Ancient Indian aircraft on agenda of major science conference

I have always been fascinated by the ancient Indian myths. Especially the vimona.
It seems others are interested as well.

Indian Vedic myths tell of ancient pilots flying craft around the world and out of this world. But some think the myths were true, and that modern science has it all wrong.

The presenters of the session are apparently serious in their belief that ancient Indian planes were not only able to travel across the solar system, but also "could move left, right, as well as backwards, unlike modern planes which only fly forward," according to one of the speakers, Captain Anand J Bodas, quoted in the Mumbai Mirror.

It's easy enough to fly around the Internet and find plenty of material from folks who believe we were visited by ancient astronauts or that humans had cracked flight much earlier than 1903. But the Indian Science Congress is not the type of gathering where you would normally find such topics on the agenda. Most of the other sessions are on topics more fitting of a university science setting, such as biodiversity, quantum chemistry or fusion.

The session is tucked into a symposium on "Ancient Sciences Through Sanskrit," with other talks on things like the "Neuroscience of Yoga" or "Scientific Principles of Ancient Indian Architecture and Civil Engineering."

However, not all like the idea of breaking the status quo.

The idea of mixing in a serious talk on ancient Indian astronauts with presentations on more rigorous research and science policy issues at a major science conference has drawn the ire of Dr. Ram Prasad Gandhiraman, a NASA scientist at the agency's Ames research center in California. Gandhiraman has collected hundreds of signatures from other scientists around the world on a petition demanding that the session be cancelled.

Really?? A petition to stop it?? I thought science was open to new ideas.

"We as scientific community should be seriously concerned about the infiltration of pseudo-science in science curricula with backing of influential political parties," the petition reads. "Giving a scientific platform for a pseudo-science talk is worse than a systematic attack that has been carried out by politically powerful pseudo-science propagandists in the recent past. If we scientists remain passive, we are betraying not only the science, but also our children."

Betraying science and our children? By entertaining an idea?
Oh yeah, new ideas might upset the mainstream paradigm, we cant have that! Think of the chaos potential, it could destroy society.
Sarc/off
I for one hope they do give it a non bias thorough study.
www.cnet.com... spaceship-on-agenda-of-major-science-conference/

Vimana as a real world item are just silly, and it seems Indian Academics have rubbished the Vymanika Shastra - Here is their critical study

ETA: your link is (now?) dead btw

Sorry, but the attempt to re-write science based on Indian myths and legends is utter stupidity. Any evidence? I cannot really say much more.

Regards

It does sound a little off the wall, ok, more than a little.
However, it does have its supporters.

However, Captain Bodas is not without his supporters."If we had chosen Sanskrit professors to talk about the references to aviation technology in Sanskrit literature, which includes information on how to make planes, the dress code and diet of pilots, the seven types of fuel used, people would have dismissed us,” said Professor Gauri Mahulikar, head of Mumbai University’s Sanskrit Department and coordinator for the session “but Captain Bodas is himself a pilot, and his co-presenter, Ameya Jadhav, holds an MTech degree besides an MA in Sanskrit.”Dr S D Sharma, Professor of Aerospace Engineering at IIT-B, also supported the decision to include the lecture in the program for the Science Congress. "I would not dismiss the topic out of hand," he told Mumbai Mirror. "A purely mythological lecture comparing aeroplanes in Sanskrit texts to contemporary ones could be very interesting. However, there should not be any kind of story telling that is not backed by evidence."

Why the vitriol for an idea?
If it is pure lunacy let them give their side then shoot it down in flames.
Not allowing someone to present a theory by blocking them from even speaking reminds me of burning books with 'bad things' in it.

a reply to: stosh64

Trouble is that the supposed technical info is just clearly a hoax, using Sanskrit that is shown to be modern when it is claimed to be transmitted through psychic channelling from an ancient source. The illustrations and descriptions seem to me to be obviously the attempts to draw and describe flying craft based on sightings/drawings of airships/dirigibles but using steam power, as that is all the hoaxer (barely) understood.

