The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun

a reply to: butcherguy

You can try to hide it with humor, but you are obviously afraid.

Your words are but a reflection of your own fear, mate.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
Interesting.

I guess me and my family must be a statistical fluke.

We have quite a few guns now that have been added over the years, and yet there has not been one gunshot fatality, nor anyone harmed by a gun.

Same goes for all my neighbors around me.

There was one death that happened out here though many months ago. A woman was shot to death.

A cop shot her.

Of course he had responded to a call from her, threatening suicide, and she answered the door with what looked like a weapon that she pointed at him. Turned out to be a pellet gun.

So this area I live in must be statistically crazy. No deaths from privately owned guns. The only one was by law enforcement.

It's a nice try, but anecdotal "evidence" in no way trumps statistical evidence.
If anything, it simply shows a misunderstanding of what statistical evidence actually means.

The stupidity of the whole argument about "death by firearm" in the U.S. is it makes up about 0.01% of the total deaths in America.
About 15,000 people are killed by firearms in the U.S.
About 20,000 die from the Flu.
About 180,000 die from Doctor screw ups in Hospitals in the U.S.

So to make this clearly understood you are like 12 times more likely to have your doctor kill you "making you better" than you are to die by a firearm.

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

Put quite simply, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that more guns = more deaths from guns,

And?
People die from all sorts of things.

Should we ban guns?

Would it solve anything?

Heroin is illegal. You can buy it just about anywhere.

Yes, guns should be banned.
They are nothing more than a device that was invented to kill other humans.

To my knowledge, there is no other "product" on the market, and so freely available that was invented for the sole purpose of killing another human.

Are you missing the point?
No doctor in the US can prescribe heroin, it is totally illegal. Yet it is readily available on the black market. The raw material isn't grown here. Yet it is easily bought, no age restrictions, no tests, no getting a permit.
Guns can be made in a garage or basement.
If you ban them, who enforces the law?
Police.... with GUNS.
Hypocrite.

a reply to: budski

Thank you for your response

I'm hoping you didn't read into my question the thought that I was asking if you knew what you were talking about, in a snarky tone. I was not.

Am I to take it you live in the UK? From my first hand knowledge of anti-gun societies like the UK, you are raised to believe that guns are bad. They do bad things.

Here in the states, I was taught that people do bad things, not things. A pissed off knife didn't come along and force me to take six stitches, I did it. Entirely my fault. Given my propensity for "Jackass 1&2" style maneuvers, I believe I am doing the right thing as an adult in not owning a gun.

Yet, being born and raised in the states, and that it is my right as a US citizen to do so, I do not fear lawful gun ownership.

a reply to: budski

Not if the STATISTICAL originators are bias and onlt ask a SELECTED group.
Statistics again...
Prepare to dive.

a reply to: budski

Oh I know what it means.

It's something that someone can use to show anything they want.

What I want you to show me is your proof that guns were only made to kill humans.

Please. Let us see your documented evidence that the first guns were made just for that, and nothing else.

That all guns were never intended to be used for anything else but killing humans.

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: butcherguy

Your accusing words are but a reflection o your own fear, mate.

I am not accusing, I am observing.

People want their nanny government to ban things because they fear them.

How's that knife ban working out in the UK?

Oh, wait....

a reply to: eriktheawful

I guess me and my family must be a statistical fluke.

Apparently, so is mine. 50 years old, been shooting since I was about 6 [ Maybe younger, I don't remember a time I was not shooting ] and I've never had a accident with a firearm. I honestly don't know anyone who has. Growing up around guns, is like growing up around lions. You quickly learn respect for something that bites.
But, no matter how many times we prove we are responsible gun owners, the anti side will come along and try to "protect" us from ourselves. When are you guys going to get it? We Are Keeping Them and no amount of whining on your part is going to change that. You are so damn worried about me? Stop getting my blood pressure to go up with your constant attempts to run my life.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

Put quite simply, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that more guns = more deaths from guns,

And?
People die from all sorts of things.

Should we ban guns?

Would it solve anything?

Heroin is illegal. You can buy it just about anywhere.

Yes, guns should be banned.
They are nothing more than a device that was invented to kill other humans.

To my knowledge, there is no other "product" on the market, and so freely available that was invented for the sole purpose of killing another human.

