Homeopathy and energy medicine

a reply to: FyreByrd

Who knows?

Well, I know radiation and chemotherapy saved my life.
I know people who used "wheat grass" at the same time for the same thing aren't here anymore and they really thought that I was a fool.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Except we can empirically measure "action at a distance".

Homeopathy starts with a magical explenation then ends with no efficacy. It's pure quackery.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: qmantoo

I've had really good experiences with homeopathy. Doctors couldn't 'cure' or 'ease' my daughter's horrible croup, nothing would work. At the time I'd never tried it 'cause it sounded silly. I got desparate, did some reading, got remedies and within a few days my three-year old daughter didn't sound like a three-pack-a-day smoker. She is suseptible to laryngitis (same virus?) and when it comes on - she knows what to do right off - and bang it's gone.

Since then, we'd used many remedies with good success.

In Lynn McTaggert's book "The Field" she takes about some studies done in Europe on homeopathic remedys and how they are difficult to quantify because the attitude of the 'successor' is a vital part of the process. I don't have a copy handy (in storage) or I'd quote from the chapter that covers these.

The book is fascinating.

From several "discussions" with homeopaths it's all down to the "skills" of the individual homeopath as to whether a tincture works or not.
That in itself, puts homeopathy firmly into the realm of the supernatural.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: jinni73

The definition of homeopathic medicine seems blurred, like cures symptoms of like can work. By stimulating the bodies fighting ability it can cure disease. Sulfur compounds are very powerful medicines but can also cause problems in certain situations if an enzyme that detoxes sulfites is deficient or reduced. Also, taking these salts can stimulate a person to consume the actual antidote that is needed for detox or trigger many systems in the body to fight disease. I wouldn't actually call that homeopathic though.

I take a multimineral and that is not homeopathic medicine. I have used large doses of vitamins to stimulate the body so I could evaluate what happens. I jumpstarted my niacin metabolism with a weeks worth of high supplement and it corrected the deficiency and the body started taking up niacin again. I only take an occasional supplement of niacin now, maybe a quarter of a capsule every month or two when I feel a little like I need a boost. When I jump started the niacin I wound up using up my B12 and I had to supplement with that for about a week till the levels were up. I take a methylcobalamin about once a week to make sure I do not get low anymore.


There are a couple of things I have found I cannot tollerate, one is high doses of vitamin c and the other is Q10 supplements. According to some information I found from examining my DNA I found I do not break down Q10 well so I can't take a supplement. I researched this knowing I had problems with it so found a test to do in the GWAS catalog to test for metabolizing these sort of things. As far as the vitamin C...I have no clue why it negatively effects me. I don't seem to have nearly as much problem with moderate amounts of absorbic acid in vitamins.

If you have low B12 then that normally points to bad digestive tract as there are various bacteria that make B12 for us not only in our gut but also in our mouths

Have you researched Squalene as well as seaweed. squalene is worth a look as apparently its the first chemical that was made on our planet and the basis of all life if you dry stinging nettles out the nutrients decrease 90% but squalene increases by 4 so you don't have to worry about killing a shark to get your squalene or if you do get shark squalene make sure it has no cod liver oil smell/taste as this is not pure it should be odourless.

And the homeopaths probably lumped cell salts into its category to be able to point to that and say all of their stuff works.

Linus Pauling proved megadose therapy works orthomolecular.org...
and this website www.quackwatch.com... is bagging him when Vitamin c is just hydrogen peroxide and catalase until I find out if there's anything else in it lol

ricky how do you get on with raw honey as this is normally a lot more effective than vit c due to the extra amino acids and enzymes (although you have to get it fresh or the catalase eats the hydrogen peroxide)

People need to really spread out their natural cures in fighting their diseases, just using one thing to cure whatever ailment they have is not smart especially when you have to detox the heavy metals out of you to clear the receptors this is the reason so few pharmaceutical drugs work as when they test them in a lab you have a sterile environment and in the body there are all these heavy metals which stop absorption.