ETA: you don't allow "pure lunacy" (especially stuff with no basis in reality that has been shot down in flames many times before) in to a a serious conference, you concentrate on stuff that may actually prove worthwhile.

What sources are you using to suggest that Vimana are a viable real thing?

a reply to: skalla

What about the references in the Mahabrahta?
I dont recall that they go into detail about the power source or clothing worn by pilots but they clearly describe Vimana as being aircraft that fly around with people in them.

Maybe the dude claiming to have channeled the info is full of it but I dont know that considering them "real world" is silly.
150 years ago to say we would ever build a flying machine would have sounded silly to the leading minds of the time.


I personally think theres, if not compelling, at least good circumstantial evidence for the ancients having a high level of tech and even flying machines. The description in the Epic of Gilgamesh where he is taken into space and describes the earth as he ascends and the Nazca plains being 2 great examples of Humans possibly having aircraft in the distant past

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

They are really floating Palaces in the literature and maintained in the air through psychic powers attained through asceticism, not aircraft and iirc Vimana also means a type of palace in Sanskrit.

They feature in mythology and story rather than history - and where many supernatural Indian beings such as Siva and Vidyadharas live at the top of the Himalayas a grand mode of transport is an understandable literary device. Mythology is not circumstantial evidence.... to suggest that these craft are real is really like suggesting that Siva is a physical being and Pisaca are real flesh eating demons.

You think being able to exist in 3 cosmic eggs at one time would be enough for some

They say some myths have a hint of truth in them somewhere.....

a reply to: HomerinNC

Yes well for all we know these are the remnant tales of our last attempt at civilization, who knows how many times weve risen and fallen. Hopefully we'll get it right next time.

This comes up so often - it should be stickied that the "vimona" claim is based on some modern "psychic channeling" and not from any actual ancient text.

a reply to: stosh64

The main stream scientific view is Giza Pyramids were built using bronze age technology as tombs. They have come to this conclusion despite a mountain of evidence that demonstrates they are precision engineering that matches and even arguably outdoes our contemporary construction. I always get a laugh when seeing restoration work where they bring in cranes and build large steel frames to move something like a statue face, (not whole statue just a part of it). There is a mountain of evidence that advanced technology in use at Giza and other places in world, but despite it all main stream science makes no attempt to petition governments to have Giza thoroughly examined and explored by engineers and scientists. The scientists statement about betrayal of our children is true, and they are just as guilt if they are going to be hypocritical. Yes I believe that solid evidence should be provided for the Vimana; a piece of the aircraft undug for study, is this not how true science works. Mabey that solid evidence is sitting in the chamber under the pw of the sphinx? How long has mainstream known that chamber was there have they petitioned to have that looked at? From where I stand an observer looking in I see the pseudo and mainstream as both holding onto their own set of biases and self interest beliefs and each one is just as guilty as the other. True science is about cutting the bull# and looking at the evidence objectively without sticking your own emotional views on it, but firstly we must have the evidence and so if the scientist who wrote that piece really believes what he is saying, then he should also walk the walk not just talk the talk, and petition to have a college of engineers and scientists put together who will be allowed full access to Giza and examine it purely from an engineering/scientific basis with no preconceived biases brought forward (e.g. they were made for tombs).

a reply to: AthlonSavage

even arguably outdoes our contemporary construction

Not that argueble the pyramids dont in any way shape or form outdo contempory construction.

a reply to: HomerinNC

Many indeed do, and often Myths and Legends contain codified information on History, Psychology, Scientific knowledge and so forth. They also contain pure drama and fantastical stuff that does not stand up to examination, like gigantic Raksasa that can swallow the world, fasting to enable one gain instant learning of new languages and sciences from Kartikeya and flying palaces.

I love Indian literature and have read more than my fair share, Vimana did not stand up to examination in my fairly wide look at it - most of the typically cited stuff in these discussions either ultimately comes from revisionist Hindu nationalists, misinformed AA stuff and people not realising the Vymanika Shastra is a document of about 100 years of age rather than the antiquity it is presented as, which is full of the most ridiculous drawings of aircraft one could hope for.

originally posted by: Dabrazzo
a reply to: AthlonSavage

even arguably outdoes our contemporary construction

Not that argueble the pyramids dont in any way shape or form outdo contempory construction.

really?

