way and can be an incredible release of energy ... all it needs silence. A hug cannot be given on a hotline over the phone.

Suicide is a final attempt at making "it" stop, whatever "it" is.

IMO - Suicide is horrible and for one to think that it is acceptable to take one's own life comes from a sick society. Society is based upon a FEW trend setters that quickly becomes an acceptable "way of life" .

Originally being tattooed was a sign of being a convicted criminal....... today many believe getting a tattoo is cool.

The same with piercing your flesh.

Now today people have implants, breasts enlargements, horns on their heads... etc ..... because it is acceptable in society but does that make it right? Since asking entire communities, states or federal law by a vote hardly exist in these matters, the few realize they will not be challenged so they force their ideas on people no matter what consequences it has on the general public including small children which they (children) become programmed into believing it is an acceptable way of life. Just like suicide is now accepted.

Simply because we live in a free world with little to no boundaries does not make something right and acceptable to the public. Decades ago when homosexuality was illegal - the homosexuals had to keep quite and keep it secret inside their home. Today homosexual couples can kiss in public and adopt children and raise them in a homosexual environment. Is that right? Ask a child and see what they tell you. I am not attacking or defending homosexuals.

Society has become sick. No matter if it is right or wrong - a person's opinion must be accepted. I totally disagree with this. A community must have laws and have morals as to what is an acceptable according to all of humanity in general and not to the few who demand their choices be accepted by everyone with the SICK government protecting them of their sick unmoral beliefs. Morality laws hardly exist and are not seen as such........what a shame.

No wonder our kids are killing one another. Look at what they see as acceptable human behaviour.

Last year, when I was recovering from a stroke I wanted out so badly. I was checking the Dignitas website out. I had just suffered a stroke and was living with a recurant brain tumour I couldn't even walk myself to the bathroom for a pee. I was being hoisted in and out of bed by nurses in and out of a wheel chair. My dr put me on suicide watch, I was permanently having my room checked for any sharp objects I was having my medication checked to make sure I wasn't storing any. I was thinking of ways that would be painless and quick. I was put on a large dose of anti depressant and having psychologists meetings most days. I did get over it, but it took a while. In fact it's good that there wasn't somewhere like dignitas or somewhere where you can have the right to die, because I would probably have used it. I did have the support of family friends and great medical team who helped me get through it. I also found value to life in the rehabilitation program. Learning to walk again set some great goals and seeing yourself achieve goals really makes a difference. The anti depressants were also a god send in my opinion. They helped me get through a day, which meant I could get through the next day. I've been depressed before, but nothing like suicidal before. It's scary, how sad it's possible to get at times. I was in tears all day everyday for 2 weeks straight experiencing a sadness I never thought possible. I'm so glad I'm still here, even though my life is still tough with a bleak future. I still enjoy being alive.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Hate to say it but most of what you say in your post, although true to an extent, has little bearing on the subject in hand. You speak more of peer pressure and the image and perception of society as a whole and seem to point towards attention seeking as an excuse for suicide. This is the ignoranced I spoke of.

Let me tell you that suicide has many facets and more often than not it is the most private and isolated affair, not a show for spectators but the last action of a desperate person who sees and feels nothing positive beyond the moment.

The frustration, confusion and hollowness becomes unbearable to the point where it HAS to stop. That option unfortunately involves the destruction of the conscious self in the process. I also believe it is the ultimate "f*** o**" to those who are too selfish or stupid to take the person seriously enough to help. A parting gift of guilt if you like.

a reply to: nerbot

I do understand exactly what you are saying. Don't get me wrong with my message - it also applies to suicide. Are you aware there is a healthy man in Belgium who is doing life for murder who can not adjust to prison life so he has requested the state to let him commit suicide?

Another who had a brain tumor was allowed to commit suicide before any of the symptoms appeared.

Take a look at woodwardjnr post...... he wanted to give up and quit BUT he did not and that is my point. Can you see it? Do you understand.

Noone one this earth should support ANYONE who contemplates suicide. Can you see into the future? I can't and I have been to many cancer wards and seen some who I just knew were going to die any day and yet they survived. So I KNOW "throwing in the towel" and giving up comes from people who support this sick trend.

My daughter lying in a hospital ICU for eight months thought the same way, but I held her hand everyday and night and gave her positive and encouraging words and she not only survived but is grateful. Today she admits suicide is wrong even though she demanded it.

The human body can go through all kinds of harsh punishment and survive.... it is the spirit that gives up. This way of thinking is wrong and anyone who has not lived through it should keep their mouth shut.

I have had more than one family member go through chemo therapy along with all the pain and suffering it comes with and everyone one of them are still here with us today.

Who hasn't had thoughts of suicide? Very few if any.

So where do you draw the line with suicide?

Suicide has become a trend.

OH BTW - I had a relative commit suicide and it left the family in shock and turmoil.

a reply to: droid56

Life is to short for thinking thoughts like that droid ,just take it one day at a time like most folk do worry about tomorrow another day

Carpe diem , happy thoughts droid , happy thoughts

**Hiya Folks**

I just wanted to add this little reminder from the T&C. Since this is a difficult topic, it's important to remember the following:

Threats of suicide, discussion of past suicide attempts, or asking for advice on ways to commit suicide are also forbidden and will result in immediate account termination

T&C

ATS is not a mental health clinic or board and we cannot facilitate help on these issues. The current discussion as is, does not in any way violate the T&C, I'm just posting a heads up so that everything remains that way.

Please do not reply to this post. It is a public service announcement.

~Tenth
ATS Super Mod

My life is MINE! It doesn't belong to a god, a religion, the majority vote, the government, or another individual! Don't tell me I have to be here if I choose not to be! The self-righteousness and arrogance of those who think they are qualified to judge the personal pain and suffering of another infuriates me, and makes me feel grieved to the point of illness! If YOU haven't been there don't presume you have any idea what it's like! AT ALL! Having said that...

When it comes to suicide, critical thinking skills seem to get suspended. The majority of people resort to their religious or societal programming. STOP! Think! Empathize as best you can! And most of all. Keep your judgements to yourself! Those contemplating suicide are rarely mentally ill in the clinical sense. They are mentally broken, and they have reached their coping limit. Their pain and anguish threshold have been crossed. They just want it to stop!

Wanna help someone who is contemplating suicide? Don't blanket it, and stereotype it. Treat each case individually. If you can't have the empathy and compassion for them they need. Find someone who can. Quickly. Don't preach at them, or speak of religious or societal ethics and taboos. If you do, you will push them over the edge. Deal with their problems directly. The best thing you can do is LISTEN. Intently. Don't just tell them your concern or love for them. Let them feel it. Make them feel it. Literally be there for them.

It's time our society deals with this issue, instead of hiding it in the dark recesses of our mind. It's time we stop repressing it. It's time we stop hiding it in the attic or basement like some people used to do long ago when they were ashamed of their offspring. They would hide them, or have them committed.

Sorry. This is one of my buttons.