Mind is the Only Constant of All Existence

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Korg Trinity


Sure..

It means that matter and energy was present before there was a mind to contemplate it's meaning.

A bit like... the time that existed before you were born....

It's simple really.

Korg.

Time is a construct of mind.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with this.

Time is a dimension of our universe and is intrinsically linked to space. This is why we describe the construct of the universe as Space-time.

To suggest that time did not exist before a conscious observer is just wrong.

Korg.

a reply to: spy66
Is the universe ever 'formed'? Apparent existence (physical properties) is constantly changing configuration - I agree that there is nothing other here that has not always existed - IT just looks different constantly.
What IT is is not a thing - IT is everything so cannot be two.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: spy66
Is the universe ever 'formed'? Apparent existence (physical properties) is constantly changing configuration - I agree that there is nothing other here that has not always existed - IIT just looks different constantly
What IT is is not a thing - IT is everything so cannot be two.

You say your self that existence looks different constantly. That is the physical difference between Our existence and the one before it.

As soon as Our universe was formed it started to change in a differen way than the one before it. Because the physical Properties of Our existence are different.

a reply to: Korg Trinity
Try looking at it this way - what if you realized that there is only the present with ever changing scenery? You are the present, which is constant, and all the scenery of life appears in/on/as you.

Just because the scenery is constantly appearing different does not mean 'that' which the scene changes on ever goes away.

Can any picture appear on a television without there being a screen present?
When the screen is full of the moving image the screen is forgotten - the screen is empty before the picture appears but it has to BE prior to any thing.

a reply to: spy66
You are the universe and you have always been but you do not exist in time or space. Time and space 'appear' to exist in you.
There was no before you!
In you, as you existence appears to exist - you are the source of this manifestation - this right here.
Here and now is all you can know but here and now can appear as 'thought about other' - 'other' does not appear to exist except in a dream of separation - where is 'before'? 'Before' is an idea arising presently in you as you - nothing can appear without your presence.

What Korg says makes sense.

Itisnowagain I feel like you are adding more opinion and conjecture, without even really making sense.

I don't know just my take.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: Korg Trinity

Let me ask you the same question...

Prove there was a mind before existence....

Now tell me what the word 'existence' means without a mind to define it and give it meaning

Sure..

It means that matter and energy was present before there was a mind to contemplate it's meaning.

A bit like... the time that existed before you were born....

It's simple really.

Korg.

Simple really? Yes and reality is very simple - and at one time the Sun revolved around the Earth, everyone knew this and accepted it as fact - And the atom could not be split - simple reality! And relativity and quantum mechanics were sci-fi fantasies - how simple reality is isn't it? Some modern day physicists are accepting that we are part of the equation and our observations of reality are affected by who is observing them - What I'm doing is carrying this concept one step futher and stating thet the equations and observation of reality are meaningless without an existent overriding mind - the mind has to be there or there is no observations, equations and no reality. That said, and if you would accept that concept [which apparently you don't] it would logically follow that all concepts of reality and reality itself, require mind - I do not know how one can separate reality form the mind[s] defining it. So you say machines can measure energy, etc. - but even these machines are set up to measure constructs of a human mind's conceived, and probably limited, reality - So in the micro and macro sense you still can not separate reality from mind. Mind is still the one constant that must be present. The existence of a separate reality that exists outside of mind can not be proven. Physicists and mathematicians base their theories on an independent mindless reality - but the moment they start to look at reality it is no longer mindless - What does a mindless observational reality really look like? I say you will never know as it does not exist - and have no reason to believe it ever existed or will ever exist. Mind remains the one single overriding factor in all views of reality.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Korg Trinity
Try looking at it this way - what if you realized that there is only the present with ever changing scenery? You are the present, which is constant, and all the scenery of life appears in/on/as you.

Just because the scenery is constantly appearing different does not mean 'that' which the scene changes on ever goes away.

Can any picture appear on a television without there being a screen present?
When the screen is full of the moving image the screen is forgotten - the screen is empty before the picture appears but it has to BE prior to any thing.

What you have to understand is that time is a dimension. Very much like any of the spacial dimensions. An object in four dimensional space exists at a point in time at a specific place within the three special dimensions. The vector of that object is in a forward direction. This is called the Arrow of Time.