One other thing I've read Vit E needs to be mixed with Vit C as it is needed to regenerate the tocopheral although I don't understand why as I thought the catalase enzyme didn't just stop at eating one free radical I thought they carry on munching on other baddies so i'll find out about this unless someone else knows what is going on with these reactions. jonbarron.org...

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Astyanax
Please. Do you take me for a crackpot?

No, but that's the post I was replying to. My reply was that we aren't some sort of frequency congealed into matter. YOUR remarks are valid, but not in the context of what I was addressing, which was the old saw that every person has some magic resonant frequency that's a product of their 'vibrations' or whatnot.

The sort of thing you used to see on "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" on every other episode. "Quick - emit the frequency of a giant clam!" "Aye, aye admiral! Set the reactor for giant clam, chief!" WEEoooWEEEoooWEEEooo and poof! the clam vanishes. "Yes, XO, every object has a frequency, all you have to do is generate that frequency and it will disintegrate!"

People do have different vibrations 12 of them according to Lahkovsky, the machine he built using teslas workings which had a proven 70% cancer cure rate back in the 30s and 40s when various new York hospitals tested it.

They also cannot reproduce sea water or any natural chemical tis is why synthetic drugs cannot work, many scientists have tried to recreate sea water and it cannot be done there is a missing ingredient which is vibration.
the rockerfellers wouldn't of changed the frequency of the instruments if it didn't have an effect on us and the british army proved that 440hz was the worst frequency for the human body.

originally posted by: jinni73

People do have different vibrations 12 of them according to Lahkovsky, the machine he built using teslas workings which had a proven 70% cancer cure rate back in the 30s and 40s when various new York hospitals tested it.

12 vibrations of what? How did he instrument it? Who reproduced it? You see, it's easy to appeal to mystic vibrations, but unless you can prove they're there, and what's 'vibrating' and how, it's piffle. I can claim there's 12 mystic monkeys in the human body. They're "subtle monkeys", and can't be measured or detected by 'materialistic science'. But by calling on their secret names, you can cure cancer. You have to know exactly how, mind you, and I'll disclose the secret...at my next symposium. Pinky swear. If you pre-register for only 50 bucks, you can save 25%!

They also cannot reproduce sea water or any natural chemical tis is why synthetic drugs cannot work, many scientists have tried to recreate sea water and it cannot be done there is a missing ingredient which is vibration.

Oh, horse crap. What's vibrating? How do you know?

the rockerfellers wouldn't of changed the frequency of the instruments if it didn't have an effect on us and the british army proved that 440hz was the worst frequency for the human body.

Better avoid the note "A" above middle C then.

a reply to: Bedlam
you stay in your own little world and im sure you will be fine.

a reply to: jinni73

I don't have much of a problem with eating some honey, but I am intolerant to sulfonamides if I consume too much. Garlic is also a sulfonamide. Now my mother went crazy on honey and it did something, she was buzzing like a bee then she got a stroke. I warned her a couple weeks before to lay off the honey. She didn't listen and slurped up a couple of tablespoons right in front of me that day. It may give a person energy, but it is a medicine and should not be abused. I make hot totties when we get sick. They work great.

Vitamin C and taurine have similar properties. I have a reduction caused by a mutation that causes less enzyme to break down taurine so I guess that explains why I used to work sixteen hours a day before. I couldn't stand not doing something before. Somehow I managed to boost the breakdown, maybe because of the added sulfur in my diet because I take molybdenum supplements in a mineral pill. Before too much sulfur foods would make me sick or have a headache. The drawback with too much taurine roaming around is that you have to be moving all the time. I don't have that problem so much anymore, but I can go back if I want. It only takes a week off the sulfur foods and multimineral and I start going.

The molybdenum/multimineral pill took care of seventy five percent of my headaches though. I had them from eating sugars, alcohol, sulfites, and milk products. I also got them from popcorn. Drinking a little apple cider vinegar after eating popcorn gets rid of the popcorn headache the next morning. Grapefruit gets rid of my milk headachee, or fresh pineapple. Onion can help too, but then I get a sulfur headache. The molybdenum only does so much though, with the reduction in blood volume and in the enzyme creation, I still need to moderate these foods. I still like not having headaches regularly, now I only get a half dozen or so a year.

