Puma Punku & Ancient Technology From Over 12,000 Years Ago

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Watched it did you? lies...how can you watch a 19 min video in 9 mins?.

Fibber.

Anyhow Iam out.

Why should I believe a fibber?.

I watched it, why do you think I havent seen it before, there are a few videos made to debunk ancient aliens I have seen, thats just one of them.

Then go to name calling lol thats not very mature.

If there is evidence of Puma Punku like stone structures made with primitive tools please do link some, I would like to see them.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

If you had watched it then you would understand why your OP is incorrect.
The pyramids were done thousands of years before....
Anyhow it is obvious your mind is made up based on internet untruths....so I will not bother.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



If you had watched it then you would understand why your OP is incorrect.

The pyramids were done thousands of years before....

Anyhow it is obvious your mind is made up based on internet untruths....so I will not bother.

This thread isnt about the pyramids, its about Puma Punku, as to the date there are various dates listed on different sites like thousands of years before CE, I guess your refering to wikipedia:

Determining the age of the Pumapunku complex has been a focus of researchers since the discovery of the Tiwanaku site. As noted by Andean specialist, Binghamton University Anthropology professor W. H. Isbell, a radiocarbon date was obtained by Vranich from organic material from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound-fill forming the Pumapunku.
This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku to 536–600 CE. Since the radiocarbon date came from the lowermost and oldest layer of mound-fill underlying the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework must have been constructed sometime after 536–600 CE.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

But your thread title implies it is over 12000 years old so which is it?.
In fact don't bother...got better things to do than talking about nonsense.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



But your thread title implies it is over 12000 years old so which is it?.

In fact don't bother...got better things to do than talking about nonsense.

Well cant say with certainty as there is opposing information out there, perhaps it was CE perhaps it was thousands of years before that.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
So here are a few videos about Puma Punku which is amazing to look at. I wonder how they were able to create such precise structures. What kinds of technology might they have been using in order to get such precision in thier stone work? I wonder if its evidence of an ancient advanced civilization.

Nestled in the remains of the ancient city of Tiahuanaco, Bolivia, is the megalithic ruins site called Puma Punku. Archeologists believe the site to be the cradle of civilization in South America–predating the Myans. Evidence found in this region of Boliva suggests the area was a flourishing center for pre-columbian culture and commerce as early as 600 A.D. However, recent discoveries of monolithic structures 15-20 meters under the surface of nearby Lake Titicaca, off the coast of Puerto Acosta, establish that this civilization may date back as much as 12,000 earlier. This calculation comes from archeologist Hugo Boero Rojo, who calculated the depth of the structures found means that this area of Lake Titicaca was above water level at some time in the past. Sedimentry evidence places that time at between 11,700 and 10,800 B.C. This would make Tiahuanaco the oldest civilization known to man.
Puma Punku is a large temple complex on the edge of Tiahuanaco. Inca oral and written traditions tell of the site being the location where the father god, Viracocha (god of action, shaper of many worlds and destroyer of many worlds) created Earth and humans. Their legends explain that Viracocha created humans from the earth on a great rock. He sectioned the rock and sent two giant servants to name the tribes of the world. The pinnacle of the Puma Punku site is the "Gateway of the Sun" that depicts Viracocha coming through a type of star gate. The carving is created from a single 12-ton stone. Scattered about the site are many monolithic stones that are precisely cut and routed in multiple levels with perfect angles and straight lines. Many of the blocks are cut in perfect interlocking shapes–a feat far beyond a primitive civilization that used stone and bronze hand tools. The only explanation for this precision work is the use of machine tools similar to the diamond-tipped quarry saws, masonary drills and CNC routers used today and powered by electricity or internal combustion engines. No archeologist or scientist can offer any other explanation for the amazing existence of Puma Punku's stone work. The stories of Viracocha and his giant servants must have been primitive interpretations of visitation by highly intelligent aliens that posessed the technology to make the structures present at Puma Punku. The stories of Viracocha's creation of mankind, and then destroying it with a great flood is consistent with the ancient Sumerian texts account of the Annunaki and even the Judeo-Christian Bible's Old Testament creation stories and the great flood. How could all of these disparate civilzations develop the same creation and destruction by flood stories unless they were independent accounts of real events that were documented by humans under the direction of ancient aliens who brought the technology for machines, language and genetic invention.
www.theancientaliens.com...#!puma-punku/cs2i

the FACT we CANT do this type of thing today.. IS proof there was a civilisation further along then us....
we STILL cant do alot that was found there..... only a technologically advanced civilisation COULD|
have done it... this also Prooves for me atleast... they were already this advanced about 2000 - 12.000 years ago...
a mutual destruction event would also cause alot of sunlight blokkage like they think the asteroid did that killed of the dino's.. a nuke would also do this quite capable.... dunno i think this meteorite has never been found while theres alot of evidence of glass shards u find after a nuclear bomb test aswell.... annyways theres stuff found from 12.000 years ago, there also was an ice aga about that time ago if i remember from wikipedia correctly to lazy... already typed alot today..

