VOTE: New Study: More Absentee Votes than Voters in Ohio

The Ohio recount of the 2004 presidential vote has brought out many irregularities, as well as bizarre behavior from the Secretary Of State in repeatedly locking down public records (and leaving them unsecured overnight). The stonewalling and lack of openness can only arouse suspicion no matter the party that a reader supports. Now, it's been verified (today) as a result of reviewing the absentee vote in Trumbull Ohio county that many more absentee votes were cast than there were absentee voters identified. An overstatement of exactly ten votes more than voters per precinct was common. There has been systematic fraud.





Scoop in NZ has broken the news about election fraud before it reaches the mainstream US press, for a few years now.

There is little coverage of what is going on right now in the Ohio recount process. The majority of Americans and many ATS members believe that the 2004 election result is conclusive because of the concession of one candidate. But the extent of fraud and specific, systematic irregularities in key states is an investigation that is only beginning with the recount process, sometimes supported by electoral officials and sometimes (as in the case of Blackwell in Ohio) resisted and stonewalled and with the audit trail being put at risk or criminally damaged and destroyed.


Locked down Ohio votes left in unsecured building: see below.

Related News Links:
www.dailykos.com

[edit on 12-12-2004 by Banshee]

So how about it americans, it now looks like fraud akin to the recent Ukrainian elections, and look what they did, after sustained pressure they'v forced a new election. Are you all going to just sit back and accept whats happened, or are you going to make a stand and do something?

Let me get this right the first time around.

we have breaking news from NZ that proves fraud took place in Ohio and we are to take this

Scoop in NZ has broken the news about election fraud before it reaches the mainstream US press, for a few years now.

I do not think so NZ but nice try. Not

Kept in mind I do respect the thoughts of our allies however not in this case. Bush won, too bad the real world can not face that simple and true fact...................

shots

Sorry buddy, you are way out of line and off beam. Geography of the publisher of the story is not relevant.

Scoop also published Bev Harris's work before any mainstream US medium would recognize it.

It's about news and journalistic integrity, not unfortunate national parochialism. The truth is contained in the story. It is an American story not a New Zealand story. Deny ignorance.

BTW, read the story in case you have not.

There are how many people in Ohio claiming voter fraud, etc., again?
The population of Ohio is what?
Hmm....I ran across this article and found it rather....odd?

COLUMBUS, Ohio - As it has done for 200 years, Ohio's delegation to the Electoral College (news - web sites) is to meet Monday to cast ballots for president and vice president � but this time, there are demands that the electors wait until after a recount. A demonstration was held Sunday as about 100 people gathered outside the Ohio Statehouse to protest the delegation's vote.

Protesters Urge Delay for Ohio Electors




seekerof

[edit on 12-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Well, you could post the population of Ohio if you want.

Here's a representative view from one of the 100:

"Yes, those of us in Ohio ARE on the front lines - and it feels like we are defending the Alamo. We are doing our part. A handful of determined people are working themselves to exhaustion. Yes, we ARE out there in the streets. And we ARE at the statehouse. And we ARE at the hearings. And we ARE filing the lawsuits. And we ARE out there doing the recount. And we ARE out there knocking on doors to investigate, verify and gather the facts.People all over the country who are web-tracking what's happening want to help, who feel helpless, frustrated, and sorry for us in Ohio, are offering good wishes and words of encourgement.

And believe me, we appreciate the encouragement. We do, and thank you for that. But we here in Ohio need more than a "You can do it" pat on the back. We ARE doing it. But nobody knows. Ohio is screaming the truth at the top of its lungs, literally, and no one hears us because of all the noise of the media silence.If you want to do something, here's what you can do to help.I am asking the rest of the country to please get out there and find well-known people who's voices are loud enought to be heard by the press who will stand up for us. Get a Senator or a media personality or anyone of very high profile to come out about this. The media blackout is killing us. Very few members of Congress, and no one in the Democratic Party has even seriously acknowledged the recount.

