Sharing Heaven with Child Molesters?

a reply to: Stormdancer777

I am sorry to hear that Storm, but you are not alone. We learn and we live and if we choose, we forgive. I, for one, live every day to make sure that my children are safe from the wolves in society. I will die willingly to prevent any child from falling into the hands of predators.

This may be more suitable to another topic/forum, but let me pose this question:

Who is more evil, the actual offender or the person who knows it is going on and stands by doing nothing to stop it?

a reply to: randyvs

Spot on! If you are struggling with the answer for yourself then you have up until the last moment to convert/accept. If you hold out until the last moment to get every ounce out of something you know is wrong, the insincerity of the act is your own doom. Rinse, repeat, thanks for playing. See you next time on this was your life!

So am I. I pray for my abusers occasionally. I don't know why they did what they did. I never thought to ask them, although I wish I would have. Forgiving them, set me free.

We're all sinners. I suppose some folks like to simplify, categorize sin into columns of: not so bad, bad and downright horrible. Does it really matter?

Look at Saint Peter. A hot-headed, reactionary sinner. He went from catching fish to being a fisher of men. He dropped his nets and followed Jesus. He then denied Him three times, and was forgiven 3 times in return.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

a reply to: Ignatian

and was forgiven 3 times in return.

YES!

Greater is the love in the one who is greater than I.

a reply to: randyvs

Perhaps your personal idea of heaven is more complex and lively... I meant the regurgitated pablum of less mentally alive folks who've regaled me with their dogmatic beliefs regarding heaven and hell.

My own views consist of likelihoods... not exactly beliefs.

But a creative center of all intelligence must be ... awesome in the true sense of that word... and it's likely the totality of such a being will remain incomprehensible in our current state. Same goes for any state of being in the same 'neighborhood' as god... imo.

Heck, one person cannot understand the entirety of most academic disciplines ... let alone the entirety of creation.

ETA: oh and I'm curious... when you tell me to think for myself... where do you get your info/beliefs from? Others? A book, perhaps? A mix of the previous sources? If it popped into your head all formed with no other input, then I'm frankly jealous... as fully formed grand ideas are rare... for me, anyway.

In other words, nobody thinks entirely for themselves...

Psalm 139

My anger at God over past abuse, and my daughter getting cancer, was softened greatly praying this psalm. I still pray it often, when I sense that emotion creeping back.

He was there the entire time. He was holding my hand when that stuff was happening. I just didn't know it at the time. There's a plan in motion, all leading to a greater good. I've stopped thinking that I could ever figure out The Plan. So, I don't. And I'm done steering the car...I sucked at it.


a reply to: Stormdancer777

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Oh Storm... ignore me.

I am likely closer to the religious mindset than I seem... I just think most of the pop religions do a disservice to such a wonderful, infinitely creative force... and I don't think He would want us to be bent under some sin we were born with, but then again, mysterious ways and all that... I just don't know... but I certainly don't begrudge someone who does.

a reply to: Baddogma

In other words, nobody thinks entirely for themselves...

I'll give you that. And settle for a one word answer, practice.

And I hope you didn't take it as insulting, but if you did?
Grow some thicker skin.

a reply to: randyvs

I'll give you that. And settle for a one word answer, practice.

Okay.

ETA: No offense taken... religion is a touchy subject usually engendering anger more often than love... which is a prime reason I don't label myself under any affiliation! Er... sorry for the written mental diarrhea... I'm trying for constipation.

a reply to: Baddogma

I'm trying for constipation.

No worries some how we're gonna get thru this.

a reply to: Entreri06

If a person honestly repents of their sins, and truly accepts Jesus, then they are indeed forgiven, and will be in heaven. All sin separates us from God, unless we accept the Savior. A lot of people (though certainly nowhere near "all") do claim to have accepted Jesus in prison, and if they are sincere, then, yes, they'll be in heaven, but they won't be the sinners they have been here.

Doing good deeds doesn't get a person into heaven. It's not some sort of scale, where all your good is placed on one side, and all your bad on the other, and whatever direction it tips determines where you go. It's about accepting Jesus, or not accepting Him. We ALL sin, to one degree or another, and we ALL need forgiveness. The penalty is death, so He paid that, for all who will accept.

This might seem unfair, but is it, really? Not one person who ever walked the earth has been perfect, save God-become-Man, Jesus Himself. Does someone who committed a murder deserve less forgiveness than someone else, if they truly repent?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Entreri06

Actually I can wait till the last minute to convert.

