Aliens or ex-inhabitants..

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
Oh well I guess. I absolutely wouldn't accept the word of an anonymous member on a UFO and alien message board. Your entire belief system could be filled with delusion for all I know. What I do know is you consistently argue the existence of intelligent alien beings on Earth with zero actual evidence of that.

Why yes it most definitely is! I use such things as the Periodic Table of the Elements, the Hipparcos star catalog, and other absolutely fictional stuff! Like the "Structured Query Language" (SQL), and such things as a language called C, C++, and C# along with obscure libraries, other languages like Python, Java, and others. so yeah...full of delusion.

You try to skirt around providing physical evidence yourself, but the physical evidence required is set by the believers themselves. They've claimed over the last 6 decades, extraterrestrial beings have crashed space craft, landed, interacted with humans through abductions, implants, etc. All physical Earthbound accounts and incidences that require some type of physical evidence to back them up.

One problem, and, I'm certain you are not only aware, but attempt t leverage this; much of the "evidence" you demand would be classified as a national security issue...thus you aren't allowed to know. I offer you something that isn't classified, and no matter what I present, it is unacceptable to you.

It is seriously RICH that you speak of James Randi and his challenge, yet apply absolutely no "rules" to what you accept as evidence, and what you do accept conforms to no other rule that your own private set.

Over the past 60 years you have been presented with an abundance of physical evidence; you have summarily rejected all of out-of-hand, without giving it benefit of inspection. That is not only very unscientific, but feeds your own delusions that there is not evidence. If I were to present you with evidence in the form of probabilities, you would neither check then, not accept them. AND, you would do so firmly believing that absolute proof is the only way to go; when in reality such a thing is not possible.

I can give you a star, a planet, and a Race of Extraterrestrial with a rather high probability, and wholly testable data...but, I suppose that wouldn't work for you.

Your problem is that you demand evidence and uniformity, and that only you create the rules; it doesn't work that way.

When you can accept the rules of evidence as they are currently defined, let me know, perhaps we can discuss this all again.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

Which is why I said its being willfully ignorant, denial of what thier being told because they want top secret testable evidence yet they cant test it and arent in the circle of trust to be given such material.

Well, I have to agree for the most part, especially "willful ignorance" part. Though I do have some issue with those who insist that science supports their position, when in reality it does not...partly why I asked the question; "How would you propose we test?" I'm sure there will be very few responses to that question.

The real problem is we have all "put our foot in it", and we will track it into everywhere we go...Ignoring it won't make it go away!

"denial of what thier being told". Imagine that: not believing that which we're told when there's not an iota of testable evidence proving that it's fact. How dare we not follow the herd.

Why do agree that not believing unsubtantiated claims is willful ignorance? Could you explain?

Okay...HOW, are we going to test? What are we going to test?

What would or can you do to test any of these claims?

If you were presented with data, would you be able to recognize what it was, interpret what it says?


a reply to: ZetaRediculian
in your scenario there could be a wealth of data in the story and the "telling" of the story...and that is where our psychologists will come in handy.

If you can't test a claim, then it's not fact. That's how it works. Psychologists do not scientifically test evidence.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8

You try to skirt around providing physical evidence yourself, but the physical evidence required is set by the believers themselves. They've claimed over the last 6 decades, extraterrestrial beings have crashed space craft, landed, interacted with humans through abductions, implants, etc. All physical Earthbound accounts and incidences that require some type of physical evidence to back them up.

One problem, and, I'm certain you are not only aware, but attempt t leverage this; much of the "evidence" you demand would be classified as a national security issue...thus you aren't allowed to know. I offer you something that isn't classified, and no matter what I present, it is unacceptable to you.

It is seriously RICH that you speak of James Randi and his challenge, yet apply absolutely no "rules" to what you accept as evidence, and what you do accept conforms to no other rule that your own private set.

Over the past 60 years you have been presented with an abundance of physical evidence; you have summarily rejected all of out-of-hand, without giving it benefit of inspection. That is not only very unscientific, but feeds your own delusions that there is not evidence. If I were to present you with evidence in the form of probabilities, you would neither check then, not accept them. AND, you would do so firmly believing that absolute proof is the only way to go; when in reality such a thing is not possible.

I can give you a star, a planet, and a Race of Extraterrestrial with a rather high probability, and wholly testable data...but, I suppose that wouldn't work for you.

Your problem is that you demand evidence and uniformity, and that only you create the rules; it doesn't work that way.

When you can accept the rules of evidence as they are currently defined, let me know, perhaps we can discuss this all again.