otzi was found under ice... but heres a new idea... what if otzi died.... stayed underground balsemed in tact like was a custom often see egypt.... THEN the ice age begins wich halts the aging process (frozen means even slower atom movement than aging in normal weather, where degredation is seen much faster).... how do we know what effect this has on carbon dating? i think when its frozen we cant demonstrate the exact age anymore we could forget about the time it was frozen... ah well so many ideas.. nobody wants to know how it all works i quess.. if u really did i would suggest a peacefull protest mars on are 51 or S4 bases.... woulod they kill of an entire mass of people the size of say a city? on national television? i think not... they have tehnology there you will never see come to light... that can save not your life alone but the entire worlds.... once mainstream science finds out... your well over 50 years ahead from now....
the the elite has private right beacause of price.... and once u get a turn.. youre probably no longer around...

i wish you well non believer...


p.s. funny thing to me is.... we keep rediscovering things in the bible.... once we master a technieq or certain technologie... only THEN do we or are we able to realise its ALREADY described and seen in the biblical times.... they had the wheel... but no camera's and no recording devices... so faith was needed... they thought it was important enough to write down for later generations.... must have been hard for some one to proove what he had seen in the year 0....... we cant even convince people with VIDEO to DAY!

originally posted by: dennisarends

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

So here are a few videos about Puma Punku which is amazing to look at. I wonder how they were able to create such precise structures. What kinds of technology might they have been using in order to get such precision in thier stone work? I wonder if its evidence of an ancient advanced civilization.

Nestled in the remains of the ancient city of Tiahuanaco, Bolivia, is the megalithic ruins site called Puma Punku. Archeologists believe the site to be the cradle of civilization in South America–predating the Myans. Evidence found in this region of Boliva suggests the area was a flourishing center for pre-columbian culture and commerce as early as 600 A.D. However, recent discoveries of monolithic structures 15-20 meters under the surface of nearby Lake Titicaca, off the coast of Puerto Acosta, establish that this civilization may date back as much as 12,000 earlier. This calculation comes from archeologist Hugo Boero Rojo, who calculated the depth of the structures found means that this area of Lake Titicaca was above water level at some time in the past. Sedimentry evidence places that time at between 11,700 and 10,800 B.C. This would make Tiahuanaco the oldest civilization known to man.

Puma Punku is a large temple complex on the edge of Tiahuanaco. Inca oral and written traditions tell of the site being the location where the father god, Viracocha (god of action, shaper of many worlds and destroyer of many worlds) created Earth and humans. Their legends explain that Viracocha created humans from the earth on a great rock. He sectioned the rock and sent two giant servants to name the tribes of the world. The pinnacle of the Puma Punku site is the "Gateway of the Sun" that depicts Viracocha coming through a type of star gate. The carving is created from a single 12-ton stone. Scattered about the site are many monolithic stones that are precisely cut and routed in multiple levels with perfect angles and straight lines. Many of the blocks are cut in perfect interlocking shapes–a feat far beyond a primitive civilization that used stone and bronze hand tools. The only explanation for this precision work is the use of machine tools similar to the diamond-tipped quarry saws, masonary drills and CNC routers used today and powered by electricity or internal combustion engines. No archeologist or scientist can offer any other explanation for the amazing existence of Puma Punku's stone work. The stories of Viracocha and his giant servants must have been primitive interpretations of visitation by highly intelligent aliens that posessed the technology to make the structures present at Puma Punku. The stories of Viracocha's creation of mankind, and then destroying it with a great flood is consistent with the ancient Sumerian texts account of the Annunaki and even the Judeo-Christian Bible's Old Testament creation stories and the great flood. How could all of these disparate civilzations develop the same creation and destruction by flood stories unless they were independent accounts of real events that were documented by humans under the direction of ancient aliens who brought the technology for machines, language and genetic invention.

