Graphic Video Released in “Firing Squad” Style Police Killing of Milton Hall

a reply to: Sremmos80

Within 21 feet even if your extremely well trained with a firearm someone with only minimal training/drive with a knife has the advantage.

I thought my CPL instructor was high when he explained that but its actually called "the tueller drill" and there's lots of videos of people proving it.


With that said.... This situation has a little background that's getting glossed over. This guy was a regular around town with the police and they had run ins both positive and negative with him many times in the past. It's unclear to me what the immediate reaction to prepare for a negative contact was caused by but I've heard a couple different stories, lots of threats involved basically.

Lessons learned... Sh!t talking carries a lot more weight if your weilding a knife.

a reply to: Another_Nut

I think we all need to take a step back and look at this reasonably. The guy was clearly a threat to the police and the public.

i think you all know my thoughts about police

Yes, based on the website you are pulling the article from, it is quite clear what your views are on the police.

this man was executed.its disturbing and sick

He was not executed. He was clearly a danger based on the fact he was carrying a knife, obviously mentally disturbed and maintained a threatening stance while threatening the officers.

a reply to: RayVon

Gun'S don't kill people....Idiot DO!!

Knives kill people...period.

And only a crazy guy brings a knife to a gun fight.

a reply to: butcherguy

No. If someone is 600 yards away with a knife and I KNOW his intentions are to try and take someone's/my life I'm allowed to end that persons life in defense of the others. Any CPL holder is allowed to defend themselves or others in this manner...

Now, how you know from 600 yards away that someone is about to kill someone else and how you make that shot with a pistol IDK... But if you had proof and WERE SURE it was a time for self defense... You would be legally in the right.



SNARKY412

K9's are a little more then a weapon.. That's like saying: "hey Ralph you know jujitsu so you shouldn't carry a gun so you can handle perps that have knives...."

And tasers are meant for people who don't have weapons. It's "less then lethal" in this situation to get within taser range would of been very risky and deadly to the officers. When you wield a knife you are weilding a "deadly weapon" and deadly force is usually necessary to combat against deadly weapons.

I use to visit relatives up in the thumb all the time. I hated driving through Bay City and Saginaw, because you get on these stupid one ways with quick turns and if you don't really pay attention to the signs, you get lost in some really nasty, poor neighborhoods. Bay City, Saginaw, Midland, and Flint have all been infected by Detroit and have the same disease of poverty, blight, and political corruption.

I'm sure that the police have had to deal with a lot of unsavory characters in those neighborhoods and get pretty heavy handed with the residents.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

For Milton, may he RIP, another innocent person murdered at the hands of state-sanctioned terrorist thugs.

All of Milton's actions were far from innocent.

This is why the police were called in the first place.

Police responded to a call from a woman at a nearby mini mart before the shooting. She complained that the Hall was rude and aggressive, and had refused to pay for a coffee and other items. She also said Hall spit on someone inside the store.

CNN
Conveniently, the first article, from a completely biased source, left this part out.

When the police respond to a call like this, it does not necessarily warrant an aggressive response. But, when the police arrive and the guy is now threatening them with a knife, it warrants an appropriate response.

A knife is lethal force. Use of non-lethal means, by the police, is optional. If it is used and works, great. If the decision is made not to use it then so be it. That decision, in a case like this, cannot be second guessed by someone who was not there. The decision can be reviewed, which it was and found to be within the laws of the State of Michigan, but not second guessed.

a reply to: bringmecoffee

As a cop, I try to look at these stories with the perspective of one. Violence is ugly but sometimes it is necessary, but should be used as a last resort. In this case, it looked to me like they were just waiting for any excuse to light that poor guy up. A knife is a lot more dangerous than most people realize, and the safe reactionary gap is big, but this is just ugly.

I welcome your argument.

Please elaborate so we can have an educated discussion.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Jesus. That IS a firing squad.

They need to start putting these people in prison.

WTF?!

Why are they not in prison? They almost WANT a month long nationwide riot against police.

originally posted by: bringmecoffee
a reply to: Another_Nut

As a cop, I try to look at these stories with the perspective of one. Violence is ugly but sometimes it is necessary, but should be used as a last resort. In this case, it looked to me like they were just waiting for any excuse to light that poor guy up. A knife is a lot more dangerous than most people realize, and the safe reactionary gap is big, but this is just ugly.

I'm glad you point out the part about knives being more dangerous than most realize. My Krav Maga instructor is an expert with knives, and he carries a small karambit aroung his neck all the time. The size of the knife isn't the issue, but the possible danger that it poses is. A gun can kill in one direction only at any given time, and even then, not every time the trigger is pulled (as is evident by the terrible hit ratio by these LEOs). A knife will cut or stab you nearly every time it touches your skin during a confrontation.

But that point aside, I must agree that this was downright horrendous action by these officers, and every one of them--assuming they all fired--should be held accountable.

a reply to: mindseye1609

No. If someone is 600 yards away with a knife and I KNOW his intentions are to try and take someone's/my life I'm allowed to end that persons life in defense of the others. Any CPL holder is allowed to defend themselves or others in this manner...

I have been armed (concealed carry, .40 S&W) and in within arms reach of a person with a knife that was threatening me.
I did not shoot them. My weapon was never even exposed, much less drawn.

My question for you is this: Was this a 'good' shooting by the officers present?

a reply to: Britguy

Simple execution!