This is still looked at as the "sour grapes" effort of a couple of disgruntled 3rd party candidates who can't win anyway. It couldn't be further from that. The civil rights of every man, woman and child in America are at stake here.I don't care what it takes, convince somebody to break our story, to back us and give us the credibility we need and to let the world know we're here doing this. Redford, Sting, Kennedy, Fonda, Kerry... I don't care who, somebody, anybody who can attract the attention of the media (evidently John Conyers' and Jesse Jackson's brave voices are not loud enough.)

We've kinda got our hands full here, or we'd be doing that ourselves too. Give us a voice and we will deliver Ohio. Otherwise SOS Blackwell and the BOE will continue to slap us around like we don't matter a lick, at every turn. We are being squelched by a state government that is willing to violate our rights and even break the law as often as necessary to stand in our way and prevent us from exposing what they've done.I watched 100 of the greatest people I've ever met freeze their butts off for three hours Sunday, and 1500 the week before. And today people are out there at the Conyers hearing at the Columbus Statehouse again freezing, supporting the hearing, the investigation and the recount. And the Ohio recount has begun this morning.

If you want to help, please turn over every rock to find someone big who can get the media's attention who is willing to speak up for us. We need that. And we need it now. We'll take care of the rest. You'll have to pardon the tone of this message - I'm tired, I'm pissed and I'm still cold from yesterday. Thanks for anything you can do toward this. Democracy = the vote, Gary Polvinale Sandusky, Ohio"

That's well expressed. Go Ohio, good luck to the 100 who showed that they care and the people who are prepared to uncover the fraud.

I wonder what will be uncovered if the investigation is given all the facts. It seems to me that if the Democrats have not thrown political muscle behind this effort then they may be the ones with the dirty laundry. It is in both parties interest to cover up the fraud of the losing party. It is only in one parties interest to cover up the fraud of the winning party. Now what party do you suppose had their hand in the ballot cookie jar in Ohio? hmmm I wonder.

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Johannmon]

The point shouldn't be "Bush won, get over it." The point is, there was widespread fraud and corruption. Just because Bush won, should we forget about the un-American and anti-American assault on our democratic process?

Bush won. Fine. Now let's go and get the suckers who cheated and lied, and who essentially spit on the US by tampering with our election process. Democrat and/or Republican.

To all of the people who don't want the election reviewed I ask you: Why do you hate America?

Originally posted by curme

Bush won. Fine. Now let's go and get the suckers who cheated and lied, and who essentially spit on the US by tampering with our election process. Democrat and/or Republican.

Curme I have never agreed on anything you have ever said except for this one salient sentence. I agree on this one point.

I personally think it is a rigged election but that nothing will be done about it, same as last election in 2000. I think we should throw out the old election machines and give people two different colors of paper green for one party and blue for the other, you drop your sheet of paper in the sack for that party and shred the other. At the end of the day, weigh the sacks and to keep people from carrying weights and rocks in their clothing to give their candidate a few extra pounds, you got to vote nude. I don't know the answer unfortunately if there is a way to cheat some people will.

Kerry concession of defeat doesn't mean this is over with or because the White House declared Bush the winner before all the presumed votes are counted.

John Kerry and his associates are keeping a low profile battle, challenging the state's presidential election results. www.chron.com...

I think we need to start actually prosecuting people who stand in the way of election audits and FOIA requests just as if it was an act of treason... YES. i said it...
Election fraud could easily be construed as treason, and if people were worried about actually being killed or imprisoned for their actions, then they would act more carefully and legally.
this Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, co-chair of the Ohio Bush-Cheney campaign... should be brought up on charges of treason. Maybe that would scare a few election officials to be above reproach on voting issues... He should never have been the oversight for the election since he held a TOP position on one of the campaigns...
Am i the only person who sees how insane that is? WHO PUT POOH IN CHARGE OF THE HONEY POT? Do ya wonder why the honey is gone?...

