Is your establishment a 'gay bar'? The right to refuse goes both ways.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: cuckooold
Unless I am reading this incorrectly they are not refusing service. It is the customer making his employees aware so they have a choice?

THEY canceled the event, because the client merely ASKED ...

I don't think a business should be able to discriminate - why would they even want to? A business is there to make money, surely Gay/Black/old people money is as good as straight/pink/emo teenager money?

What I do think though is that the law should be equally enforced. IF a Christian couple running a B&B can get taken to court for refusing a Gay couple, then a Gay bar can be taken to Court for refusing service to non-gay clients.

I don't even know why there is a need for "gay" bars anyway. God knows there would be an uproar if I opened a Bar and designated it "straight only".

Why should we segregate ourselves? I assume I am like most people and simply couldn't be less interested in what people get up to in their own private lives, I work with several gay blokes and they're just your normal chaps - live and let live.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Not sure how it works in the US but here even if a employer wins a employment tribunal they lose as they still have to pay a average of £8K so in most of cases company's end up settling out of court.

Either way business try and go out there way to avoid being taken to court.

a reply to: cuckooold

Alex Proud sounds a little too proud, it sounds like his ego was hurt. All they asked was whether or not it was a gay bar due to the fact that some of the employees are religious, they weren't trying to cancel, they would have just got other employees to do the shift.. That was completely foolish on his part, he lashed out and I think he appeared immature.

I think business' have the right to refuse customers, like a wedding cake bakery here in Australia that was sued for not catering to a gay couple because the bakery was owned by Christians. It's their shop, their business, their choice. You can't force them to go against their religious beliefs.

Christians baking a cake for a gay wedding is like Jews and Moslems eating a bacon burger.

I love the reply email, who books without knowing the venue, brain fart moment.

a reply to: stumason

I've never personally known of any gay bars that would not serve straights. I've been to a few gay bars with friends, and I was welcomed.

Gay bars originated as places where gays could be free to be themselves without any bullying or taunting. They could hang out, dance, meet prospective partners -- stuff that would be much harder to do in a predominately straight establishment.
I've known plenty of gays that go to regular bars - it's not like they refuse to go - it's just nice for them to have a place where they can feel comfortable to "let it all hang out" as a gay person, and not offend those who don't like it "rammed down their throat".

a reply to: acackohfcc
Second email not showing when first posted. Based on the emails it looks like a total overreaction by the bar owner. If the bar is not suitable for the crowd who who booked he could just give them an option to cancel. Not all bars/clubs are sutabile for a work night out but his reaction looks like discrimination.

originally posted by: Emerald53

Christians baking a cake for a gay wedding is like Jews and Moslems eating a bacon burger.

Not a great analogy. What ingredients go into a "gay wedding cake"? Are they different then the ingredients that go into a straight wedding cake?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Quite, same here. I was often amused at the sign outside one in Reading which had "entrance at rear" on the front of the Pub..

As for Gay bars in general, I suppose what I was hinting at would be a "perfect world" situation but as we know, we're far from it at the moment.

What right to refuse are we talking about? As far as I can tell anyone who refuses to cater to every whim and desire of a gay customer gets sued, libeled in the media, and eventually has their business closed or forfeited.

originally posted by: Emerald53

Christians baking a cake for a gay wedding is like Jews and Moslems eating a bacon burger.

Not really. The closest you could get with that analogy is "Christians baking a cake for a gay wedding is like Jews and Muslims cooking a bacon burger." But even that doesn't really work, because it's not like the cake is "gay" per say. It's just a cake. It just happens to have the distinction of being served at a wedding between two gay people.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Not really. The closest you could get with that analogy is "Christians baking a cake for a gay wedding is like Jews and Muslims cooking a bacon burger." But even that doesn't really work, because it's not like the cake is "gay" per say. It's just a cake. It just happens to have the distinction of being served at a wedding between two gay people.

