TIPS !

a reply to: Denoli

You and Grovit are 100% correct. You are not a "mannerless OAF." There is absolutely no reason for automatic tipping. I am not unwilling to tip for VERY good service, but for regular service? Nope. Why should I pay someone to do the bare minimum? That is what the employer should be doing.

I had my own anti-tipping thread a while back, and it went much like yours. Extortion, whining about servers getting low pay, and claims that food will cost more without tipping. It's all crap. I am in Canada so, like you, tipping is an "option" here. Except it isn't. If you don't tip the server looks at you like you murdered his or her puppy and ate its kidneys. My sister is a server and I tell her the same thing; you have a wage. You have a job because customers go to your restaurant. Be happy with that. Many people are unemployed. Last year at a family meal, my sister insisted we all chip in to tip the waiter who brought the wrong dish twice, forgot to fill our drink glasses, dropped food. Why the hell would I tip someone to screw up at his job? If you or I screw up we get fired. It's quite simple. Tipping has gone way beyond rewarding good service. Now servers expect to get tipped no matter how crappy the service is.

The claim that costs will increase is, in my experience, bunk. I don't find dining out terribly expensive here in Canada, and when I was in Taiwan (where tipping is frowned upon), it was very cheap to eat out. At my hotel, the housekeeper, doorman, and front desk staff refused my attempts to tip them (and the service was far better than it is here). There they did the job because it was their job. How refreshing!

The last thing people (usually servers and restaurant owners) try to use to convince you that tipping is necessary is the low hourly wages in the U.S. First, that is not the customer's problem. Second, it's bunk. If the server does not earn enough in tips to reach minimum wage on top of the $2.13 per hour, the employer is required by law to make up the difference. If anyone tells you otherwise, they are uninformed or scamming. It is up to the server to go to his or her employer if minimum wage is not reached from the initial $2.13 plus tips.

If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

www.dol.gov...

Thank you invisible owl .
Even having a rant is hardwork on ats

a reply to: InvisibleOwl

what you are arguing is like going to strip club and not throwing money down just because you paid the cover charge.
Technically they will be dancing anyways so why tip?

Maybe you cant afford it. I dont walk into an expensive place I cant afford or one I disagree with in practice or otherwise. You still eat out and lie when walking in pretending to be like every other customer. You disagree and think something that is radically different than most. Maybe the service industry is not for you like a strip club is not for others.

The US is not other places, its the US. Here you tip for many reasons. Dont like it? then dont eat out in the US.

You mentioned Asian countries where tipping is culturally unacceptable. OK. Thats fine for them. In the US we expect it. Thats what you do here.

The cost would go up. I have no idea how you think it wouldnt. How in the hell are people supposed to pay servers more if they dont just charge you more on top of what they already charge? What else do you get for free?

What would you do if you went to a restaurant where tipping was not allowed but they put a 12% service cost to the bill? Would you argue against that or pay it?

What if they didnt even mark it as 12% more, they just charged more for everything so they could pay people more, would you pay it? Or would you go to the cheaper place with no additional costs and then proceed to not tip people?

If you dont want to tip then dont. You shouldnt go out as well. You seem to not be able to afford it and living above your means is wrong.

It is insulting to people who dont know that you feel so strongly against it. You should warn them upfront so they provide you with only the food you pay for and so they can focus on other people who will allow them to pay bills and eat.

Walking into a place were everyone else will tip and expecting the same SERVICE is BS. You shouldnt eat out. Get your food to go and eat it in the parking lot. That way the busboy isnt working for free, the bartender and food runner arent working for free and the waiter isnt working for free.

Regardless of the salary being your problem or not, that is the way it is and if you eat out in the US then you should know better. People like you are the reason why some people get burned out of the hospitality industry. You have no concept of manners and consideration.

You live in your own world. That is a weirdo thing to do.

EDIT TO ADD:
Did you say that your sister is a server?!?! LOL, yeah no, you are so evolved emotionally and ethically. We are being greedy.

a reply to: Denoli

By the way OP, I think its fine to not tip in the UK. You guys already factor in the cost into the bill. SOO you dont really have to give more.

You guys also get raped in the cost of food and drinks when paying.....you pay the server the same no matter how much he is a tool, rude or incompetent....., so enjoy that.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Denoli

By the way OP, I think its fine to not tip in the UK. You guys already factor in the cost into the bill. SOO you dont really have to give more.

You guys also get raped in the cost of food and drinks when paying.....you pay the server the same no matter how much he is a tool, rude or incompetent....., so enjoy that.

I, on the other hand, came back to a bar that I hadn't been to in 4 years because I was working in another town and.... The right pint was in from of me when she asked what had been going on all this time. Didn't even have to ask.

I think it comes down to attitude, taking away high class the english as a whole expect a certain level of service and thats included in the bill.

We do not as a whole expect anything more than our food to be brought to us.

A point I would make in comparison is that the delivery of food in restaraunt service is more than the waiter/waitress.

How is the kitchen staff incorperated into American service please?

a reply to: tadaman

a reply to: intrepid

Sir you seem like the sort of person I would run 5 city blocks for something if we didnt have it.