Are you missing the point?
No doctor in the US can prescribe heroin, it is totally illegal. Yet it is readily available on the black market. The raw material isn't grown here. Yet it is easily bought, no age restrictions, no tests, no getting a permit.
Guns can be made in a garage or basement.
If you ban them, who enforces the law?
Police.... with GUNS.
Hypocrite.

No, Police in this country are not usually armed.

I'm not missing any point, I'm seeing you back up my assertion that the only evidence gun advocates have is anecdotal, and when that fails they resort to ad hominem attack rather than stick to the topic at hand.

Look at the data in the article (have you even read it? ) then come back and discuss it like a rational human being.

but......but....I want to go hiking in bear country......with.....with my grandkids.....ok, I'll just tell them they're bait......

originally posted by: Shamrock6
How's that knife ban working out in the UK?

Oh, wait....

At one point right before I was supposed to move to the UK (which fell through), the UK courts wanted to ban cooking knives. Apparently, most violent crimes of passion in the UK involve kitchen knives. My english Ex always used kitchen sheers, not knives.

So, no legal handguns....and murder where knives are the instrument of choice?

No knives, and basball/cricket bats become the scourge of humanity du jour? Hockey sticks? Stones? Geese? Pasta?

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: budski

Out of curiosity, do you own a gun? Have you? Have you ever discharged a gun?


The people I know with either or both a concealed carry permit or the appropriate permit to open carry are very level headed.

To a one, they have all said that they are held under such a high standard due to this, that they MUST think about their actions more so than when they did not own a gun. The reason being? Because owning a gun opens them to greater legal culpability.

For full disclosure, I do NOT own a gun. I make the conscious choice as an adult not to do so. I do this because I *KNOW* I've been proven time and time again to do stupid sh&t with hand knives which involve stitches on my own person. Given that, I chose not to own a gun for the time being.

I don't own a gun, and wouldn't even if it was legal here.

I am, however, well trained in the use of firearms.

So why worry about gun owners in America?

Your safe with no guns where you are.
Just MYOB.

a reply to: Punisher75

But, but, but..................GUNS!!!

Talk to anyone who was living in Jamaica when guns were made illegal for the citizenry. Violent crime rates sky rocketed, especially crimes with a gun. Look at history. Whenever a country disarms its citizens, bad things happen. This study is like any other study. It's skewed. Just like the anti-gun media and governments.

My uncle was brutally stabbed many years ago. I'm sure glad the murderer didn't have a gun.

originally posted by: budski

originally posted by: butcherguy

Put quite simply, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that more guns = more deaths from guns,

And?
People die from all sorts of things.

Should we ban guns?

Would it solve anything?

Heroin is illegal. You can buy it just about anywhere.

Yes, guns should be banned.
They are nothing more than a device that was invented to kill other humans.

To my knowledge, there is no other "product" on the market, and so freely available that was invented for the sole purpose of killing another human.

They ARE BANNED in YOUR country, enjoy your 'safety'.

Leave me alone.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: budski

Oh I know what it means.

It's something that someone can use to show anything they want.

What I want you to show me is your proof that guns were only made to kill humans.

Please. Let us see your documented evidence that the first guns were made just for that, and nothing else.

That all guns were never intended to be used for anything else but killing humans.

The first guns (as we know them today) were smooth bore, and used an early form of black powder.
They were incredibly inaccurate and used only as volley fire against an enemy position.

I'm waiting to see someone post that (laughably) these highly inaccurate weapons were used for hunting, as has happened before.

How about instead of posting anecdotal "evidence" you post something that refutes the statistics in the source linked to the OP.
Is it because you can't?
Is it because all the data proves you wrong?

originally posted by: Punisher75
The stupidity of the whole argument about "death by firearm" in the U.S. is it makes up about 0.01% of the total deaths in America.
About 15,000 people are killed by firearms in the U.S.
About 20,000 die from the Flu.
About 180,000 die from Doctor screw ups in Hospitals in the U.S.

So to make this clearly understood you are like 12 times more likely to have your doctor kill you "making you better" than you are to die by a firearm.

It's stats like this that prove that guns really aren't the issue they are made out to be. Which makes it obvious that the issues is being manufactured, pushed and bought by certain individuals.

I understand why those in places of power would want to do such a thing, but I just can't understand why anyone with half a brain can't see they are being played as they march on with the anti-gun crusaders.