I used to take vitamin E, It will give you a mild buzz if you take too much. I do get some in a bigger vitamin pill/mineral pill I take about once a week. I chelate out things regularly, I have a problem with a reduction in the chemistry that turns the kidneys off from peeing out salts. Something to do with a lack of angliotensin 1 or 2 So I have to make sure I get lots of sea salt or other natural minerals in my diet. I call it a lot of salt, but it is still less than one and a half times the RDA. But we rarely eat prepared foods anymore and I don't drink much other than coffee, water, or grapefruit juice.

No-one has yet addressed the point I made about many cultures using energy medicine as their primary or secondary method of treatment.

It is almost as if you (those against energy medicine) are willfully and purposely not discussing the points which pretty much prove that energy medicine works - just because you cannot explain it in terms of your known science. I wonder why you would all do that?

Traditional Chinese Medicine doctors are taught to 'feel' over 10 pulses in the body (I think it is 13) from which they diagnose and subsequently treat their patients. Shamans have been the only source of medicine for a great many cultures throughout history and the British Royal Family have used homeopathic remedies for a long time. The late queen Mother particularly and she managed to last over 90 years old.

Your assertions that energy medicine just does not work any better than placebos are ridiculous given these many cultures which have been using it for generations as their primary method of treatment.

Now... what better arguments do you have to prove your points?

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: Bedlam
you stay in your own little world and im sure you will be fine.

I am! In MY world, things actually work. You're surfing the net on one. In the world of "subtle energy" and the like, NOTHING actually works. Show me a "subtle energy" device that produces an objective, repeatable result. There aren't any that don't involve self-delusion.

originally posted by: qmantoo
No-one has yet addressed the point I made about many cultures using energy medicine as their primary or secondary method of treatment.

It is almost as if you (those against energy medicine) are willfully and purposely not discussing the points which pretty much prove that energy medicine works - just because you cannot explain it in terms of your known science. I wonder why you would all do that?

A group of people that believe something without proof, is not proof that something is true. That's a type of bandwagon fallacy. At one point, many Europeans believed that you could create mice by putting wheat grains into a piece of cloth in a closet. Spontaneous generation was championed by Aristotle, Lucretius, and Pliny, and even in the 16th century was very strongly believed, it wasn't really trounced until Pasteur.

Your assertions that energy medicine just does not work any better than placebos are ridiculous given these many cultures which have been using it for generations as their primary method of treatment.

But it's not ridiculous, considering that test after test show that it has no efficacy. Nor does Reiki, or other forms of "energy healing".

Now... what better arguments do you have to prove your points?

Well, let's see...many studies that show it is pointless, or a bandwagon fallacy. Let me think. Hm...

yes, bedlam, and you still have not addressed the Traditional Chinese medicine issue. Cannot think why possibly because you are not going to tell us that it does not work and that it is bunkum.

If you have been to Europe recently they still sell homeopahic medicines in the pharmacies and doctors prescribe them - at least in Switzerland they do.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: Bedlam
you stay in your own little world and im sure you will be fine.

I am! In MY world, things actually work. You're surfing the net on one. In the world of "subtle energy" and the like, NOTHING actually works. Show me a "subtle energy" device that produces an objective, repeatable result. There aren't any that don't involve self-delusion.

your world is based on nikola tesla agreed?
lahkovsky used teslas works to create the lahkovsky machine and the chief engineer of NASA bought one from brad Paxton even the cancer association backed off, they have tested his machine animals jump straight in it as they know its beneficial unfortunately I have lost the cd which showed a presentation he was doing, not that I know how to load it up on here but maybe I can get another copy and work out how to upload it.

here's Stanford universities study on subtle energies the file is 233 kb
www.scientificexploration.org...

the problem with debating something is that we need to have an open mind and that's what makes it so hard to deal with some people who just want to say it doesn't fit in with what I know

a reply to: rickymouse
caffeine is really bad for the front part of your brain I was talking to someone the other day and he told me about the caffeine crunching up the frontal lobe not really sure as he was talking Australian and I find it a bit difficult to catch what they say sometimes, but here's one report that says caffeine isn't good for epilepsy
www.uni.edu...

originally posted by: jinni73

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: Bedlam
you stay in your own little world and im sure you will be fine.