Sure you can and I think it even mentions something to
that effect in scripture. I don't understand that childish
kind of mentallity. If you're going to do it with the required
sincerity in your heart, you wouldn't want to wait. Who
would want to be like the ten year old kid, riding his bike
down in the middle of the wash on a rainy day. It's just as
easy to ride a bike on the bike trail. Your lack of enthusiasm
defines you even to me. And you think God won't see right
thru you? Get a grip!

I'm just saying that all the "repent now the end is niegh" craziness doesn't even fit the world the bible is set in.

originally posted by: Bleeeargh
a reply to: Stormdancer777

I am sorry to hear that Storm, but you are not alone. We learn and we live and if we choose, we forgive. I, for one, live every day to make sure that my children are safe from the wolves in society. I will die willingly to prevent any child from falling into the hands of predators.

This may be more suitable to another topic/forum, but let me pose this question:

Who is more evil, the actual offender or the person who knows it is going on and stands by doing nothing to stop it?

And here's how it fits the OP, assuming they rep end some time later in life, won't they both go to heaven, while the child's who's life they ruined burns in hell because she was raised a buddist, atheist, Muslim, exc.....



Craziness....

When someone is born again they put aside all fleshly desires and lusts. The Bible teaches us so. There will be people in Heaven who were once child molesters, drug addicts, alcoholics, murderers, etc., that is until they repented and were saved.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (AKJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

You should be more worried about living here on earth, where there are who knows how many active child molesters, etc., than living in Heaven with people who have been cleansed from any type of sin by the blood of the Son of God, our Lord Savior, Jesus Christ.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Entreri06

If a person honestly repents of their sins, and truly accepts Jesus, then they are indeed forgiven, and will be in heaven. All sin separates us from God, unless we accept the Savior. A lot of people (though certainly nowhere near "all") do claim to have accepted Jesus in prison, and if they are sincere, then, yes, they'll be in heaven, but they won't be the sinners they have been here.

Doing good deeds doesn't get a person into heaven. It's not some sort of scale, where all your good is placed on one side, and all your bad on the other, and whatever direction it tips determines where you go. It's about accepting Jesus, or not accepting Him. We ALL sin, to one degree or another, and we ALL need forgiveness. The penalty is death, so He paid that, for all who will accept.

This might seem unfair, but is it, really? Not one person who ever walked the earth has been perfect, save God-become-Man, Jesus Himself. Does someone who committed a murder deserve less forgiveness than someone else, if they truly repent?

True but some crimes are far worse then others. Maybe the bible says all sun is the same, but we all know that's not true. Some one who disrespects there parent is not on the same level as a child molester...how ever the bible says we should (which is flipping nuts)....

originally posted by: jeramie
When someone is born again they put aside all fleshly desires and lusts. The Bible teaches us so. There will be people in Heaven who were once child molesters, drug addicts, alcoholics, murderers, etc., that is until they repented and were saved.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (AKJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

You should be more worried about living here on earth, where there are who knows how many active child molesters, etc., than living in Heaven with people who have been cleansed from any type of sin by the blood of the Son of God, our Lord Savior, Jesus Christ.

It's not about being safe in heaven, it's about the fact that god would punish Ghandi and reward a child rapist... Just for believing he really did make a half God baby..

Yep, there are degrees of sin. There's 2 types. Deadly sin and sin that is not deadly. It's in the Bible, and also logical and reasonable.
a reply to: Entreri06

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Entreri06



I was once told that Ghandi would be in Hell waiting for me due to myself not being a christian.

I argued heaven should be a place earnt on merit alone and was told no all I had to do was accept Jesus....

Balls to that Heaven and hell are made up anyhow.

yea it would be crazy to learn that hell exist just to punish those who have a problem with what goes on in heaven by exposing them to more of what they had a problem with in the first place

imagine a place where the human body is viewed as simply a suit of fllesh that is similar to a created object like a glass or a bowl that exist to be used

You're trying to roleplay God. God is God, and you're not.

What's between the hearts of Ghandi or a child rapist and God, is truly none of your business. Leave that up to God.


a reply to: Entreri06

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: Entreri06
Since mother Teresa lost faith before her death. That does mean her and Ghandi will be tortured for all eternity while millions of violent murderers reap the rewards of everlasting life?

No she didn't. She went through the Dark Night of the Soul which includes doubts. She was not an atheist before her death at all. I know there are people who like to pump that out for some reason, but it's not true. People need to educate themselves on Catholic spirituality and what the saints went through. It's pretty standard stuff.

Read this on Mother Teresa and the Dark Night of the Soul

As for 'ending up in heaven with sinners' ... we are all sinners ... and we will all be surprised at who 'makes it' and who doesn't. That's for God to decide and for God to judge the heart and soul. Not us.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Thank you for posting this. I am not Catholic, but I greatly admired Mother Theresa. The article was something I never knew about her. She was an inspiration to many.