Is feminism sociologically unhelpfull? Or is it a true reflection of society?

a reply to: InfamousSiren

it's interesting to note that of all those inferior souls you list
women were the last to gain the right to vote in the US
I wonder if that meant that they thought women were inferior to all?

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

I often hear from some on this thread how the women of times gone by didn't have to work outside the home.
Only I come from a family tree where four generations up the line contains women working to earn money- me included. Heck my grandmother, greatgrandmother along with my father would spend many hours each day sewing quilts and clothing to sell for the money they needed and my grandmother would walk close to a mile to work as a seamtress even at the age of 70!
They all worked because financial needs warrented it.
But because society has it ingrained within itself the idea that they didn't have to work well the employers seemed to think they they were only there for a little extra spending money.

en.wikipedia.org...
they even felt justified to lock them in to the workplaces just like they lock the girls in the schools in some arab nations today!

With over 100 years of documented evidence of women working outside the home does this illusion that women were all happy homemakers in the 50's and 60's still persist? It's a fairy tale at best and is being used as a way to portray just how the grass was greener on the other side of the feminist fence! The women were working before feminism came into the picture they just were seen as not worthy of a decent wage! And from my experience I have to say I think they still aren't! Patriarchy in general gives the power to the males only absolute power corrupts absolutely! And when women can't earn a living wage then it only strengthens that power.

Of course now we are seeing the grand finally of this since well the same system that has been put in place to cause women to forget about having equal rights by bribing them with more than many husbands could provide for them has has inadvertantly caused the economy to get so out of control that many men now find themselves with not worthy of a living wage.

Kind of reminds me of a verse in the bible ya know
God will judge you in a like manner as you judge others!
You think it's perfectly reasonable to give the women you work for so little money that she needs to turn to either husband or gov't to make up the difference??? Guess what!!! Now it's perfectly reasonable to expect men to work for that pittence also!!!

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

I often hear from some on this thread how the women of times gone by didn't have to work outside the home.
Only I come from a family tree where four generations up the line contains women working to earn money- me included. Heck my grandmother, greatgrandmother along with my father would spend many hours each day sewing quilts and clothing to sell for the money they needed and my grandmother would walk close to a mile to work as a seamtress even at the age of 70!
They all worked because financial needs warrented it.
But because society has it ingrained within itself the idea that they didn't have to work well the employers seemed to think they they were only there for a little extra spending money.

en.wikipedia.org...
they even felt justified to lock them in to the workplaces just like they lock the girls in the schools in some arab nations today!

With over 100 years of documented evidence of women working outside the home does this illusion that women were all happy homemakers in the 50's and 60's still persist? It's a fairy tale at best and is being used as a way to portray just how the grass was greener on the other side of the feminist fence! The women were working before feminism came into the picture they just were seen as not worthy of a decent wage! And from my experience I have to say I think they still aren't! Patriarchy in general gives the power to the males only absolute power corrupts absolutely! And when women can't earn a living wage then it only strengthens that power.

Of course now we are seeing the grand finally of this since well the same system that has been put in place to cause women to forget about having equal rights by bribing them with more than many husbands could provide for them has has inadvertantly caused the economy to get so out of control that many men now find themselves with not worthy of a living wage.

Kind of reminds me of a verse in the bible ya know
God will judge you in a like manner as you judge others!
You think it's perfectly reasonable to give the women you work for so little money that she needs to turn to either husband or gov't to make up the difference??? Guess what!!! Now it's perfectly reasonable to expect men to work for that pittence also!!!

Men have always worked for a pittance and in many cases side by side. Exploitation occurs when people are selfish and discriminatory. talking about womens rights and mens oppression as if they are two of the same paradigm is pretty dangerous thinking.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa

Men have always worked for a pittance and in many cases side by side. Exploitation occurs when people are selfish and discriminatory. talking about womens rights and mens oppression as if they are two of the same paradigm is pretty dangerous thinking.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Particularly "Exploitation occurs when people (which people) are selfish and discriminatory. Am I to assume you are refering to the capital class here.

Men's oppression - women's rights? They are in the same spectrum - the spectrum of domination of the privledged of those of lower status. Women, particularly those of color, are on the bottom of the dominance pile. White Males (increasingly being replaced by Wealthy Males) are on the top.

To keep thing simple just note this fact:

In nations where women had most liberties, their well-being, and safety highly regarded, are also the nations in the world which rate highly in the satisfaction of their citizens with least issues in violent crime and poverty affecting both sexes.