www.theancientaliens.com...#!puma-punku/cs2i

the FACT we CANT do this type of thing today.. IS proof there was a civilisation further along then us....

we STILL cant do alot that was found there..... only a technologically advanced civilisation COULD|

have done it... this also Prooves for me atleast... they were already this advanced about 2000 - 12.000 years ago...

a mutual destruction event would also cause alot of sunlight blokkage like they think the asteroid did that killed of the dino's.. a nuke would also do this quite capable.... dunno i think this meteorite has never been found while theres alot of evidence of glass shards u find after a nuclear bomb test aswell.... annyways theres stuff found from 12.000 years ago, there also was an ice aga about that time ago if i remember from wikipedia correctly to lazy... already typed alot today..



otzi was found under ice... but heres a new idea... what if otzi died.... stayed underground balsemed in tact like was a custom often see egypt.... THEN the ice age begins wich halts the aging process (frozen means even slower atom movement than aging in normal weather, where degredation is seen much faster).... how do we know what effect this has on carbon dating? i think when its frozen we cant demonstrate the exact age anymore we could forget about the time it was frozen... ah well so many ideas.. nobody wants to know how it all works i quess.. if u really did i would suggest a peacefull protest mars on are 51 or S4 bases.... woulod they kill of an entire mass of people the size of say a city? on national television? i think not... they have tehnology there you will never see come to light... that can save not your life alone but the entire worlds.... once mainstream science finds out... your well over 50 years ahead from now....

the the elite has private right beacause of price.... and once u get a turn.. youre probably no longer around...



i wish you well non believer...



p.s. funny thing to me is.... we keep rediscovering things in the bible.... once we master a technieq or certain technologie... only THEN do we or are we able to realise its ALREADY described and seen in the biblical times.... they had the wheel... but no camera's and no recording devices... so faith was needed... they thought it was important enough to write down for later generations.... must have been hard for some one to proove what he had seen in the year 0....... we cant even convince people with VIDEO to DAY!

Common sense dictates that this type of stone work cant be done with primitive tools, and it cant be done today, if it could it would have. People have made claims to have done such things with primitive tools but I will believe it when I see it. Carbon dating isnt perfect and I am guessing they may have gotten Puma Punku wrong, it could be right, but if it was made during CE I think there would still be a big stone city there and not some stone ruins in my opinion.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

To me, there is no doubt that humans (being the crafty little buggers we are) could have built anything we have seen on Earth contemperorarily with the dates we have assigned. Or even older. Without television taking up our time, a human is capable of intense focus and amazingly precise craftsmanship. Matter of fact....even moreso than now. We use antique furniture in our house because the quality of the build is superior pre-Industrial revolution.

As it relates to this story, I think the dating may be of greater interest. I have always been interested in mesoamerican to a very high degree. But have spent the last year reading more about Indus/Sumerian. Puma Punku predating Catalhoyuk or Dwarka....that is mind blowing to consider.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Being unable to imagine how one would solve a problem is not "common sense".

Abrasion, all by itself, could do anything you see at Puma Punku that relates to stone carving. Im not a mason, but just from my observation of the forces of nature I can think of 2 ways to create well mitred edges in stone without using modern tools or chisels: Sand and water.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

So then, just out of curiosity, how does one cut diorite without diamond tipped saws and or tech?

This is not like limestone, what most stone masons work with with modern tools.

This stuff is a 7 on the hardness scale where diamond is a 10.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Being unable to imagine how one would solve a problem is not "common sense".



Abrasion, all by itself, could do anything you see at Puma Punku that relates to stone carving. Im not a mason, but just from my observation of the forces of nature I can think of 2 ways to create well mitred edges in stone without using modern tools or chisels: Sand and water.

I would love to see some evidence of primitive tools being used to make anything like we see in the ruins of Puma Punku. Using chisels sand and water I would like to see some example of it done, if it can be reproduced then people may believe it. How would they move the massive blocks and get such precision straight lines and flat surfaces, not only that bor holes into stones as well, its not something that could easily be done today with our modern tools. If you have some evidence to share that shows similar stonework done with primitive tools please do share it.

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance



So then, just out of curiosity, how does one cut diorite without diamond tipped saws and or tech?



This is not like limestone, what most stone masons work with with modern tools.



This stuff is a 7 on the hardness scale where diamond is a 10.