I am! In MY world, things actually work. You're surfing the net on one. In the world of "subtle energy" and the like, NOTHING actually works. Show me a "subtle energy" device that produces an objective, repeatable result. There aren't any that don't involve self-delusion.

your world is based on nikola tesla agreed?
lahkovsky used teslas works to create the lahkovsky machine and the chief engineer of NASA bought one from brad Paxton even the cancer association backed off they have tested his machine unfortunately I have lost the cd which showed a presentation he was doing, not that I know how to load it up on here but maybe I can get another copy and work out how to upload it.

here's Stanford universities study on subtle energies the file is 233 kb
www.scientificexploration.org...

the problem with debating something is that we need to have an open mind and that's what makes it so hard to deal with some people who just want to say it doesn't fit in with what I know

I encourage people to have an open mind, it's healthy.
But there's a difference between having an open mind and being gullible.

That paper is hypothetical.
That's fine if it's trying to explain how something works.
But since energy "medicine" and homeopathy have NEVER been shown to work in a properly controlled environment, his hypothesis is moot.
Showing how something might work when it doesn't is pointless.

Unless of course, you can show me it does...

originally posted by: qmantoo
yes, bedlam, and you still have not addressed the Traditional Chinese medicine issue. Cannot think why possibly because you are not going to tell us that it does not work and that it is bunkum.

Oh, but I did. Mice. Grains of wheat. Closets.

Mass belief in a treatment doesn't mean that treatment is efficacious.

If you've ever been to China, you'll also find that TCM is used for colds and the occasional bit of sciatica or runny noses, but if you have something major, it's Western all the way.

originally posted by: jinni73

your world is based on nikola tesla agreed?

AC power delivery would be. The rest, not so much.

THAT is rigorous. It has no mystic power to it. It's repeatable, and objective, has a math that is very predictive and consistent and you get that in your second semester as a EE.

lahkovsky used teslas works to create the lahkovsky machine...

Bullpuckey. Every crank invokes Tesla at some point. Isn't it tough claiming that the evil gubmint stole all the notes and burned all the devices, yet everyone from Bearden to Bedini claims to know the inner secrets of Tesla?

the problem with debating something is that we need to have an open mind and that's what makes it so hard to deal with some people who just want to say it doesn't fit in with what I know

I'm happy to try to fit it in. Demonstrate me some subtle energies in a lab setting, where you can get clear, objective results. I'll wait.

eta: You DO know that the Journal of Scientific Exploration is a woo publication, right? They publish pretty much nothing but works on telepathy, ghosts and the like. That's not a publication BY Stanford, it's a paper in a woo journal written by a guy who runs the "Institute for Psychoenergetic Science". Tiller has a lot of good science out on material research, and that gets published in actual scientific journals. But about 1997, he veered off into homeopathy and ESP, and those get published in "alternative journals" but not so much Annalen der Physik.

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: rickymouse
caffeine is really bad for the front part of your brain I was talking to someone the other day and he told me about the caffeine crunching up the frontal lobe not really sure as he was talking Australian and I find it a bit difficult to catch what they say sometimes, but here's one report that says caffeine isn't good for epilepsy
www.uni.edu...

If you look at your link, it states that coffee is a possible trigger. It is a methyl donor. It works faster than some of the betaines and methylcobalamin. Now methyl is needed to properly process folates, and since those who drink coffee often times do not get enough folate, this could be a problem for some. If you drink coffee with eggs for breakfast, the eggs have ample folate. So do some grains but not plain old breads made from bleached flour so much.

