Step aside Darwinism, say hello to "Dissipation-driven adaptive organization"

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

This is a hypothesis not a theory. Widespread scientific acceptance needs to occur first before it can be called a theory. We should try not to confuse the laymen reading the thread, they do that enough on their own with the definition of "theory" anyways.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Actually i think it will be the end of Natural Selection.

Think for a minute about the implications of this new theory, please. In light of dissipation-driven adaptive organisation, can't you see how bloated natural selection is? Its even a little bit anthropomorphic, IMO.

No, please enlighten me. How is the theory of natural selection bloated?

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

I am just saying that from the perspective of the physics, you might call Darwinian evolution a special case of a more general phenomenon.”

I didn't know atoms and stars were "evolving".

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I disagree actually, if proven correct (which I suspect it will be), it will replace "Natural Selection" as the primary theory of evolution. So, it is very much a case of step aside Darwinism ... (Hmm, or should that be Natural Selection?)

There's no such thing as Darwinism. We aren't living in the 1800s. This wouldn't prove evolution wrong, it would be part of the mechanism if true and explain some things that we don't fully understand yet. How about we wait and see if this gets proven, then worry about the implications.

Lol, honestly I didn't think I would be having to explain this to you all. Its pretty self explanatory. What makes you guys react and then think later. What are the mechanics of this mad forum compunction? Aha, dissipation-driven adaptive organisation of course lol. It would explain some thing we don't understand yet indeed. If its explaining a mechanism we don't understand, you have to be having serious concentration issues if you carry on not understanding after having it just explained to you. Either that or you weren't interested in understanding to begin with.

a reply to: intrptr

The quote you mentioned is specifically referring to biological evolution, from a physics perspective, so I think youve based your comments on a flawed interpretation, and need to re-think it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Actually i think it will be the end of Natural Selection.

Think for a minute about the implications of this new theory, please. In light of dissipation-driven adaptive organisation, can't you see how bloated natural selection is? Its even a little bit anthropomorphic, IMO.

No, please enlighten me. How is the theory of natural selection bloated?

In light of dissipation driven adaptive organisation, which if true is the underlying mechanisms of all living organism in the physical universe, natural selection is bloated because it misinteprets that evolution and assumes its built around an anthropomorphic value structure that exists only within the complex human brain, something that entropy based dissipation driven adaptive organisation refutes.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

How does natural selection have human characteristics (what anthropomorphic means)? Please explain yourself better.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Actually i think it will be the end of Natural Selection.

Think for a minute about the implications of this new theory, please. In light of dissipation-driven adaptive organisation, can't you see how bloated natural selection is? Its even a little bit anthropomorphic, IMO.

No, please enlighten me. How is the theory of natural selection bloated?

In light of dissipation driven adaptive organisation, which if true is the underlying mechanisms of all living organism in the physical universe, natural selection is bloated because it misinteprets that evolution and assumes its built around an anthropomorphic value structure that exists only within the complex human brain, something that entropy based dissipation driven adaptive organisation refutes.

thats a lot of big words for trying to suggest a higher power might have entered the realm of possibility via this newest variation on evolution.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

The quote you mentioned is specifically referring to biological evolution…

But is compared to other non living phenomenon…

…the origin of living things could explain the formation of many other patterned structures in nature. Snowflakes, sand dunes and self-replicating vortices in the protoplanetary disk may all be examples of dissipation-driven adaptation.

I still don't see physics 'evolving or adapting'. Fr instance, Gravity is the same everywhere. Speed of light is a constant.

In that regard physics is "ordered" and life is chaotic. Life can adapt, heal and replicate. In the most simplest terms when a star is about to collide with another star it can't get out of the way. When a zebra encounters a lion it runs like hell.

I'll listen to where I got it wrong though, if you explain it better than he did.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Dissipation driven adaptive organisation theory refutes the theory in natural selection that for example says that a gene is passed on for its "surviveablility" (or fitness). DDAO theory is saying a gene is passed on because of physical constraints and laws making that the gene that gets passed on.

When you see natural selection in the light of DDAO, you can clearly see how anthropomorphic it is because it explains evolution in terms of being somehow based on self sentient value judgements instead of purely being an extension of the laws of of mechanics.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
Correct. This is 2014, however you will be surprised to know darwinists do still exist, and thereofore so does Darwinism.

Darwinists? Can you please reference me to some of them? The only folks I hear even using that term are creationists to falsely paint evolution as some kind of religion or belief system. It's called the theory of modern synthesis now, far beyond Darwin. What exactly is a Darwinist? It originally was used to distinguish advocates of Darwinian evolution from advocates of Lamarckian evolution when they were competing hypotheses, but that no longer applies.

The theory does not try to disprove anything, and no this isn't just a theory concerned with the origins of life, its a theory concerned with the continuum of all phenomena including life, not just its origins. You clearly didn't understand it very well.