In nations where women's liberties are more restricted (and less favored than males), and their well-being and safety not given enough attention show the opposite of everything I wrote above.

At every given time, there is higher than 90% of all prison population consisting of males with only 10% females.


Emotions and personal beliefs make no sense of feminism. But facts and statistics does and makes irrefutable cause for feminism.


I am a straight male and lived for long periods in many nations around the world from the progressive western nations, to 3rd world, and in Middle East. I'm a first-hand observer of this phenomenon. You discriminate or neglect abuse of your women, you **** your own country.

a reply to: johndeere2020

I agree with you from what I've read over many years.

But, if you want to convince anyone else, you're gonna need to provide documentation and links.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: johndeere2020

I agree with you from what I've read over many years.

But, if you want to convince anyone else, you're gonna need to provide documentation and links.

My conclusion of nations is my own theory. I have lived at least 6 months straight in a wide variety of cultures around the world, one year on average.

The best countries I've lived in displayed equal liberties of their men and women and the safety and image of women given utmost respects. Not all of these countries are rich so how you treat women seem to make a huge difference the satisfaction (contentment index) of the place. Money isn't everything but how you treat women seem to matter a lot,.

The worse countries I've live in had their women oppressed and worse, violent crimes where they are victims given the same priority as petty crimes. One such country I lived in is rich. This further strengthens my view that money won't make a nation better but it's how it treats women.


It's my conclusion that by how women are treated represents the moral status of a nation. When women are in bad shape, then that country is facing serious moral degradation issues and crime tends to be high and its citizens always in a wary state and satisfaction and contentment is low.


As for prison population in USA, I got it from:

U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
Bureau of Justice Statistics
(Prisoners in 2010)

www.bjs.gov...

In page 2 you will see the population of men vs women is over 10x higher!!

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa
I have over ten years experience working in screen printing shops. I chose not to work anymore for a few reasons..
One- I have a "traditional husband" who well suddenly discovered that if we were to make it financially I would have to work. But, even though I was working he wasn't doing much to pitch in and help around the house and well he kept accusing me of wasting "his money" when I would buy some small low cost thing that I wanted.
Two- I was in too much physical pain and quite frankly was forcing myself to go from the time I got us till the time I went to sleep at night trying to keep up with work and house and home.
And three- Every job I held I found when there was a movement up the chain there was a guy who got it..
And well the guys in general were making one or two more dollars an hour than I was
even if they couldn't do everything that I could
even if they had no experience whatsoever in the screen printing field
even though they would go through a whole order's worth of felt printing it with obvious errors
even if they were out sick more than two times every month

well I was hurt and went over a year running up more in doctor's bills than I earned and quite frankly I didn't see where that was helpful at all
and even hurt I was calling in sick very rarely
had few errors
was answering stupid questions that were asked by those higher earners
heck I even went in when I couldn't walk without a cane for assistance once because one of those high earners decided he wasn't coming in and I knew they needed me!!
and I limped without the cane from banner table to flocker with most of the banners while the guy who was supposed to be helping me was off yacking with buddies. he go promoted I was still printing the banners when I quit!
if I could have found any relief in any of those areas I would probably still be working but no such luck!
I felt that the money I earned was not my own
I felt that they all expected me to keep going till I got so bad I wouldn't be able to take two steps without falling over!
I felt that I was just another piece of disposable junk to be tossed aside when used up!

And yet when I quite I got paid just about all me vacation time and sick days because I was there everyday working!!
And I am the one of a few that can say that! most had used up all their time by then!

I keep hearing the justification that women earn less because well the employers know that if they have kids or might have kids they will start missing more days of work because they will want to be home with the kids
well whats wrong with the men?? don't they want to spend time with those kids also?? I would venture to guess that if a mom is taking too much time off because of family problems then it's because she is earning half of what the father is earning and it only makes financial sense that she be the one taking care of the family problems!!


So well it's a man's world, let the men work their arses off! I am just staying home now taking care of the home the best I can baking goodies for hubby and that kind of stuff. And well at least now when he says I am wasting his money he is probably right but then I usually don't have more than $20 dollars to spend in a month freely so I can't be wasting that much!
Unless I can come across a job that doesn't require much of anything from my feet I will not be having another employer...EVER! I value my ability to walk far more than any low wage job where I am seen as some disposable object.