America has been so "uncorrupt" (perceptably, at least) for so long, that most americans don't really believe that we could have election fraud...
the 10,000 pound gorilla hasn't taken a dump in there post tosties yet....
but it will.... and the stink will be great enough to cause a revolution of thinking... (i hope)

just a point for the people who still think that election fraud has never occured in America...
In 2000... in several electronic voting districts... GORE HAD NEGATIVE COUNTS... can't happen!... fraud is only possibility! in other words, the count ran like this... Bush= +12,342 votes.... Gore= -16,873 votes...
To anyone who hasn't been there, go see blackboxvoting.org

New Zealand got the story before any U.S newspapers?..... even the "liberal" newspapers?.....

*shakes head*



I ask...how exactly did they find out the "truth" from NEW ZEALAND about the voters in Ohio?..... Did they count the votes and voters from NZ?...

[edit on 20-12-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I think we need to start actually prosecuting people who stand in the way of election audits and FOIA requests just as if it was an act of treason... YES.

No problem with that analysis. But the electoral system has given rise to laws that can be so easily manipulated. Imagine for example the County that closed the doors to observers for the count on a trumped-up terrorist threat supposedly received that evening. Lies, lies and more lies to cover the fraud and manipulation of tallies.

Blackwell and others ought to be charged - with obstruction as the very minimum - and if they are found to have knowledge of the fraud while they caused obstruction, then treason is a suitable label for their actions.

US citizens that believe they live in a democratic nation where each person receives the power of one vote are deluding themselves.

Keep talking MA....
All the while:
Recount gives Bush presidential election for third time
Election conspiracy crowd wasting their time, taxpayer money


Wait, maybe you can contact Bev Harris over at www.blackboxvoting and have her present her "findings" before the Ohio Supreme Court?
Ohio Voters Refile Challenge of Presidential Results With State Supreme Court




seekerof

[edit on 20-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Seekerof, your first two snippets from morning journal have very little to do with reality or the topic at hand.

Try to focus more on the big picture and not arbitrary results that propagandsists try to extend into some resolution of the problem. Did you actually read them and understand why they were written?

Please point to any salient facts in them beyond one recount in one county. As per the norm, the articles you select are BS.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Keep talking MA....

It appears I must act under instruction...


Ohio vote count battles escalate amidst new evidence of potential criminal activity (Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman December 18, 2004)

The epic legal battle over Ohio's presidential vote count is back in the state Supreme Court, with an election challenge claiming George W. Bush was wrongly declared the winner on Nov. 2 and seeking a court-ordered reversal of that victory.

Meanwhile, efforts to recount Ohio's vote may have been fatally tainted by the Republican Party, raising questions of what the GOP has to hide, and prompting demands for criminal prosecution.

New affidavits point to possible criminal activity by top Ohio election officials, raising yet more questions about the 2004 vote...

"I was routinely told to violate the bidded contracts to order supplies from other companies for all 17 Secretary of State offices throughout the State which were cheaper vendors, leaving a cash surplus differential in the budget," Frazier states, "After complaining about the office's repeated practices of violating grants and contracts I was fired."

Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell has come under intense fire for his role in officiating the disputed Ohio balloting and vote count. Blackwell served as co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign while running an election he says went "smoothly."



That was smooth huh? I would hate to see something go roughly for the criminal Blackwell. What a mob of crooks.

The Presidential Election of 2004 is not over unless you are apathetic or you think Bush has the qualities of a leader and statesman at a time where his administration has caused much grief to the US at home and abroad.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar


The Presidential Election of 2004 is not over unless you are apathetic or you think Bush has the qualities of a leader and statesman at a time where his administration has caused much grief to the US at home and abroad.