I would fight for a parking space for you, would go into the kitchen and whip up what ever you felt like having and would do generally anything that my best friend would ask for. I assure you I would remember what you drink.

You understand.

You don't have to tip Period it is not the law and never has been the law.
Tip if your feeling flush and don't if your bills are stacking up.
Simple math should tell you if tipping is appropriate in any situation you happen across in your Restaurant/Bar/Pub experiences.

Regards, Iwinder

Hello? Testing, ONE TWO, ONE,TWO.

Earth to base, can anybody see this?

a reply to: nonspecific

Well for one, sometimes you tip the kitchen and dont even know it. The food runner is part of back of house staff. They get tipped and generally they make the same if not more than a waiter. Sometimes there is a pool for kitchen staff taken from everyone else´s tips if tips are pooled. There are even places with a "buy the kitchen a round" option in the menu. In Europe we shared our tips with the kitchen.

They also get paid MUCH MUCH more and dont have to compete for schedules or "good" shifts. They also have health insurance when others dont, have more time off when others dont, get to come in later and leave earlier and a whole host of other reasons. Not everyone can cook or take the pressure. Thats why they get more. They also go to FAR more schooling than others. All universities worth a damn have hospitality courses for just about the same tuition an aspiring engineer pays.

The UK may not want more or less service than what is expected. In the US we have people who will not even look at a menu and order what they want. They will have all sorts of considerations and requests that we are happy to comply with, but that take away time and effort from other tables and customers. They should know that if you want more, it will cost more. Its not a hard concept.

Most people that want a beer and alone time eat at a bar. Thats fine mind you. I prefer an Irish pub with fried everything over a sit down 3 course meal place. BUT when I go to nicer places I do like the Romans.

Kitchen positions are the best paid, most rested and most appreciated in the industry. Its HARD to get hired as even a line cook. Most cant cut it. I have worked since my teens in restaurants and hotels. Even I have a hard time sometimes in the kitchen under fire. Its HARD ASS WORK and is compensated accordingly.

You could have your entire wait staff walk out on a Monday and have them replaced by Wednesday. If your kitchen walks out you have to close your restaurant for a month sometimes. Its also hard to hire them. They know how much they want to get paid and if you dont they walk.

Thank you for your final response, things must be very different in the US

In the UK it is not hard to earn more as a waitress (server) than a line chef. I have worked in several positions where you can earm more as a porter(pot washer) than you can as a chef because of tips.

I find this interesting but also disapointing for trained chefs in the UK.

Thank you for your input.

a reply to: tadaman

a reply to: nonspecific

Yeah I think its very different. I understand not tipping in the UK. Its absurd not to do so in the US.

Have a good one sir.
Hold it down.

You may say that but our service is poor.

There is no reason for it to be otherwise but it's free...

a reply to: tadaman

I tip, and generously. At one time I was a waitress, it is a hard job physically and often here in the US people can be extraordinarily rude. There is no minimum wage for wait staff, they rely on tips to make a living. People who do that job are unskilled, sometime college students, often single mothers. I am not referring to upscale restaurants with a chef and all the bells and whistles, whole other deal there. I am talking about chain restaurants and your local eateries. If I could afford to leave $100 or more even, I would.

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Denoli

Please stay home if you don't understand the dining experience.

Ooh I saw a rock move and it must of been you crawling from underneath it !

I do understand it !
Just like to have a meal and a drink !
Do you get that ?
Like earlier poster put !
As long as it's on a plate and warm I don't give a # !
And if any bad manners by the staff who's taking my money then I'll tell them or the manager !

Excellent, I highly doubt you go to fine dining anyways so I'm sure the Dennys waitress must suffer you.

originally posted by: Lysergic

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Denoli

Please stay home if you don't understand the dining experience.

Ooh I saw a rock move and it must of been you crawling from underneath it !

I do understand it !
Just like to have a meal and a drink !
Do you get that ?
Like earlier poster put !
As long as it's on a plate and warm I don't give a # !
And if any bad manners by the staff who's taking my money then I'll tell them or the manager !

Excellent, I highly doubt you go to fine dining anyways so I'm sure the Dennys waitress must suffer you.

What's Denny's ?
Why do u think I don't fine dine ?
100 % of the time I don't like to fine dine .
But I do and feel like I'm in some badly scripted play ,trying to be someone I ain't and to be honest half the fine dine dishes I've had have been #e

a reply to: Denoli

Fine dining is usually about being somewhere that's a current hotspot, "a place to be", a notable establishment, etc, etc, etc.

I'll be blunt, most people who are so rich they don't have to interact with society eat in private because it's food they trust, in conditions they trust and it's just how they want it.

When the television showed Mr. Burns from The Simpsons (that show is super useful in disseminating information to the public) eating his meals alone in a giant dining room, that's truly how the ones near the top eat. There's a form of etiquette that dictates eating isn't a public affair to be shared among strangers like in restaurants.

I get what your saying
But I would never do that , it must just be to get there kicks out of " hey look at me affording to pay all this money and I still look like a loner "
I think the term " I'm showing off in certain area to replace something I'm missing in another " springs to mind .