Evidence is that which is testable via the scientific method.
If evidence is not accessible, it can not be tested and is worthless.
What testable physical evidence has been presented over 60 years that proves that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth, and abduct people?
You can give us a race of extraterrestrials with a rather high probability? What does that even mean?
When it comes to fact, science sets the rules and the rules call for evidence to be tested via the scientific method.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8



You try to skirt around providing physical evidence yourself, but the physical evidence required is set by the believers themselves. They've claimed over the last 6 decades, extraterrestrial beings have crashed space craft, landed, interacted with humans through abductions, implants, etc. All physical Earthbound accounts and incidences that require some type of physical evidence to back them up.

One problem, and, I'm certain you are not only aware, but attempt t leverage this; much of the "evidence" you demand would be classified as a national security issue...thus you aren't allowed to know. I offer you something that isn't classified, and no matter what I present, it is unacceptable to you.



It is seriously RICH that you speak of James Randi and his challenge, yet apply absolutely no "rules" to what you accept as evidence, and what you do accept conforms to no other rule that your own private set.



Over the past 60 years you have been presented with an abundance of physical evidence; you have summarily rejected all of out-of-hand, without giving it benefit of inspection. That is not only very unscientific, but feeds your own delusions that there is not evidence. If I were to present you with evidence in the form of probabilities, you would neither check then, not accept them. AND, you would do so firmly believing that absolute proof is the only way to go; when in reality such a thing is not possible.



I can give you a star, a planet, and a Race of Extraterrestrial with a rather high probability, and wholly testable data...but, I suppose that wouldn't work for you.



Your problem is that you demand evidence and uniformity, and that only you create the rules; it doesn't work that way.



When you can accept the rules of evidence as they are currently defined, let me know, perhaps we can discuss this all again.

Thats the point these guys have no qualifications to be anywhere near evidence of any sort. It would be like giving kids a gas canister and matches.

I reccomend education and an attempt at a job application to advanced military projects, maybe then they could test out some evidence.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Evidence is that which is testable via the scientific method.

I wonder IF you even know WHAT the scientific method is...

[quote]
If evidence is not accessible, it can not be tested and is worthless.


If evidence is not accessible...what does that mean? If I have access to the data (evidence), and you don't that makes is worthless? How about if some famous scientist has access to the evidence and you do not; is it still worthless? I'll bet you have a multi-standard where that is concerned...not very scientific.

What testable physical evidence has been presented over 60 years that proves that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth, and abduct people?

How about you start with the Roswell case...there is a good amount of data there. Start with the famous image of one of the Officers holding the supposed balloon, and a "report" in one hand. Try reading the report; it talks about bodies, victims, flying disks, and other cool stuff. Then move on the Betty and Barney Hill case...they had a famous "star map" that actually provides plenty of testable evidence...yet you seem to have missed that. There are also some cases where DNA was recovered, the results of those test are available if you look hard enough. They typically show "Human" DNA, with a very implausible connection to the Terrestrial Human species (i.e. do not show connections to Terrestrial Humans.)

You can give us a race of extraterrestrials with a rather high probability? What does that even mean?

I thought it was rather clear...How about; I can show you where ET lives, or at least one Race. Actually, I think I can show you three others as well.

And all of the data is testable!

When it comes to fact, science sets the rules and the rules call for evidence to be tested via the scientific method.

Again, when you have understood and accepted the current rules of evidence; then we may have something to talk about, but until then you are working outside of convention, and your reports, opinions, ideas, etc. are basically meaningless (they conform to no accepted convention).

a reply to: tanka418

You don't have a clue what testable evidence is and I don't have the time or interest in educating you. I refer you to a university or even a decent high school science course.

a reply to: tanka418

Oh, now you can't back up your claims because the evidence is a matter of national security?

originally posted by: draknoir2
a reply to: tanka418

Oh, now you can't back up your claims because the evidence is a matter of national security?

No, I'm telling you that the kind of evidence you want, in that instance, isn't available to YOU. That would be a report of the "inner" workings of an organization that is in no way obligated to tell you anything, and, it would be either the U.N, G8 (now 7), or the G20 that would have to supply such data.

You do understand, that I can't provide "valid" data of that, it must come from an independent source, a third party. Otherwise the data shouldn't be considered valid.

Y'all need to stop riding, and get off your "willful ignorance" horse. You need to begin to understand what the "rules of evidence" are, and how to apply them. If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

originally posted by: tanka418

Y'all need to stop riding, and get off your "willful ignorance" horse. You need to begin to understand what the "rules of evidence" are, and how to apply them. If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your

Y'all?

Didn't know they spoke Hillbilly in Andromeda.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: draknoir2

a reply to: tanka418



Oh, now you can't back up your claims because the evidence is a matter of national security?

