Thoughts on Organized Religion

Organized religions have little to do with faith anymore. For the most part they are money machines. Just look at the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS in assets possessed by the Roman Catholic Church. By some estimations the number exceeds 8 billion dollars. I would think that number is exceedingly low. No institution that has that much money should be tax free!

a reply to: Not Authorized

As it is being recognized on a wider scale, should education be utilized to educate for the future? What are your thoughts on that?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking

I don't know if you're American, or not - but we have a fairly obvious battle going on here between religion and - well - not religion

You said this early on:

How do we solve this, moving forward, without infringing on their rights as outlined in a secular society? Note I said secular, not divine right my religion is better than yours based. Should like minded individuals start to discuss using the education system more directly to remedy this?

I think this is why you've been running into opposition - which like minded individuals are going to decide what - and for who?

Like minded individuals getting together to decide how to steer civilization in the right direction? Well, if it's not right for the religious to decide these things for everyone, why should it be any more right for anyone else?

Education is about sharing knowledge - knowledge is not belief or ideology. How about we just focus on passing along things that we actually know for sure, sharing skills - and teaching people how to think - not what to think?

The rest will sort itself out with time

a reply to: Not Authorized
Well I am going to comment on the catholic church because they seem to hold so much power and influence in our world order. As long as the RC is asset rich in educational institutions of its own it highly unlikely they will ever die out.

Education is the exterminator of false ideas. Are you against education away from false ideas? What happens historically when fiction takes authority over sound thought? See Galileo.

Are you against education?

You see this is actually a major part of the problem because they control large sector of Education as well the thing that melds minds from childhood to the grave. If i think of where I am in Australia its staggering the amount of schools primary, secondary, colleges Universities even like Notre Dame or ACU they own directly plus all the indirect influence and assets &property. RC indirectly controls most of reformed churches now also via way of Ecumenism they have a share in all of them.

An institution like the catholic church is loaded and global influence is bar none. Catholic means Universal so it stands to reason they will be "One World Religion" prophecised by what's left of reformed Christians and Truthers & any others critical of Rome.
Plus any that have been through their institutions have sub conscious loyalty to the pope even lapsed Mics. I ve seen them get upset even usually completely non religious Mics when any one knocks their pope mother mary or other meme crap they venerate.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The thing that you have to realize is that this isn't a process that happens overnight, or even other a generation or two. This is a process that will take a few hundred years. But as more and more people become informed and educated, more and more people will realize the folly of religion.

Religion is not completely about what one believes in the metaphysical question of "Ontology". So in what you predict happening you have forgotten it seems that Religion serves a far more practical purpose of being a moral guide, a charity and community glue for many places and people.
If it was simply the Ontology argument then yes religion would have weakened much quicker however it serves far more social and practical purposes for some than your obviously realise. Also don't forget about governments.
For authoritarians, civil servants, at all levels of governments also Religion can act as a backup plan for the legal system, maintaining reasons for authority. For example all levels of laws courts or some parliaments( congress) get those making testimony to swear on a Bible!.

A balance of education and a 'live and let live' must be reached. People who adhere to organized religions should have the right to believe what they preach but at the same time those people shouldn't be allowed to interfere in the lives of others. Secular law allows for both of these and that's why countries with a religious rule of law are a drag on humanity.

a reply to: 74joff

So what is your point? Are you suggesting that such things couldn't be implemented secularly? Did you know that there are atheists that are banded together and creating churches so that they can have the very things that you just mentioned about religious churches?

a reply to: Jainine

People who adhere to organized religions should have the right to believe what they preach but at the same time those people shouldn't be allowed to interfere in the lives of others.

So... what happens when your religion demands you kill those who do not subscribe to your particular flavor of deity?

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originally posted by: CT_Flyboy
Organized religions have little to do with faith anymore. For the most part they are money machines. Just look at the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS in assets possessed by the Roman Catholic Church. By some estimations the number exceeds 8 billion dollars. I would think that number is exceedingly low. No institution that has that much money should be tax free!

I don't think organized religions ever had much to do with faith. Organizing requires structure and someone to establish and enforce that structure. That involves control over others. That control can take the form of subtle manipulation or financial vampirism or physical or supernatural threats or some combination of the above. It's time to strip the churches of their tax exempt status. Doing so will not interfere with anyone's faith insofar as faith is belief. It will do much to lessen the attraction of religion as the field of choice for con artists and the use of churches as banks for overt domestic political operations and covert international political operations.

As for the latter, one need only follow CIA operations in third world countries to notice the almost invariable presence of evangelical "missionaries" used to convince converts to support the CIA-supported dictator of the hour. Billy Graham allowed his Latin American missionary groups to be infiltrated with CIA agents who set up cell groups to recruit locals under the guise of religion. Once recruited into the "belief" they were manipulated to political ends. This cell group strategy was so effective it's still being used. It's financed with tax free money run through religious organizations.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So what is your point? Are you suggesting that such things couldn't be implemented secularly? Did you know that there are atheists that are banded together and creating churches so that they can have the very things that you just mentioned about religious churches?

Not on any scale that i can see. Is it happening in Australia. I am only interested in my own nek of the woods for things i can observe or notice on day to day basis don't care much for what's happening in the US since I have their entertainment shoved down my throat whether i like it or not.
Why would they need to imitate church structures roles or behaviour haven't you or they ever heard of sports clubs, what about Rotary, Lions or Apex or such frat clubs.