I know right, its an amazing feat of engineering. On wikipedia its saying they are sandstone, however there are other sources saying different things like diorite. I dont know if wikipedia is the go to place for facts anymore as anyone can write anything they want on it. Reguardless its a major feat of engineering that I dont see being done today. We have concrete in our modern world, I wonder how they were able to accomplish such feats. Also why would they do it, there had to have been a purpose to it.

a reply to: infinityorder

Care to provide a credible source for the diorite claim? Afaik there is no diorite in puma punku.

Btw diorite is a rock consisting of multiple minerals with different degrees of hardness. So maybe you could also provide a source for the 7 mohs claim too?

originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: infinityorder

Care to provide a credible source for the diorite claim? Afaik there is no diorite in puma punku.

Btw diorite is a rock consisting of multiple minerals with different degrees of hardness. So maybe you could also provide a source for the 7 mohs claim too?

I can't link from my phone.

Try Google it is seconds away and can answer this for you in less than 5 seconds.

Diorite is a composite... Just like granite, one of the hardest stones on earth.

From what I have researched there is allegedly, I can't confirm this. Diorite there.

There is however confirmed to be granite which is even harder than diorite.

We use diamonds to cut granite. In fact we use diamond embedded steel carbide chopsaws to cut granite.

Did they have diamond embedded carbide steel chopsaw blades not to mention chopsaws back then?

Because I did block and stone masonry for a few years.

Never saw anyone do things like what I see in puma punku.

Not even with modern tech.

That isn't to say they couldn't, I just haven't seen it.

originally posted by: infinityorder
This stuff is a 7 on the hardness scale where diamond is a 10.

Actually it is been easily tested and is now a common fact that the stone there is 5 to 6 Mohs hardness. 7, 8 and 9 have been used by those who are trying to support their aliens/super advance civilization speculations.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
I know for a fact I've told you before of the many years I spent doing very similar stonework (albeit on a much smaller scale), and about how I've even done similar "perfect" lines, grooves, planes, etc. using only 'primitive' tools; no diamond tipped implements, no CNC, no lasers... So before you even posted it, I've provided you with first-hand, verifiable, repeatable evidence that the entire premise of your thread is based on ignorance and falsehoods.....And anyone else who's spent any considerable amount of time working stone will tell you the same. Yet you ignore it altogether.

What exactly is your agenda here, as it's clearly not learning about the past?

Let me go out on a limb and say one avatar professing the skills to duplicate work created by our ancestors should likely be taken with a grain of salt, unless of course, you can provide the Google earth coordinates for us to admire from a distance.

OP: Why couldn't it have been humans or an offshoot of us some 10's of thousands of years? Why default to ancient aliens? I think it's more plausible that we had a certain knowledge that was lost, or at least some of it.

Or instead of blindly buying the can't be done with primitive tools mantra, one should invest some of these tools get the odd chunk of stone and start playing with the technologies. The hardened copper chisel will be the most expensive implement. Flat surfaces, straight lines, and clean circles do not require cnc machinery or diamond blades. Acquaint yourself with these "primitive" technologies and their capabilities before claiming that they are incapable of as they are still used in the trades today far more than lasers or cnc machined straight edges.

a reply to: infinityorder

andesite can be between 5 and 7 on the Mohs scale. Sandstone...far, far less hard.

The andesite in Puma PUnku is closer to 5.5. Jadite jade is harder than that. So you wouldn't even need copper. You would just need jadite to use as a chisel.

I wonder how Andeans feel about everyone crediting their ancestor's history to aliens?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: infinityorder

andesite can be between 5 and 7 on the Mohs scale. Sandstone...far, far less hard.

The andesite in Puma PUnku is closer to 5.5. Jadite jade is harder than that. So you wouldn't even need copper. You would just need jadite to use as a chisel.

But what about the granite?

I can't find a single credible source that confirms there is even diorite there.

There are many credible sources that confirm granite.

Granite can be used to abrade diorite, because it is harder.

The could have used granite sand to abrade the diorite. But how the hell did the cut granite into such shapes?

Just to cut off the " ancient aliens" bs, I am not advocating anything, I am trying to gain knowledge here.

Did they have access to diamonds, or rubies, or quartz in large enough quantities.

I am not finding enough sources on this I believe to form an accurate opinion.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
So here are a few videos about Puma Punku which is amazing to look at. I wonder how they were able to create such precise structures. What kinds of technology might they have been using in order to get such precision in thier stone work?

Yes, "such precision" as David Hatcher Childress showed with a simple square:



In other words, what precision?

Harte