We know that the Arrow of time is not caused by humans or by a conscious mind, because we have been able to view back to just a few million years after the big bang and calculate to a fraction of a second after the big bang. Which I might add was before there was the possibility of sentient conscious lifeforms.

We have observed the acceleration of the universe and although we do not yet fully understand the reasoning behind it's acceleration, we have however narrowed it down to several distinct possibilities, such as Vacuum energy or Dark Energy.

So although it is very difficult for someone to explain time, it is perfectly accepted both in theory and in practice that time exists as a fundamental aspect of the universe.

If there was no time, there could be no space.

Do you follow?

Korg.

originally posted by: nrd101
What Korg says makes sense.

Itisnowagain I feel like you are adding more opinion and conjecture, without even really making sense.

What can be known without sense? Is there anything but sensation? The mind makes 'material things' by wording. See a chair, feel a chair but can a chair exist by itself? Is a 'chair' not made of sensing?
This will no doubt not make any 'sense' because the mind likes to 'make sense' by understanding. Understanding is done with the mind but sensation is sense, smelling, seeing, hearing all happen without understanding.

a reply to: Korg Trinity
Can you show me an object that is not here now?
'Objects' can only be seen now.

How can you be so sure there is anything outside now?

originally posted by: Korg Trinity


If there was no time, there could be no space.

Correct. No time, no space.
Just timeless being.

originally posted by: AlienView

What does a mindless observational reality really look like? I say you will nevr know as it does not exist - and have no reason to believe it ever existed or will ever exist. Mind remains the one single overriding factor in all views of realtiy.

Isn't a mindless observational reality where we come from as a baby? In fact I have these memories..everyone has them they are from before your mind is developed, mindless observation, much like any animal or life form besides a human.

Isn't reality the perceptions of the mind so how can it ever be mindless?

Mind is the one single factor because reality is a construct of the human mind, it doesn't override reality. Mind IS reality.

I think therefore I am.

Cogito ergo sum. Cogito ergo sum[a] (/ˈkoʊɡɨtoʊ ˈɜrɡoʊ ˈsʊm/, also /ˈkɒɡɨtoʊ/, /ˈsʌm/; Classical Latin: [ˈkoːɡitoː ˈɛrɡoː ˈsʊm], "I think, therefore I am", or better "I am thinking, therefore I exist") is a philosophical proposition by René Descartes.

My mind hurts.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

We know that the Arrow of time is not caused by humans or by a conscious mind, because we have been able to calculate back to just a few million years after the big bang. Which I might add was before there was the possibility of sentient conscious lifeforms.

And just who did and made these calculations? - An independent non-human and mindless calculator? I don't think so - And yet what you are saying is you can calculate a world that existed without mind while at same time calculating it and defining it while using your mind to do it. It is interesting though how you can calculate mindlessness while using your mind to do it.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Korg Trinity
Can you show me an object that is not here now?
'Objects' can only be seen now.

How can you be so sure there is anything outside now?

Sure I can.

And so can you... looking at the moon or the stars and you are seeing objects that existed in the past.. not the present.

What about this as an extreme case.... The galaxies here exited as you see them 13 billion years ago....



Korg.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Korg Trinity


If there was no time, there could be no space.

Correct. No time, no space.
Just timeless being.

Really? How much volume in ml is there in a litre?

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

If there was no time, there could be no space.

I want to ask you a question regarding what you mention abowe.

- Would you accept a time that is a absolute constant? A Space time that is never changing.

Would you agree that changes in matter only occure With in such a Space time?

a reply to: AlienView

Here's my take, mind cannot be proven, reality on the other hand can be proven as it continues to exist no matter what you think about it. What you think of it can be right, wrong or some gray shade in between, yet reality doesn't give a jack's **s about what you think it is or is not.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: spy66
You are the universe and you have always been but you do not exist in time or space. Time and space 'appear' to exist in you.
There was no before you!
In you, as you existence appears to exist - you are the source of this manifestation - this right here.
Here and now is all you can know but here and now can appear as 'thought about other' - 'other' does not appear to exist except in a dream of separation - where is 'before'? 'Before' is an idea arising presently in you as you - nothing can appear without your presence.

Yes i know. I am the observer

originally posted by: Korg Trinity


And so can you... looking at the moon or the stars and you are seeing objects that existed in the past.. not the present.

Please tell me when the moon is being seen?
Can the moon or a picture of the galaxy be seen any other time but now?