Feminism follows an old and predictable human social dynamic. A group of oppressed people bands together to fight the oppression, forming a group identity based on their oppression. They are David and they're fighting Goliath. Their cause is noble and just; they are powerless and persecuted.

So they fight and gain the power they seek, but it happens on a timescale as long as, or longer than, a human lifespan, which makes it difficult to realize. Furthermore, their group identity is based on being oppressed. So no matter how much power they gain, they continue to feel powerless. Like a giant, powerful child, the group doesn't realize its power and causes immense harm to those around it without realizing what it's doing - remember, privilege is invisible to those who have it - all while whining about how persecuted it is.

Other examples of this include two prominent religions and two prominent countries, I think you can guess which I mean. Please note that my criticism is limited to the sum total of the effects these groups have on the world and not their individual members; people are people, and all deserve respect and courtesy. I am NOT criticizing countries, religion(s) or women.

The solution is to emphasize our similarities rather than our differences. If we're all "us", there is no " them" to fight against. Feminism did a lot of good, but it has become hateful toward boys and men, and it's time for egalitarianism.

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
I was thinking about the feminist sociology teacher i once had i remember not being impressed by the feminist argument... on reflection i cant figure out if this is due to my ignorance / lack of experience in society, or if feminism is ignorance.

Please help me figure this out. I am a male, but I dont know what i am, a feminist or not a feminist, because i feel i don't have enough experience to judge whether its true or not. And i need more opinions because i feel its a very complicated topic worthy of debate. So please contribute your views.

I need to know what your feminist sociology teacher relayed to you from her research, statistics, women's experiences, etc. and how you understood that information, before I can contribute my views.

Dp

a reply to: InTheLight

It was just that men were in a better situation than women in society, including my generation, i looked around the classroom and i didnt buy it. I still dont buy it, but some things remain true about tje feminist perspective, amd i respect those things, while others dont impress me like the patriarchy thing. I dont feel more proviledged than women as a man, but then im a man, what do i really know....

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa I dont feel more proviledged than women as a man, but then im a man, what do i really know....

In rich, western countries, women seem to live better lives than men, elsewhere, it's a man's world and women live in danger.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

I get a shoulder rub from all the cleaning I've been doing all day and a night on the town for dealing with all the drama that comes from raising the kids.

After all that work only a shoulder rub?....wow...my wife used to request an all over back and leg rub as well...Now the boys have grown up we both need rubs...dealing with raising their adult issues...sigh

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: InTheLight

It was just that men were in a better situation than women in society, including my generation, i looked around the classroom and i didnt buy it. I still dont buy it, but some things remain true about tje feminist perspective, amd i respect those things, while others dont impress me like the patriarchy thing. I dont feel more proviledged than women as a man, but then im a man, what do i really know....

So, you dismiss the studies, statistics and research on this subject, then? Why not start questioning all types of women if you really want to get down to the real truth; do your own research in an unbiased way?

a reply to: InTheLight
That might be a good idea. But i find a lot of women too shallow to talk to about things like that.. I dont like many people period to be honest ... Did you know 1 is 25 people are sociopaths?

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: InTheLight
That might be a good idea. But i find a lot of women too shallow to talk to about things like that.. I dont like many people period to be honest ... Did you know 1 is 25 people are sociopaths?

I try to use my own smarts (call it intuition) when trying to interact and understand people. It takes a while to get to know a person and develop trust, especially in this technological world of online social interactions taking front stage. I endeavour to raise my daughter independent of anyone else, she must depend upon herself for success in all that it before her. I have also armed her with the reality of sociopaths and psychopaths that will come her way and how to identify them. She is certainly guarded, but not closed off. If you put more effort in, in your own special way, where people may decide to disarm, then I think you will get your answers.

a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Are you thinking of right side thinking?