Here

If I recall properly the business was not just a bakery but a catering company. A Christian small business catering to a homosexual wedding ? Is that ingredients enough for you..

What if I came to Alex Proud's gay bar singing gospel songs and preaching repentance, and Jesus Christ. I'd probably be asked to leave. Those at the gay bar would feel close to how those Christians would have felt being forced to cater for a celebration of an damnable deed in their eyes.

So does this mean I can sue gay bars for not letting me in due to their hetrophobic stance?

(sarcasm ish)

a reply to: jjkenobi
Utter nonsense you can provide or not any service you wish(within the law). You just can't provide a service to one person and not another based on their race, religion or sexuality.

a reply to: Emerald53

You don't have to stock same-sex cake toppers, but if someone asks you for a simple white wedding cake, it's none of your business who it's for. If you want to discriminate against someone because of their race, their religion or their sexual orientation, then maybe a business open to the public is not something you should be a part of.

To be honest, if you went into a straight bar singing gospel hymns and preaching repentance and Jesus Christ - you would probably be asked to leave. That's because you are being disruptive. Again, not a great analogy.

a reply to: kaylaluv
Exactly, you can choose what products or services you provide. You just can't choose who you provide then to based on race,religion or sexuality.
My partner used to have a cake business. As a business decision she didn't do erotic cakes (some of the places she was asked to put whipped cream....). However she didn't provide them to anyone, no discrimination.

a reply to: kaylaluv

That's a good point, I'm sure they would have simply baked them a cake, however I have mentioned several times that this was a catering company, not simply a bakery.

As I said in my previous reply. I would be asked to leave. This bar is a rave bar however, so it wouldn't be a matter of disruption but the matter of fact that gays don't want me going into their abode proclaiming contrary to their beliefs, just as Christians don't want gays coming into our abode forcing us to cater to their beliefs. We contrast each other, in society there a groups that contrast each other, I wouldn't expect gays to welcome a Christian into their gay rave preaching against gay raves. Don't expect Christians to cater to what condemns them.

originally posted by: Emerald53

As I said in my previous reply. I would be asked to leave. This bar is a rave bar however, so it wouldn't be a matter of disruption but the matter of fact that gays don't want me going into their abode proclaiming contrary to their beliefs, just as Christians don't want gays coming into our abode forcing us to cater to their beliefs. We contrast each other, in society there a groups that contrast each other, I wouldn't expect gays to welcome a Christian into their gay rave preaching against gay raves. Don't expect Christians to cater to what condemns them.

It certainly would be disruptive, as in, it would upset the patrons. No one wants to hear a sermon while they are at a bar, gay or straight. A bar is not set up to be a church - it's a bar.

A bakery, on the other hand, is set up to be a bakery. If someone asks for a standard wedding cake, that's not being disruptive - it's just asking for a product regularly sold at the bakery. If you only want to sell a standard wedding cake to certain people and not to other people, simply on the basis of their skin color, religion or sexual orientation - then you don't need to own a public business.

a reply to: kaylaluv

How odd, this is the second time I've had to tell you that the business is not merely a bakery but a catering company. They would have had to go to the wedding ceremony and cater to the couple the whole time they celebrated their wedding. That is a Christian nightmare as equally as it is gay nightmare that I would come into a gar bar preaching against their deeds.

You're discriminating against religious business owners than. You're saying if they don't agree with what is politically correct at the time than they shouldn't own a business ? It's not that Christians are discriminating against the people, it's the deed we don't like. It's against our law to serve you. You can't force us to break our moral convictions.

a reply to: kaylaluv

a reply to: Emerald53

From my understanding, a business reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. It may not be a smart business move to anger the gay community by refusing to cater a wedding, but it is certainly within their right. I could open a bar in the U.S. right now that says "No blacks allowed" and I wouldn't be breaking any laws. I wouldn't stay open for very long, but I also wouldn't be arrested.