I have been reading with at least some measure of interest to your posts MA until this last statement that causes me to think that this is all sour grapes for you. Looking at all that has happened to this point I would have to say that if there was voter fraud in OHio it was by the Dems with the republicans covering up for them. Otherwise the crazies in the democratic party would be howling into their propaganda outlets so loud it would stifle all other national news. You think if the fraud was Republican that Howard Dean would be silent or unable to get a listening ear in Dan Rather or NBC. I am all for going after voter fraud and any impropriety but to suggest that what happened in Ohio is sufficient to overturn the election just doesn't was with the facts currently at hand.

I remain open to new developments but feel quite certain that even should they come they will not cast a good light on John Kerry or the Democrats.

"Sour grapes" is an unfortunate conclusion that too many people read into the motivation of those who want to remove corruption and fraud from the electoral system.

What facts have you to hand? What trend analyses have you done or read that show the increases for one candidate and the decreases for the other, bringing the two 70,000 votes closer together on absentee and provisional votes? Why is that trend so radically different to the election day results, and in a counterintuitive direction? How can you possibly conclude that the result of the election would not be overturned? You are victim of propaganda like anyone who is led to believe the election has been squared away and done with. There are ways of acquiring current information that would have you supporting the mission of this site, rather than reaching ill-founded conclusions, but you choose not to pursue them.

What explanation do you have for the first and most extraordinary failing in history of the exit polls - where the most disparity and the least reliability in the polls as compared with the so-called "official" vote tabulations were in those Ohio counties that used voting machines?

Nothing in the counts or recounts or Supreme Court action supports the position you have presented, Johannmon.

To turn this into a partisan issue as if fraud and corruption can cast a good "light" on anyone is missing the point entirely.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

What facts have you to hand?

My point comes fromt the fact that there is no push from the democratic leadership to pursue this or make it mainstream. The absence of this effort, in and of itself implicates the Democrats in the voter fraud. As stated in an earlier post both parties have an interest incovering up the loosing parties fraud, but only the winning party has an interest in covering up its own fraud. Since there is no cry from the looser then the cover up is bipartisan and hence implicates the Democrats.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
You are victim of propaganda like anyone who is led to believe the election has been squared away and done with. There are ways of acquiring current information that would have you supporting the mission of this site, rather than reaching ill-founded conclusions, but you choose not to pursue them.
[\quote]
Actually I am waiting for any valid facts to come out. I have found none posted on reputable sources. There is only specuation and fundamentalist propaganda out there right now. As stated in a previous post I maintain an open mind on the situation but see far more danger ahead for Dems the Republicans. I must say I am a little suprised by your venom in responding. It seems over the top for someone seeking truth. It rather smacks of someone trying desperately to prove themselves right rather than find out what is right and true. If you have facts post them. I want to see them.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatarWhat explanation do you have for the first and most extraordinary failing in history of the exit polls - where the most disparity and the least reliability in the polls as compared with the so-called "official" vote tabulations were in those Ohio counties that used voting machines?

First failing of exit polls?!?! COme on surely you are not so young that you cannot remember Florida of 2000 fame. This is only the latest in the great failings of mass media to accurately report elections. I could make explanation of the difference by pointing to the desire of major broadcast media to elect John Kerry but that would be too speculative so I will only mention it as inuendo.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
To turn this into a partisan issue as if fraud and corruption can cast a good "light" on anyone is missing the point entirely.

You misconstrue my motives in posting as I have if you think that I post in order to gloss over election fraud or to make it a partisan isssue. I hope that whatever election fraud has taken place will be discovered in full and prosecuted. I have stated only my observations and what I feel are valid conclusions to be put to the test of time. My conclusions should in no way decrease the importance of a local effort to follow up on voting errors etc. I just do not believe this will become a national issue nor does it need to. Voter fraud has taken place in every election since George Washington. That being the case it needs to be pursued vehemently and prosecuted vehemently to prevent it from getting out of hand. For just as it is true that voter fraud has occured in each election in our nation's history, it is also true that such fraud has never in recorded history been of sufficient enough scale to swing an election. This record will only be maintained as we continue to pursue those who break the law on election day so crusade on. Simply stop villifying those who do not share your in your assumptions.