No, I'm telling you that the kind of evidence you want, in that instance, isn't available to YOU. That would be a report of the "inner" workings of an organization that is in no way obligated to tell you anything, and, it would be either the U.N, G8 (now 7), or the G20 that would have to supply such data.



You do understand, that I can't provide "valid" data of that, it must come from an independent source, a third party. Otherwise the data shouldn't be considered valid.



Y'all need to stop riding, and get off your "willful ignorance" horse. You need to begin to understand what the "rules of evidence" are, and how to apply them. If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

They cant get off that horse its going too fast, its they are going ludicrous speed and beyond into plad, so you see there is no stopping once they get to a certain speed, they just have to hold on and hope the horse takes them some place special, but dont expect too much as far as going anywhere in a decent on topic discussion that way you wont be dissapointed.


Back on topic look at some of the evidence of advanced ancient peoples which could have been involved with aliens in some way or another.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: tanka418

Y'all need to stop riding, and get off your "willful ignorance" horse. You need to begin to understand what the "rules of evidence" are, and how to apply them. If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your

Y'all?

Didn't know they spoke Hillbilly in Andromeda.

Hillbilly!

Ain't no hillbilly in Texas!

originally posted by: tanka418

If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

No need. It was correct. You are not an alien.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I'm not so sure about Ancient Aliens "planning" Humanity. I am very sure however, that the interactions with Extraterrestrials back in the day was/is the norm in this part of the Galaxy. I am very sure that these ancient aliens had a very significant impact on the evolution of the Terrestrial Human Species. That Terrestrial Humans learned a very great deal simply watching these off-worlders in their day to day lives.

I also believe that Terrestrial Humans learn very quickly, and sometimes a bit to well (various terrestrial war-machines). It was these aliens that introduced the ideas of science, technology...precipitated the bronze age, as well as others, and the notions of greed, war, hate, and other negative idea. I also think that Terrestrial Humans would have learned those things on their own...given time.

I have found what I believe is evidence that these extraterrestrials may have contaminated the Terrestrial Human gene pool, but, logically, that sort of thing may be common place.

IF we seriously examine the ancient record we actually find serious evidence of several species visiting. There are myth and legend of species from Nu 2 Canis Majoris (Sirius), and from 39 Tauri (Pleiades) that date back some 6000 - 8000 years. By the way; Nu 2 canis Majoris; Reptilians. 39 Tauri; tall whites/Nordics.

Of course all this is based on absolutely no real evidence; since we all know, for a fact, there is no evidence.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: tanka418

If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

No need. It was correct. You are not an alien.

Why is it that you must avoid the real issues here, and try to twist everything into something irrelevant?

so I will reiterate:

If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

originally posted by: tanka418
a reply to: FormOfTheLord



I'm not so sure about Ancient Aliens "planning" Humanity. I am very sure however, that the interactions with Extraterrestrials back in the day was/is the norm in this part of the Galaxy. I am very sure that these ancient aliens had a very significant impact on the evolution of the Terrestrial Human Species. That Terrestrial Humans learned a very great deal simply watching these off-worlders in their day to day lives.



I also believe that Terrestrial Humans learn very quickly, and sometimes a bit to well (various terrestrial war-machines). It was these aliens that introduced the ideas of science, technology...precipitated the bronze age, as well as others, and the notions of greed, war, hate, and other negative idea. I also think that Terrestrial Humans would have learned those things on their own...given time.



I have found what I believe is evidence that these extraterrestrials may have contaminated the Terrestrial Human gene pool, but, logically, that sort of thing may be common place.



IF we seriously examine the ancient record we actually find serious evidence of several species visiting. There are myth and legend of species from Nu 2 Canis Majoris (Sirius), and from 39 Tauri (Pleiades) that date back some 6000 - 8000 years. By the way; Nu 2 canis Majoris; Reptilians. 39 Tauri; tall whites/Nordics.



Of course all this is based on absolutely no real evidence; since we all know, for a fact, there is no evidence.

I kind of think of it like maybe they never really left, and are still directing us giving us nudges here and there. There is also the Agartha idea given to us by Admiral Richard E Byrd, who had a ton of creditability as an Admiral.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: tanka418

If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

No need. It was correct. You are not an alien.

Why is it that you must avoid the real issues here, and try to twist everything

Because we have different definitions for "real".

And no twisting required. I can link the thread where you debunked yourself with DNA data.

a reply to: tanka418

you'll have to forgive him , no doubt he's still rummaging through his tool bag ,.. its emptiness must be disconcerting, confusion seems to be the play
don't know how I missed this thread , maybe...
im being short changed on the blood supply ,ever since Tangerine was humorously attached to Zeta's head

funbox

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: tanka418

If I released DNA data, would you demand I "prove" the data is correct? Or would you want "your" laboratory to test also? Or better yet, an agreed upon third party? There is an obvious correct response there...do you know what it is?