As a male I have come to know feminism as hate and ignorance itself. I have witnessed many women succeed in a struggle for power - and the only reason why they succeeded is because they are attractive. It is the realization that attractive women are given a free ticket in their existence, getting everything they want given to them. This constant being spoiled has given them a superficial attitude. It is this superficial thinking that inspires them to hate man - since man has been on top for so many thousands of years, it is woman's ultimate pleasure to use sex as a manipulation tool for gaining power over men. They use this sex manipulation to work their way up in power. Once they succeed they hurt as many people as they can because it hurts them to even think about righteousness, the act of doing good is the least intention of any attractive woman. So feminism is really the way and divinity of the snake or serpent. Woman have secretly worshipped the reptile for a very long time because it was keen to their nature, adn that is why they love to use sex as a manipulative tactic for controlling and gaining emotional power over men. But it is all in wickedness and the name of evil - there is no good intention from an attractive woman, they are incapable of righteousness and shutter at the thought of doing anything good. This whole time they will admit to being better than man, and the whole time it makes man call them a female dog behind their back and have no respect for them, because they are so delusional they do not understand the reality of spirit but understand the word of a female dog describes them in all of their continuing daily wicked actions. They use everything in the law of attraction and the spiritual realm to show negativity, which is going against nature, bnot for nature. I can take a video camera and tape the amount of daily hate that woman show in society. No woman will ever even give a smile to a man unless they are using sexuality to manipulate him, put simply there is no capacity or will for a new age modern woman who cares about her cellphone more than her own family to do anything in the name of good, or righteousness, and the thought of any good action makes them sick to their stomach.

For the reason of being righteousness for the sake and name of righteousness, woman have seen that in me and have decided to manipulate me as much as they could, which is how I know they come from the serpent. This attempt at making people jealous, it comes from the serpent which is the acting force within all attractive in its attempt at showing man everything in the name of wickedness. This well known action by intelligent men and little known action to the prideful delusional men who get tricked, has everything to do with feminism and nothing to do with right side thinking. Feminism has no purpose in the name of good, a discriminating force for no reason. It is an ego produced delusion of pride which comes from evil, therefore all of it action is towards negativity, in fact they are in pain just from having one simple thought of doing any kind of good in the world, they shutter at the thought of giving for example (giving to someone in need, they will give to someone who is not in need, but to give something meaningful is what they are against). It is ignorance, it is hurt, and it is our soul they hate the most. They want to make clear that they hate people for being people, not for anything that people do. It is the notion in the new world that people do not want you to be in their way. It is left side thinking.

Your reference in nature, right side thinking, and as I said since I am a true right side thinker, it was a direct signal to all attractive women to do whatever they could to manipulate me by the control of sex. A right side thinker is emotion. It is the opposite of pride. It is the opposite of ego. It is not controlling or dominating but submissive. it is never hateful but always good and loving. This is because our left side view is that the same as emotion itself. That is why women take advantage of the emotions of man. The pathetic has come to this as a worldly trait. I am so sorry that gender has chosen to be against gender. It is not right in the name of creation, but it is a direct insult to nature, an act of pride against The Creator, a selfish desire to please the force of evil so be aware what is going to happen when you open the beautiful aspects of human existence - you will be taken advantage of. Just remember my words next time you see a girl look at you with those evil eyes, or when they ignore you like you are not there, even though the law of attraction is making perfectly known to them you are there and their body language acknowledges fine, it is the choice in their minds which cause them to fight and be stubborn with every part of the nature of earth. When success at this attempt of manipulation is made it brings real joy and happiness but the thought of righteousness brings a frown.

originally posted by: greyer
a reply to: funkadeliaaaa

Are you thinking of right side thinking?

As a male I have come to know feminism as hate and ignorance itself. I have witnessed many women succeed in a struggle for power - and the only reason why they succeeded is because they are attractive. It is the realization that attractive women are given a free ticket in their existence, getting everything they want given to them. This constant being spoiled has given them a superficial attitude. It is this superficial thinking that inspires them to hate man - since man has been on top for so many thousands of years, it is woman's ultimate pleasure to use sex as a manipulation tool for gaining power over men. They use this sex manipulation to work their way up in power. Once they succeed they hurt as many people as they can because it hurts them to even think about righteousness, the act of doing good is the least intention of any attractive woman. So feminism is really the way and divinity of the snake or serpent. Woman have secretly worshipped the reptile for a very long time because it was keen to their nature, adn that is why they love to use sex as a manipulative tactic for controlling and gaining emotional power over men. But it is all in wickedness and the name of evil - there is no good intention from an attractive woman, they are incapable of righteousness and shutter at the thought of doing anything good. This whole time they will admit to being better than man, and the whole time it makes man call them a female dog behind their back and have no respect for them, because they are so delusional they do not understand the reality of spirit but understand the word of a female dog describes them in all of their continuing daily wicked actions. They use everything in the law of attraction and the spiritual realm to show negativity, which is going against nature, bnot for nature. I can take a video camera and tape the amount of daily hate that woman show in society. No woman will ever even give a smile to a man unless they are using sexuality to manipulate him, put simply there is no capacity or will for a new age modern woman who cares about her cellphone more than her own family to do anything in the name of good, or righteousness, and the thought of any good action makes them sick to their stomach.