So then we move and precision stack 20+ ton stones now days?

Wrong....we could not built the great pyramid today if we had to, not to mention the most advanced tool of the time was a plum bob...which is a weighted string used to see if an object was level.

We are nowhere near advanced enough for this now.

a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I don't know if you have read the Mahabarata or not, so far i've only dipped into it and can claim no specific knowledge of Vimana from there but in the link i provided in my first post here 5 professors from the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore state that:

The most important of texts like
Ramayana and Mahabharata make
no mention of the use of aircraft
for travel, military, or war
purposes. The ‘Pushpak Vimana’
of Ramayana, as described
therein, has no flying qualities
except possibly by invocation of
‘mantras’ or ‘tantras’

Source

So it would be interesting to see direct quotations of Vimana as flying transport in the Ramayana and Mahabarata, as opposed to floating palaces of the Gods.

Often the Brihat-Katha is used as a source in blogs/discussions etc that talk of Vimanas too, trouble with that being that it is lost, is possibly entirely mythical (ie it never even existed in the first place) no copies of it exist and stories from it only survive in later tales such as The Kathasaritsagara, Brihatkathamanjari and others.

Besides this, it's author, Gunadya is supposedly a reincarnation of a mythical attendant of Shiva, sent down to earth for the transgression of overhearing stories meant only for the ears of Parvati. This provides the frame for the stories said to have been contained therein and subsequently repeated elsewhere.

Fabulous stories, and The Kathasaritsagara is one my favourite books, but there are no Vimana there despite the protestations of posters to me in previous discussions here on the subject.

I'd love to know of other specific references to Vimana (eta: as flying transport) in Indian Literature as i find the subject fascinating. They do appear in Purana, but these are not particularly old and may also have been modified in the last four hundred years i believe. I really don't think that Vimana are such an old tradition in Hindu mythology.

a reply to: skalla

They are really floating Palaces

Correct. I am familiar with the Pushpaka vimana of the Ramayana, which is, as you say, an airborne palace. Its owner, the demon-king Ravana, doesn't really need flying machines, since he and his army of asuras enjoy the power of flight themselves, just like Superman. Rama's Pushpaka vimana comes in more useful to his kidnap-victim Sita and her husband, Rama; they hijack it to take them home to Ayodhaya from Ravana's island of Lanka. Rama's monkey army also has the power of flight.

I challenge anybody posting on this thread to cite actual references to viman in the Mahabharata. Not because they aren't there, but because, as far as I know, there exists only one complete translation of the Mahabharata into English, and even that is a prose translation, so it's nothing like word for word. Here it is for anyone interested. It is humungous, it is boring, and I am willing to bet that none of the people talking about viman in this thread have actually read it. They only know about these references from web sites.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

Go watch youtube video of modern man using modern machinery to restore parts of the ancient structures. One I watching moving a face of a monument was quite amusing the had to build a structural frame over the piece which would be used for transporting sections of the monument. They couldn't lift the whole thing so cut pieces from it and then restored the pieces in sections and glued it part together. The point im am making is this, if your going to make bold statements show us the data, the comparisons and lets get right into the maths I can handle it can you?

Here is the fixed CNET.com Link from the OP. S&F

Really interesting to have an ancient alien press conference, but they need to talk about how a vimana flys.

Found this:

Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti-gravitational" and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power of the ego existing in man’s physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull."

According to Hindu Yogis, it is this "laghima" which enables a person to levitate. Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called "Astras" by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of "antima", "the cap of invisibility" and "garima", "how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead."

Link

So basically The Force?

Puma punku, Gobekli Tepe, Giza, Baalbek,and countless other sites show far more skill and technological ability than we currently possess.....the ancient world civilisation did exist......whether they had vimanas is debatable but far from excluded from possibility just yet.....