Well to answer more of your question its the Education system and political systems religion has influence over in a huge way as said in my previous major post in this thread. In the west that's the Catholic Church in the middle east Islam. I suggest Education & Politics is where their main power base still resides. By the way what makes you think those in the polity structure of religions are so die hard or pious.
I suggest most simply hide out there like wolves in sheep's carcasses they see religion as the perfect cover for their own power trip, agendas.
After all whether its the RC or a political party seeking it, power is power some are just drunk on it and like it for its own sake!

a reply to: Tangerine

As for the latter, one need only follow CIA operations in third world countries to notice the almost invariable presence of evangelical "missionaries" used to convince converts to support the CIA-supported dictator of the hour. Billy Graham allowed his Latin American missionary groups to be infiltrated with CIA agents who set up cell groups to recruit locals under the guise of religion

Just a slight point of correction.If its somewhere like latin america then it must have been the RCs priests for the most part they are using since they are majority catholic aren't they?
Not saying they wouldn't try evangelicals but why would they in a majority RC continent there would be no impact because most of them are Catholics.
It would be like trying to use Evangelicals in the Middle east.
If you are infact adamant that you are correct with these allegations then please show a hyperlink source to your evidence otherwise you might be a tad misinformed.

originally posted by: 74joff

Not on any scale that i can see. Is it happening in Australia. I am only interested in my own nek of the woods for things i can observe or notice on day to day basis don't care much for what's happening in the US since I have their entertainment shoved down my throat whether i like it or not.
Why would they need to imitate church structures roles or behaviour haven't you or they ever heard of sports clubs, what about Rotary, Lions or Apex or such frat clubs.

I'm just giving examples for people who would be empty without such organizations. I, personally, don't require such institutions and can find my belonging in my friends and family. I wasn't trying to imply they were necessary or needed to be huge. You just said that some people need those things like that is a good reason to keep an archaic belief system around.

Well to answer more of your question its the Education system and political systems religion has influence over in a huge way as said in my previous major post in this thread. In the west that's the Catholic Church in the middle east Islam. I suggest Education & Politics is where their main power base still resides. By the way what makes you think those in the polity structure of religions are so die hard or pious.
I suggest most simply hide out there like wolves in sheep's carcasses they see religion as the perfect cover for their own power trip, agendas.
After all whether its the RC or a political party seeking it, power is power some are just drunk on it and like it for its own sake!

So all of that excuses religion trying to hinder science and knowledge? If something can be proven to be wrong, then it should be believed as such. Why insist on denying the obvious? Just because the institution has existed forever? That's an appeal to tradition fallacy.

originally posted by: 74joff
a reply to: Tangerine

As for the latter, one need only follow CIA operations in third world countries to notice the almost invariable presence of evangelical "missionaries" used to convince converts to support the CIA-supported dictator of the hour. Billy Graham allowed his Latin American missionary groups to be infiltrated with CIA agents who set up cell groups to recruit locals under the guise of religion

Just a slight point of correction.If its somewhere like latin america then it must have been the RCs priests for the most part they are using since they are majority catholic aren't they?
Not saying they wouldn't try evangelicals but why would they in a majority RC continent there would be no impact because most of them are Catholics.
It would be like trying to use Evangelicals in the Middle east.
If you are infact adamant that you are correct with these allegations then please show a hyperlink source to your evidence otherwise you might be a tad misinformed.

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Sara Diamond

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The Prince of War: Billy Graham’s Crusade for a Wholly Christian Empire
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

So all of that excuses religion trying to hinder science and knowledge? If something can be proven to be wrong, then it should be believed as such. Why insist on denying the obvious? Just because the institution has existed forever? That's an appeal to tradition fallacy.

Making huge sweeping generalisations about all religion this is misinformed.
RC for one has long history for embracing science and education as i have already commented, the Jesuits whom actually run the Vatican anyway think its fine.
If you are going to make such sweeping claims then you need to be more specific about which religion and which sects or traditions you take major issue with, otherwise you just look stupid!
By the way I am not making excuses for RC I am vehemently anti RC cant stand them. However you need to make your sentiments more targeted.

BTW where has OP unauthorised gone he/she is strangely absent did just start a hit and run thread with no plans of returning?

a reply to: Tangerine

So...Ok what was the point of doing that in Sth America?
Do you have any numbers for the Reformed denominations in Sth American nations.

Still don't see the point if they are a small minority there.

a reply to: 74joff

Nope. I'm ignoring frauds defending known mythology. Why waste my time? Is Tyre suddenly no longer in existence? It is still there.

I asked for ideas, and many on this thread did not disappoint. I thank them. New rocks have been uncovered.

Don't worry. I still Love the person, just dislike the sin, er, organized mythology.

Respectfully,

a reply to: Not Authorized

I am looking for a bit of advice from our agnostic and atheist members. Recently, I've been thinking about the generalized acceptance of humanities organized religions. I'm finding myself seriously wondering if society as a whole, can continue to accept how we currently handle them and, well, survive.

Btw sorry i should have read this more thoroughly will you accept advice or opinions from a Gnostic. I am one of those however i still believe in God, The One, Monad!

Nope. I'm ignoring frauds defending known mythology. Why waste my time? Is Tyre suddenly no longer in existence?

Oh I see so I am fraud! And YOU we have yet to establish exactly what you are about?? Is this thread really about organised religion as you claim or do you wish to control what one believes in their Heart & Mind in which case your thread title is wrong!

a reply to: 74joff

Of course. I'll listen and respond if the idea piques my interest, and ask for more. It is how we learn things.

I will not respond to obvious proselytizing. Nor, if I suspect posts are following a certain template.

Others I just agree with, and star.

a reply to: 74joff

You asked where I went. I do work for a living. I answered why, as my time is limited.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Lead on Voltaire you have the floor!

a reply to: 74joff

Thanks, but I thought you wanted to share Gnosticism and said viewpoint? I would be interested on how a Gnostic views organized religion, secularism, and education.