For the reason of being righteousness for the sake and name of righteousness, woman have seen that in me and have decided to manipulate me as much as they could, which is how I know they come from the serpent. This attempt at making people jealous, it comes from the serpent which is the acting force within all attractive in its attempt at showing man everything in the name of wickedness. This well known action by intelligent men and little known action to the prideful delusional men who get tricked, has everything to do with feminism and nothing to do with right side thinking. Feminism has no purpose in the name of good, a discriminating force for no reason. It is an ego produced delusion of pride which comes from evil, therefore all of it action is towards negativity, in fact they are in pain just from having one simple thought of doing any kind of good in the world, they shutter at the thought of giving for example (giving to someone in need, they will give to someone who is not in need, but to give something meaningful is what they are against). It is ignorance, it is hurt, and it is our soul they hate the most. They want to make clear that they hate people for being people, not for anything that people do. It is the notion in the new world that people do not want you to be in their way. It is left side thinking.

Your reference in nature, right side thinking, and as I said since I am a true right side thinker, it was a direct signal to all attractive women to do whatever they could to manipulate me by the control of sex. A right side thinker is emotion. It is the opposite of pride. It is the opposite of ego. It is not controlling or dominating but submissive. it is never hateful but always good and loving. This is because our left side view is that the same as emotion itself. That is why women take advantage of the emotions of man. The pathetic has come to this as a worldly trait. I am so sorry that gender has chosen to be against gender. It is not right in the name of creation, but it is a direct insult to nature, an act of pride against The Creator, a selfish desire to please the force of evil so be aware what is going to happen when you open the beautiful aspects of human existence - you will be taken advantage of. Just remember my words next time you see a girl look at you with those evil eyes, or when they ignore you like you are not there, even though the law of attraction is making perfectly known to them you are there and their body language acknowledges fine, it is the choice in their minds which cause them to fight and be stubborn with every part of the nature of earth. When success at this attempt of manipulation is made it brings real joy and happiness but the thought of righteousness brings a frown.

or maybe the women just got tired of being paid a pittence that the men were, having to hand their earning over to the husband or other male guardian knowing that it would end up going to the local tavern with him coming home late at night drunk! And then because she legally didn't have any control over the money she earned her children went without till the next payday!

Tell me oh dear wise one!
Is it natural for a mother to wish that her children eat?? To do whatever it takes to ensure that they eat?? To have them clothed with a roof over their head? If she had been working in a job for years and learned to run just about every piece of machinery in the place competently and then learned that the new guy they just brought with no experience in the industry was being paid a couple bucks more would it not be natural for her to be a tad bit offended- especially if the reason she is working is to ensure those kids got food, clothes, and a roof over their head??

You want to know how natural it is for a mother to take care of it's young go out in the forest and find a baby cub to cuddle while momma bear watches on! It would defy everything natural within her for her to surrender her power to ensure those kid's survival to a man! Which is what christianity has taught for centuries!!!

originally posted by: greyer
But it is all in wickedness and the name of evil - there is no good intention from an attractive woman, they are incapable of righteousness and shutter at the thought of doing anything good.

Ironically, crime statistics say completely the opposite thing. And white women for example, were the least likely to commit a crime by a very huge margin! I provided links to these statistics in my early reply in this thread.

I too has been rejected by a lot of women but I don't hold any grudges because I know what's at stake with women because women who don't make it to better places in life ends up abused or in prostitution, etc. especially the attractive ones.

You only see women who made it to good places in life, but what about those who don't?? Those ending up in nightclubs, victims of human trafficking, long periods/lifetime of abuse??



Right now, I don't make much in my job. Just about the minimum salary rate. I'm looking for more serious relationships but not having much success due to my salary. But see I'm not bitter and I don't blame women. Why not just improve myself, maybe find a better job someday. Because I don't think I'll feel good to have a partner in life and I can't guarantee her safety and stability in life.

This is simply the way things are and ironically, you have man to blame for that. Our modern society is modeled upon past societies which discriminated and oppressed women and placed great value on material wealth and money - societies that were invented and ruled by men.

What you see as apparent evil by attractive women is the result of evil, men did throughout history to women and to humanity. It is actually a defensive mechanism they have ultimately adapted as a result of this evil. But as I've said earlier, crime statistics tell the truth closer to yours. Attractive women are NOT the evil one.