I did not, probably because it's in business insider rather than livescience or sciencedaily. In your title it says "Step aside Darwinism", when the article does not suggest "Darwinism" (you mean modern evolutionary synthesis right?) would be falsified. I guess my issue was more about the title, but the article kind of jumps around talking about primordial soup in the beginning and then touches on natural selection near the end. They don't seem to really differentiate much between origin of life and evolution, but maybe it's just me.

a reply to: Barcs

I did not, probably because it's in business insider rather than livescience or sciencedaily.

Read my earlier replies to this statement.

If if you want I will change the title, and maybe then you can attempt to understand this theory a bit better? Please

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Dissipation driven adaptive organisation theory refutes the theory in natural selection that for example says that a gene is passed on for its "surviveablility" (or fitness). DDAO theory is saying a gene is passed on because of physical constraints and laws making that the gene that gets passed on.

When you see natural selection in the light of DDAO, you can clearly see how anthropomorphic it is because it explains evolution in terms of being somehow based on self sentient value judgements instead of purely being an extension of the laws of laws of mechanics.

But that's not true, the theory of natural selection DOESN'T say that there is a sentient, driving force propagating genes. It actually DOES say that it is being driven by natural laws of mechanics and biology. That is why this hypothesis merely fills in the blanks as opposed to overwrites the idea of natural selection.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Not that new of an idea, 'emergence' as a property of a 'system' has long been acknowledged.

What is new here is that Jeremy England's theory explains the mechanism of the emergence of new systems. As such, it doesn't contradict Darwin whatsoever but details one pathway for evolution.

Nice find, thanx.

a reply to: intrptr

No you're still confusing the two. Did you read the article?

Let me put it this way. Dissipation-driven Adaptive Organisation (DDAO), is an attempt to explain WHY phenomena in the physical universe form the way they do, including life. Evolution refers to the evolution of living organisms, however, DDAO tries to also explain not necessarily the evolution of physical forms, but the underlying principles that govern the WAY they form.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, youre right it doesn't say explicitly, but it assumes in many ways, that there IS. For example the notion of survival of the fittest. DDAO refutes that by saying it is survival of the most dissipation driven adaptive organism. Lol ok you could saynfittest... WHATEVER

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: Grimpachi

The article is well written, and includes valuable commentrary from multiple Professors from Universities like Harvard and Oxford.

The average reader imo will find the article much easier to understand than the text you just quoted. As journalism goes I don't think this is too bad, and I don't think the source being a business magazine matters at all in this case.

And yet you failed to see this commentary:

Others, such as Eugene Shakhnovich, a professor of chemistry, chemical biology and biophysics at Harvard University, are not convinced. “Jeremy’s ideas are interesting and potentially promising, but at this point are extremely speculative, especially as applied to life phenomena,” Shakhnovich said.

I took a peek at the orginal source, thanx CrazySh0t, and there is way too much math for me to make head or tails of.

a reply to: FyreByrd

I failed nothing. You failed. I would include that in the umbrella of valuable commentary,as it shows there is a healthy amount of skepticism about his ideas. The hypothesis is still young.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

DDAO refutes that by saying it is survival of the most dissipation driven adaptive organism.

dis·si·pa·tion
ˌdisəˈpāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: dissipation; plural noun: dissipations
1.
dissipated living.
"a descent into drunkenness and sexual dissipation"
synonyms: debauchery, decadence, dissoluteness, dissolution, intemperance, excess, overconsumption, profligacy, self-indulgence, wildness; More
antonyms: asceticism
2.
squandering of money, energy, or resources.
"the dissipation of the country's mineral wealth"
synonyms: squandering, frittering (away), waste, misspending; More
antonyms: preservation, accumulation
PHYSICS
loss of energy, especially by its conversion into heat.

driven adjective
: very determined to succeed

Full Definition of DRIVEN

1: having a compulsive or urgent quality
2: propelled or motivated by something —used in combination

a·dapt·ive
əˈdaptiv/Submit
adjectivetechnical
adjective: adaptive
characterized by or given to adaptation.
"mutation is ultimately essential for adaptive evolution in all populations"

ad·ap·ta·tion noun \ˌa-ˌdap-ˈtā-shən, -dəp-\
: something that is adapted; especially : a movie, book, play, etc., that is changed so that it can be presented in another form

: a change in a plant or animal that makes it better able to live in a particular place or situation

: the process of changing to fit some purpose or situation : the process of adapting

or·gan·ism
ˈôrɡəˌnizəm/
noun
an individual animal, plant, or single-celled life form.
synonyms: living thing, being, creature, animal, plant, life form
"fish and other organisms"
the material structure of an individual life form.
"the heart's contribution to the maintenance of the human organism"
a whole with interdependent parts, likened to a living being.
"the upper strata of the American social organism"
synonyms: structure, system, organization, entity
"a complex political organism"

It seems that DDAO fits in with natural selection and evolution just fine going by the definitions.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Yes, maybe so, but if you fully comprehend it, you will realise soon it will come to supersede Natural Selection, if proven.

To supercede is to take someone else's position. A basketball team that moves into first places supercedes the team that was in first place before. Also, non-physical things can supercede each other — one law could supercede another. Supercede is considered a variant spelling of supersede, the more common way to spell this verb.

www.vocabulary.com...