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originally posted by: ANNED
I am a Deist.
We believe in god but reject organized religions.
en.wikipedia.org...
Deist Principles
You shall honor and worship the Creator in a fashion that suits you
You shall treat others with dignity and respect and you shall insist that others respect your dignity as well
You shall live life pragmatically and use Reason as the cornerstone for all you think, say and do
You shall be honest and not lie, cheat or steal
You shall not harm another unless it is in defense of yourself or loved ones
You shall treat others as you want to be treated
You shall take responsibility for your actions
You shall have faith in yourself
You shall honor and be faithful to your Father, your Mother and your Loved ones
You shall learn from the mistakes that you will make
You shall find awe, inspiration and beauty in the creation and the natural order of the universe
You shall search for truth and be willing to accept new ideas based on reason as you are exposed to them
This is why I like *freedom* and an open market of ideas. If you believe that people are able to recognize the truth when it is presented to them, then you don't need to shove it down their throats...just maintain freedom of speech and of the press and the truth eventually will win out.
originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Metallicus
You couldn't be further from the truth. Hence, stressing not violating rights. No one is calling for extermination of anything.
However, false ideas, are well, false. How would you react if someone came up to you, and told you the Earth is flat? You'd laugh, right? Why? Education. You know better. You might share it years later as an amusing anecdote.
This is true about everything in life.
Education is the exterminator of false ideas. Are you against education away from false ideas? What happens historically when fiction takes authority over sound thought? See Galileo.
Are you against education?
At what point does respecting the right of others to believe whatever they choose become tolerance of ignorance?
Why are you attempting red herrings?
I question your motives.
originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: WakeUpBeer
At what point does respecting the right of others to believe whatever they choose become tolerance of ignorance?
Ignorance, too, must be tolerated. What are you planning to do, force people into concentration camps to 'educate' them?
originally posted by: theatreboy
a reply to: pheonix358
First, very well written reply..
Second, i am i consider myself a gnostic christian..
Thirdly, i have to say, those that are against organized religion usually..(not always)..use science as proof that those who are religious as ignorant.
A. Religion is dogma...it is a way for people to control those who do not think for themselves. Spirituality is people search and find the answers for themselves, and only use the teachings of others as a guide for their spirtual walk.
B. Science and the Bible, (Torah, Quran, other religious books) can coexist. Science is the study of the mind of God. I believe it was paul who said milk is for babes, meat is for the men. When you study holy texts deeply beyond the morality, you can see what scientists are starting to discover.
Sorry this is a bit disjointed, i am replying from the hospital on morphine for kidney stones..
originally posted by: michaelbrux
I think billions (i'm not one) of human beings consider them to be the primary social institution in their lives. from births, dating and marriage, until death across generations they play a role of immense importance to their adherents and their sudden (within this lifetime) disappearance would create a vacuum so large that the people with day to day responsibilities managing society would hang the people that destroyed those institutions.
i'm aware that the church enjoy's committing many crimes against non-members, there is a huge kidnapping operation in lake county illinois where a system of 16 church's allow their facilities to be used as a base of operation.
knowing what churchs are capable of and educating non-members is what's important...not wasting ones time convincing a fanatic that what they are doing is criminal.
originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Not Authorized
Why are you attempting red herrings?
What kind of a world would it be if people didn't tolerate ignorance? That was my question for the poster I replied to.
All the knowledge-giving media and educational classes in the world aren't going to eradicate ignorance, because (1) many people will not listen and (2) many who do listen, even briefly, will reject the authorities who provide the educational content. Don't we see this every day on ATS?
If I won't tolerate ignorance, then I will be obliged to force people to absorb and accept the facts of which they are ignorant. There isn't any other way. Spread the propaganda blanket wide, tuck it in nice and tight. Command the heights of the media. Round up recalcitrants and send them to 'education camps'. In the end, I should have to mobilize the whole apparatus of totalitarianism to carry out my programme — and even then, I shall not succeed.
When we speak of 'totalitarianism', we refer to governments that seek to monopolize public discourse, to occupy not just the physical state but the mental country inhabited by its citizens. I know that is not what you believe you intend, but that, I'm afraid, would be the outcome of it.
Besides, who are you to decide what constitutes fact? You may not consider it a fact that God gave Muhhamad a set of rules and prescriptions for mankind to live by, but over a billion people around the world consider this to be a fact beyond question. You may not consider it a fact that Jesus died for the sins of the world, or that he even lived in the first place, but further billions regard these statements as incontestable. I happen to agree with you that they are probably all false, but nobody knows for sure. I don't, and neither do you. So much for the facts.
I question your motives.
And I question your foresight.
originally posted by: Astyanax
I happen to agree with you that they are probably all false, but nobody knows for sure. I don't, and neither do you. So much for the facts.
originally posted by: michaelbrux
a reply to: Tangerine
I assumed that the question of organized religion included places outside of the United States ... considering that the Americas are not the source of any major global religion (except basketball and baseball), i didn't focus on the west but the impact that destroying Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and Islam...would have on their adherents in the lands of their origins.
perhaps you are right that organized religion plays a role in the lives of its members not much different than a big box retailer such as Walmart...
I know the problem a few religions present for the civilized world and was reminded yet again of that threat shortly after posting...nevertheless, being a victim is the greatest weapon of organized religion and most of their activities seem to be about provoking people against them. I wouldn't want my state with that type of blood on its hands and wouldn't do anything about them.
freedom of religion is Guaranteed by the US Constitution and I don't want my Constitution changed by social extremists to attack religious extremists.
that's why my thoughts about them is to back away slowly and take the long way around whenever I encounter fanatics of all flavors.
I'll give you that. But when claim after claim after claim about their religion can be shown to be false, illogical, or highly unlikely, do we really want to cling to "well we don't know for sure" straws?