Now if you continue stimulating things without processing the caffeine then that can be a problem. Xanthian oxidase is needed for that. It helps to break down the caffeine, and if you have a genetic reduction in this ability, you shouldn't drink a lot of caffeine. Folate is necessary for nerves and the brain, a deficiency in that can occur if it is not ingested. You can't rob peter to pay paul without consequences. A pretty good sourse of the right kind of methyl is actually some types of berries, but I am having problems trying to find exactly which are great sources of it. Another source of methyl in a slower acting form is cooked spinach, I wouldn't recommend too much raw spinach because it is high in oxalates and low in calcium so the oxalates get absorbed and cause kidney issues. The oxalates fall apart with cooking. Beets are another good source of methyls, but then again they need to be cooked because of the oxalates. It seems that the best sources of methyl are also high in oxalates. Also, it seems like somehow high levels of methyl in foods are related to higher level of fluorides in the plant obtained from the soils where they grow. Tea and coffee contain fluorides.

Now, constant consumption of fluorides can cause the brain to shrink, chlorides are necessary and so are sporatic fluorides in plant form in the diet. The organic fluorides stimulate the kidneys and make us pee. Chlorides are needed in transport of toxins from the cells as is sodium. Potassium is needed in the cells.

Now, if you have coffee, eggs, American fries, Limpu Rye toast, and a little bacon for breakfast, that takes care of things. Got to have the bacon, the fat cell walls supply the elastins needed in the coatings of nerves.

But everyone is different to some extent, the sulfur compounds in eggs are not tolerated by some well.

Oh, I forgot to mention something. If you get over methylated, just eat something hot. I mean like hot peppers. The niacin neutralizes the methyl somehow. Potatoes contain nicotinic acid, so does a hot pickled egg or even a taco. There are also hot nuts you can buy or hot beef sticks. I can go on and on with examples. It doesn't work the other way though, you can't neutralize hot peppers with coffee, you need milk for that.

Bedlam -

A group of people that believe something without proof, is not proof that something is true. That's a type of bandwagon fallacy. At one point, many Europeans believed that you could create mice by putting wheat grains into a piece of cloth in a closet. Spontaneous generation was championed by Aristotle, Lucretius, and Pliny, and even in the 16th century was very strongly believed

Mass belief in a treatment doesn't mean that treatment is efficacious.
If you've ever been to China, you'll also find that TCM is used for colds and the occasional bit of sciatica or runny noses, but if you have something major, it's Western all the way.

I have quoted both your comments. If I understand this correctly you are saying that in your opinion the Chinese and their TCM and other cultures which have shamans, witch doctors and the like are all mass believing themselves well just because you do not have the 'proof' you need to pronounce the therapy effective. If that is so, then your pronouncement is extremely arrogant.

You hope that I have never been to China so that you can be so sure...

you'll also find that TCM is used for colds and the occasional bit of sciatica or runny noses, but if you have something major, it's Western all the way.

Unfortunately for you I have been there for nearly 10 years and I know what I am talking about where this is concerned - unlike you it appears.

As I said, they have an effective current system of TCM running and it was even here before western medicine for thousands of years. How do you think they managed without western medicine? See how wrong you are?

There are hospitals and clinics dedicated to TCM and so do you REALLY believe they would have whole hospitals just set up for people with colds and runny noses and a little sciatica? In most hospitals there are separate pharmacies for both TCM and western medicines so it is very much still a method of healing which is practiced today.

Mass belief systems are practiced all over the world and if they were not effective, do you think companies would pour billions into advertising. So, there you are wrong too - Mass belief IS efficacacious because we all buy products advertised on TV and support political parties. These are both examples of mass belief which work.

Why are you arguing so hard for something which is obviously working for millions of people - whether or not you have your proof you so desperately seek? Maybe you are paid by the medical establishment to do this otherwise it seems a little pointless banging your head against a brick wall again and again with this topic.

Energy medicine works and it has been shown to work for thousands of years. No proof - well thats just tough. Live with it. Sometimes the 'proof' of the pudding is in the eating.

a reply to: Bedlam

If you've ever been to China, you'll also find that TCM is used for colds and the occasional bit of sciatica or runny noses, but if you have something major, it's Western all the way.

It's the same all over Asia, except for people in remote areas and some Westernized urban idiots.

And desperate cases — meaning, terminal ones. Who die, of course.