Did NASA just admit they never put Man on The Moon? [Video]

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Kelly Smith was just stating that protecting the craft and
occupants from radiation is just one of the many hazards
that have to be figured into the equation of manned space flight.
Current(in her timeline) and future missions.

No more, and no less than that.

One must be careful not to interpret words out of context.
That , in of itself, is a great challenge these days.

Cool that your interested in this science ,
just don't let curiosity kill the cat.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

They were shielded by many things on Apollo. There was shielding by the outer skin, the electronics, the service module, etc.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

its a new craft.. new crafts come with their own problem..

no one ever said there would be no issues at all when making a new car, they over come these problems with engineers.

otherwise what would be the point of having them in the first place if all the worlds engineering problems only need to be solved once and can be used for all applications?

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

Apollo spacecrafts only had a heat shield for rentering the Earths atmosphere which had absolutely no effect when it came to radiation protection for the Apollo crew or computer systems.

More specifically an ablative heat shield that consists of a layer of plastic resin; the outer surface of which is heated to a gas which carries the heat away by convection. Such shields were used on the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo spacecraft.

-MM

They used a combination of speed, low exposure, and the insulation of the Command Module. It was not ideal, but it was enough. We would not try the same today, and would use polyethylene or something like it. Definitely not lead haha, wow whoever came up with that 6 feet of lead is a funny guy.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

It's an accurate statement of fact and doesn't negate the other fact that people have been sent through that region of space. VAB radiation is a challenge that's waiting for a more elegant solution than increased shielding which demands increased payloads and higher costs.

Just getting a payload into orbit is a constant challenge and fraught with failures even though we continue to do so.

Challenge isn't a synonym for 'impossible.'

All the Apollo astronauts seem to not have been affected by their travel though the Vann Allen Belts 40-45 years later, so why is NASA in 2014 saying "We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space." No astronaut has been gotten as much as radiation sickness from the Vann Allen Belts according to NASA, but still it somehow is a "challenge" to "send people through this region of Space" which "must be solved". The NASA statement makes not sense; if none has been harmed in 40-45 years by the Vann Allen Belts, then why is it a "challenge" to "send people through this region of Space", and why "must it be solved" if there has been no recorded related health problems from the Apollo astronauts in the last 40-45 years.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Well, it wouldn't make sense them saying:

We must solve these challenges after we send people through this region of Space.

Last I checked the two missions aren't they same, so they still have the same problem and they still have to make adequate preparations before they launch the mission.

Needless to say this is a very simplistic statement. Yes, there is deadly radiation in the Van Allen belts, but the nature of that radiation was known to the Apollo engineers and they were able to make suitable preparations. The principle danger of the Van Allen belts is high-energy protons, which are not that difficult to shield against. And the Apollo navigators plotted a course through the thinnest parts of the belts and arranged for the spacecraft to pass through them quickly, limiting the exposure.

The Van Allen belts span only about forty degrees of earth's latitude -- twenty degrees above and below the magnetic equator. The diagrams of Apollo's translunar trajectory printed in various press releases are not entirely accurate. They tend to show only a two-dimensional version of the actual trajectory. The actual trajectory was three-dimensional. The highly technical reports of Apollo, accessible to but not generally understood by the public, give the three-dimensional details of the translunar trajectory.

Each mission flew a slightly different trajectory in order to access its landing site, but the orbital inclination of the translunar coast trajectory was always in the neighborhood of 30°. Stated another way, the geometric plane containing the translunar trajectory was inclined to the earth's equator by about 30°. A spacecraft following that trajectory would bypass all but the edges of the Van Allen belts.

This is not to dispute that passage through the Van Allen belts would be dangerous. But NASA conducted a series of experiments designed to investigate the nature of the Van Allen belts, culminating in the repeated traversal of the Southern Atlantic Magnetic Anomaly (an intense, low-hanging patch of Van Allen belt) by the Gemini 10 astronauts.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
All the Apollo astronauts seem to not have been affected by their travel though the Vann Allen Belts 40-45 years later, so why is NASA in 2014 saying "We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space."

Try actually reading what was said....

Radiation like this can harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion.

No astronaut has been gotten as much as radiation sickness from the Vann Allen Belts according to NASA

So why are you going on about it?

The NASA statement makes not sense;

If you read it, it makes perfect sense!

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

It's an accurate statement of fact and doesn't negate the other fact that people have been sent through that region of space. VAB radiation is a challenge that's waiting for a more elegant solution than increased shielding which demands increased payloads and higher costs.

Just getting a payload into orbit is a constant challenge and fraught with failures even though we continue to do so.

Challenge isn't a synonym for 'impossible.'

All the Apollo astronauts seem to not have been affected by their travel though the Vann Allen Belts 40-45 years later, so why is NASA in 2014 saying "We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space." No astronaut has been gotten as much as radiation sickness from the Vann Allen Belts according to NASA, but still it somehow is a "challenge" to "send people through this region of Space". The NASA statement makes not sense; if none has been harmed in 40-45 years by the Vann Allen Belts, then why is it a "challenge" to "send people through this region of Space".