No need. It was correct. You are not an alien.

Why is it that you must avoid the real issues here, and try to twist everything

Because we have different definitions for "real".

And no twisting required. I can link the thread where you debunked yourself with DNA data.

obviously...however, mine are based on empirical observation, and known data. yours seem to based on misunderstanding...usually the very nature of the evidence your are failing to look at.

a reply to: tanka418

Why yes it most definitely is! I use such things as the Periodic Table of the Elements, the Hipparcos star catalog, and other absolutely fictional stuff! Like the "Structured Query Language" (SQL), and such things as a language called C, C++, and C# along with obscure libraries, other languages like Python, Java, and others. so yeah...full of delusion.

Your claim of knowing and talking to aliens.... I'd gamble to say a bit of delusion there. "Why yes, it most definitely is!"

One problem, and, I'm certain you are not only aware, but attempt t leverage this; much of the "evidence" you demand would be classified as a national security issue...thus you aren't allowed to know. I offer you something that isn't classified, and no matter what I present, it is unacceptable to you.

So, you personally have information that would be a national security risk if made public? Sounds like you're really in on the good alien stuff. You continue to back yourself into a corner you can't get out of making statements like that. I'm not alone in refusing to accept your level of evidence, but I'm not the only one reading this thread either. Plenty of naive people who wholly accept the word of someone they don't know. You should post what you know for them. Only if it's not life threatening though please.

It is seriously RICH that you speak of James Randi and his challenge, yet apply absolutely no "rules" to what you accept as evidence, and what you do accept conforms to no other rule that your own private set.

Over the past 60 years you have been presented with an abundance of physical evidence; you have summarily rejected all of out-of-hand, without giving it benefit of inspection. That is not only very unscientific, but feeds your own delusions that there is not evidence. If I were to present you with evidence in the form of probabilities, you would neither check then, not accept them. AND, you would do so firmly believing that absolute proof is the only way to go; when in reality such a thing is not possible..

No rules to what I accept as evidence? You understand "my" rules are the reason I don't accept what you and most believers use as evidence, don't you? I'll give you one example- Dr. Roger Leir who supposedly removed "alien implants" but never provided that evidence to be independently studied by an unbiased group of scientists. He claimed to remove 12 implants and he couldn't provide one of those implants to be freely studied? You don't find that the least bit suspicious at all? It's this type of "evidence" that you and other believers naively accept without much questioning.

I can give you a star, a planet, and a Race of Extraterrestrial with a rather high probability, and wholly testable data...but, I suppose that wouldn't work for you.

Your problem is that you demand evidence and uniformity, and that only you create the rules; it doesn't work that way.

When you can accept the rules of evidence as they are currently defined, let me know, perhaps we can discuss this all again.

Is this some silly dismissal? Sorry, but "my" rules are in line with many others. This is a typical tactic by believers to try and make out what we demand as unreasonable and ridiculous. Given what believers themselves have claimed for decades, it is not. Again, it's an extremely simple answer if intelligent alien beings are on Earth as believers claim. Provide one tiny piece of something that can be studied by an unbiased group that shows without a doubt is created somewhere other than Earth and by an intelligent alien species. That's never happened in the history of this phenomena. So, you're stuck with having to accept and push this weak evidence in order to keep the myth alive. You also have to fabricate and support the government/military cover up excuse for not having the quality of evidence that would convince the scientific community. A cover up that would mean we're open to being visited at any moment, not only from others from the species we have this "evidence" of, but from many other species. That makes the case even stronger for no evidence of intelligent alien life visiting.

I love the haters...

"1:1000000 is an improvable ratio"

Well no kidding - but when an entire warship worth of sailors all report a cigar shaped, light surrounded object that popped up out of the water, hung out for a minute, and then vanished - I have a hard time saying that they're all wrong.

That's a single example; I won't get into the THOUSANDS of examples of UFOs that have never been explained, but were sighted by multiple credible people. I won't either get into Area 51, or stories I've personally been handed by people with quite the reputation...

1:1000000 is probably a conservative ratio. Haters.

As for the actual theory in question; I actually have very little doubt that it's on point... I truly believe that it's entirely possible, and entirely probable. Earth has gone through a lot of phases, and nearing the end of one ourselves that I believe will be the beginning of an uninhabitable Earth for the next... 30000 years; I feel like the idea has a lot of merit. I've considered it quite a few times in the past, and think that this proposition is totally feasible.