Well, executions usually don't involve people who are armed with a weapon themselves. They opened fire because the guy appeared to take a few steps towards them while holding the knife in a threatening manner. Anyone can see that in the video.

Turning up mob handed, with an attack dog, guns drawn sure isn't going to diffuse the situation or calm the individual.

Mob handed? If I have to deal with a guy with a knife, I would want as many people there to help as I could have.

The police dog is a less than lethal means to apprehend someone. The decision not to release the dog can be second guessed, but there are reasons that decision was made. The main reason being the guy was armed with a knife and you would have been sending the dog into certain death or serious injury. They would have released the dog, he would have begun stabbing said dog and then they would have shot him anyway. I for one am against sacrificing the life of the police dog just to see the same result.

A single guy approaching and calmly talking, with others to back up if necessary, but out of sight would be preferable, but I get the impression a lot of these steroid addled cops just like to inflict harm.

A single guy, approaching a guy armed with a knife with his backup out of sight, is inviting disaster and putting the single guy in unreasonable danger. If the other cops are out of sight then that means they cannot respond reasonably quick enough if the guy charges the first cop.

In fact, they are coming on an almost daily basis and the US long ago was scratched from my holiday destination list as a result. It seems the cops are free to vent their roid rage at will, with any investigation carried out by colleagues, whilst on a paid vacation.

Well, this incident happened over two years ago and has just been brought back to the forefront of the "media" because the video was released. So, I think we need to take a step back and rethink the notion that this is happening every day.

Second, the incident was investigated and reviewed by numerous different agencies. It sounds like the state police, a separate entity, investigated the incident and gathered the evidence. The State's Attorney's Office then reviewed the evidence to see if any laws were broken. Then the Justice Department reviewed the evidence to see if any Civil Rights were violated.

Every single entity found no laws were broken and the police were justified to shoot the man. What more do you want? What will satisfy you personally?

a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

11 shots on target out of 47? i'm not sure i would want these guys protecting me in case of danger.

At that distance, on a moving target, under stressful conditions and armed with handguns? Doesn't seem unreasonable.

You can all sleep well knowing that they are out there, protecting you from absolutely nothing, and executing harmless men in the middle of the street.

The guy was far from harmless. Did you read the article? Did you know he was armed with a knife? Be honest.

a reply to: butcherguy

If any common citizen shot a man at that distance when the man only had a knife... the common citizen would be charged with murder.
How can anyone say that any of those cops feared for their safety at the point that they started shooting???

You are speculating.

I would say if a person, who was armed with their concealed carry, was confronted with that situation, they would probably be required to retreat from the situation first before engaging the guy.

The police do not retreat from situations such as this. They are required to deal with the situation.

But, if a person who was legally armed with their concealed carry was confronted with a situation where a person armed with a knife was approaching them, holding the knife in a threatening matter and threatening to harm them, they would be totally justified in shooting said person.

a reply to: Another_Nut

That is definitely an execution. Unless the law has changed, that is a clear case of murder. All the cops who opened fire should be charged accordingly.

a reply to: areyouserious2010

No taser? No beanbag rounds? They went directly to lethal force. It is murder, sorry.

a reply to: areyouserious2010
Do you think that they all had to shoot?

Do you think that the majority of the rounds fired were fired after the man was no longer standing?

Was he a threat after he was lying on the ground?

Watch the video and then answer the questions, no speculation involved in it then.

It get why they had to fire 47 rounds... I think. It is because they are very poor marksmen. I practice at 21 feet sometimes. When you shoot bowling pins with a handgun at 50 yards, it makes 21 feet seem easy. I practice with moving targets too.

a reply to: mindseye1609

I think you need to go over the 21 foot rule again with your instructor. It only applies to a guy with a holstered gun. If the gun is already out and aiming at the person the 21 foot rule does not apply because it is irrelevant.

This was plain police incompetence. They wanted to light the guy up. Also, good question by other posters where was the tazer in this case.

Also to note. Look how nervous and shifty those cops were. They had zero confidence in their abilities. And missing 2/3 of their shots or more proves they were incompetent. Why whenever I go to the gun range it's always the off duty cop that misses everything and the least competent with their firearm including often gun safety. Why am I getting hit by your 1911's shrapnel two lanes over? Oh thats right because your dumb ass set up steel targets ten feet out to shoot at. Who does that other than an idiot?

a reply to: butcherguy

If I were to go outside a fire a shot into the ground, I could be arrested for several crimes, such as shooting inside the borough lines.

Depending on local and state laws, you may be correct. But many areas allow for safe target practice on your own property as long as you are outside of a metropolitan area.

These cops fired nearly a boxful of ammo in a shopping center... in a bad shoot. No regard for public safety there.

Well, it was determined a good shoot. And you can see in the video that the backdrop is clear.

a reply to: areyouserious2010
Now who is speculating?

And you can see in the video that the backdrop is clear.

Mind telling me how you can tell there isn't a driver in those trucks directly behind the victim?

Only in America....

Why did they all have to shoot him at all?

Get a riot shield and rush him
Tranq the guy
Fire rubber bullets
Water Canon
Go at him with batons while dressed in riot gear...

Even if they had a hard-on for shooting, here's a ****ing idea.... SHOOT TO MAIM!!!! You know, the legs, arms.... not 46 frickin' times and even when he's dead on the floor.

FFS


There are so many ways to have dealt with this and the absolutely ONLY one that should NEVER have happened, is the one that actually did happen.

Just pathetic