-MM

because its a new craft with its own issues..

would civil engineers who built the brooklyn bridge use the exact same numbers, materials and methods to construct the sydney harbour bridge??

originally posted by: hellobruce
Try actually reading what was said....

Radiation like this can harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion.

No astronaut has been gotten as much as radiation sickness from the Vann Allen Belts according to NASA

So why are you going on about it?

As stated in my OP, NASA says in the 2014 video that the problem is sending people through the Van Allen Belts:

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

When did Astronauts travel to Mars? That is what this is talking about.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

When did Astronauts travel to Mars? That is what this is talking about.

As explained in text and in the infographics in my OP; the Vann Allen Belts are located between the Earth and the Moon. Are you saying that we don't have to cross the Vann Allen Belts if we travel to the Moon? Do you know a shortcut, perhaps?

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

No, as I explained, when he said ...

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

... The Van Allen belt is just one of the dangers mentioned. It's not even what he considers the most dangerous one, so why are you focusing on it? It takes the entire statement out of context, perhaps that was your plan?

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Yes, I understand where you're coming from and why you ask these questions. They're honest concerns.

NASA's Apollo missions took pains to minimise the risks of VAB radiation and were successful. That doesn't then lead to concluding that radiation is no problem - it remains a challenge. Kelly Smith isn't just referring to the people, he's recognising the risks radiation may pose to life-support, on-board technology and the sensors outside. I imagine that with increasingly complex technology there comes an increased risk of failures.

Science knows more about VAB radiation today and how it can fluctuate from high MeV to low. Future missions would seek to minimise the existing risks at lower costs or improve earlier technology.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

When did Astronauts travel to Mars? That is what this is talking about.

As explained in text and in the infographics in my OP; the Vann Allen Belts are located between the Earth and the Moon. Are you saying that we don't have to cross the Vann Allen Belts if we travel to the Moon? Do you know a shortcut, perhaps?

-MM

The belts are 3d not flat and are actually donut shaped around the earth. The apollo missions went at a high latitude to go "over" the edge of the donut to minimise exposure. In addition the path was chosen to go through areas of low density.

So the NASA statements are true but that does not mean Apollo did not happen. It means peoples understanding of the 3 dimensions of space are lacking. Kahn versus Kirk !!

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: hellobruce
Try actually reading what was said....

Radiation like this can harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion.

No astronaut has been gotten as much as radiation sickness from the Vann Allen Belts according to NASA

So why are you going on about it?

As stated in my OP, NASA says in the 2014 video that the problem is sending people through the Van Allen Belts:

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

-MM

No, he is not saying the problem is sending people. He says they have to make sure they have everything working and tested before they send people.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

No, as I explained, when he said ...

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

... The Van Allen belt is just one of the dangers mentioned. It's not even what he considers the most dangerous one, so why are you focusing on it? It takes the entire statement out of context, perhaps that was your plan?

I'm sure any space mission is frauth with challenges; I'm scrutinizing one of these here by placing it in the context of the Apollo Program, out of which come some surprising logical defaults that contradict established historical facts.

-MM

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

No, as I explained, when he said ...

We must solve these challenges before we send people through this region of Space.

... The Van Allen belt is just one of the dangers mentioned. It's not even what he considers the most dangerous one, so why are you focusing on it? It takes the entire statement out of context, perhaps that was your plan?

I'm sure any space mission is frauth with challenges; I'm scrutinizing one of these here by placing it in the context of the Apollo Program, out of which come some surprising logical defaults that contradicts established historical facts.

-MM

it doesnt contradict..

the problem he is reffering to is the properly shielding of the ELECTRONICS AND GUIDANCE COMPUTERS.. this must be solved before they can send people to the region..

in other words, if they DO NOT solve this problem, then when they send people to the region and the VAB damages the guidance computer due to poor shielding of the electronics, radiation is the last of the problems..

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

To get to Mars you have to go through different regions of space than going to the moon. When going to the moon they could go through the thinnest parts of the belt, at high speeds. This minimized the risk to the astronauts.

Going to Mars is an entirely different set of challenges, a major one of which is long term radiation exposure during the flight there and back.

a reply to: choos

You might deduct that from the context of the video; but they are actually saying that the challenge is sending "people" through the Vann Allan Belt. Still, computers or people - the point is how come this is a challenge 45 years after we supposedly went there for the first time. NASA had the same challenges back then as they do now, it is not like the Vann Allen Belt has changed since then or anything.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

It has been explained to you multiple times it does not, you are being obtuse and clearly are not interested in truth or honest debate.

Before we can send astronauts into space on Orion, we have to test all of its systems, and there’s only one way to know if we got it right; fly it in space.

Orion has protection, shielding will be put to the test as the vehicle cuts through the waves of radiation. Sensors aboard will record radiation levels for scientists to study.

They have all the systems completed to protect the Astronauts. They just need to test them. They have protection against the radiation.

Deny or embrace ignorance. Ball is in your court.