Excursions in the 14 C record at A.D. 774 – 775 in tree rings from Russia and America

This is an interesting piece of research which claims at one point: lf. The exact cause of the event is unclear, although a number of mechanisms have been proposed, all of which require an extraterrestrial origin*

Abstract The calibration of radiocarbon dates by means of a master calibration curve has been invaluable to Earth, environmental and archeological sciences, but the fundamental reason for calibration is that atmospheric radiocarbon content varies because of changes in upper atmosphere production and global carbon cycling. Improved instrumentation has contributed to high-resolution (interannual) radiocarbon activity measurements, which have revealed sudden and anomalous activity shifts previously not observed at the common resolution of 5 – 10years of most of the calibration scale. One such spike has been recently reported from tree rings from Japan and then again in Europe at A.D. 774 – 775, for which we report here our efforts to both replicate its existence and determine its spatial extent using tree rings from larch at high latitude (northern Siberia) and bristlecone pine from lower latitude (the White Mountains of California). Our results con fi rm an abrupt ~15 ‰ 14 C activity increase from A.D. 774 to 776, the size and now the hemispheric extent of which suggest that an extraterrestrial in fl uence on radiocarbon production is most likely responsible

The report

5. Conclusions We have con fi rmed the A.D. 774 – 775 event in the 14 C record at two additional locations, in the western United States and Russia. The amplitude of the event is very similar to previously reported results from Japan, Germany, and New Zealand. This emphasizes the global nature of this phenomenon and according to existing models, only a production-rate change could cause this type of event. The fact that the 14 C signal is observed in fi ve very different locations with exactly the same amplitude is remarkable in itself. The exact cause of the event is unclear, although a number of mechanisms have been proposed, all of which require an extraterrestrial origin. It appears then that the A.D. 774 – 775 event is the fi rst unambiguous case of extraterrestrial enhancement of atmospheric 14 C in the tree-ring record. More detailed work on annual samples from dendrochronologically dated wood may identify further examples of these excursions both
spatially and temporally

*sorry folks not ET but our sun is the culprit

a reply to: Hanslune
At least they are trying to figure out what caused the event.. Everything from cosmic rays, Comets, M-class flares from sole all seem to be plausible. Interesting S^F

veral authors have proposed different solar particle
fluxes necessary to produce the effects discussed. Since the
flux of solar particles is dependent on the energy spectrum of the event, there can be some
variability in these estimates. We therefore standardize these reports for a flux E>30MeV [Reedy, 1996]. Miyake
[2014] has revised their original estimate for the proposed solar proton event total fluence (E>30MeV) necessary to produce the A.D. 774–775 14C effect to 5 × 10 10p/cm2

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: Hanslune
At least they are trying to figure out what caused the event.. Everything from cosmic rays, Comets, M-class flares from sole all seem to be plausible. Interesting S^F

veral authors have proposed different solar particle
fluxes necessary to produce the effects discussed. Since the
flux of solar particles is dependent on the energy spectrum of the event, there can be some
variability in these estimates. We therefore standardize these reports for a flux E>30MeV [Reedy, 1996]. Miyake
[2014] has revised their original estimate for the proposed solar proton event total fluence (E>30MeV) necessary to produce the A.D. 774–775 14C effect to 5 × 10 10p/cm2

Yes quite interesting

Another report laying the blame on a comet

A large and sudden increase in radiocarbon (14C) around AD 773 are documented in coral skeletons from the South China Sea. The 14C increased by ~ 15‰ during winter, and remain elevated for more than 4 months, then increased and dropped down within two months, forming a spike of 45‰ high in late spring, followed by two smaller spikes. The 14C anomalies coincide with an historic comet collision with the Earth's atmosphere on 17 January AD 773. Comas are known to have percent-levels of nitrogen by weight, and are exposed to cosmic radiation in space. Hence they may be expected to contain highly elevated 14C/12C ratios, as compared to the Earth's atmosphere. The significant input of 14C by comets may have contributed to the fluctuation of 14C in the atmosphere throughout the Earth's history, which should be considered carefully to better constrain the cosmic ray fluctuation.

another article by a different team

I find it axiomatically amusing that our solar cycle is recorded in ice cores .

a reply to: Hanslune

You had me at "extraterrestrial" and lost me at "radio carbon".

Anyway you can explain in simpler terms? If not, it's cool. I'll research it more tomorrow when i'm not tipsy.

Quick search of "14 c" says carbon-14 was discovered in 1940...... Roswell 1947 ????.... perhaps extraterrestrial isn't so far off?

(i admire your knowledge and research Hanslune)

It has happened before, so it can happen again.

originally posted by: alexball
It has happened before, so it can happen again.

Exactly, however what effect did it have on the people and civilizations at that time? Off hand I can think of nothing key happening then. Baghdad was the largest city in the world followed by one in China, Europe was in the dark ages, the Byzantine empire was under pressure of the advancing Arab world. I can think of nothing of import in the Americas, Africa or the sub continent.

Historians what was happening then?

a reply to: Hanslune

The 14C anomalies coincide with an historic comet collision with the Earth's atmosphere on 17 January AD 773.

The whole comet thing really is a biggie IMO. I did a thread about the mega-fauna extinction event that has been blamed on another comet... Our historical memories are rather short sometimes.. ancient beliefs about comets being, "portents of doom" ... There might have been a little more to the saying than we are prepared to believe today ?

a reply to: Hanslune

What I always wondered about was about Carbon dating. Wouldn't something like this have an effect on carbon dating? Mess up the isotope ratio or whatever it is?

And did I see something about decay rates not being constants maybe 6 months ago?

I think you are saying in the OP that just the entire planet had extra carbon all the sudden, right?
15% that's pretty crazy.

I don't really have a solid understanding here.

a reply to: Hanslune

I think the comet scenario makes the best sense. The Chinese recorded the event in more than one location.

(Another excerpt from the paper you quoted)

It is well established that a comet collided with the Earth's atmosphere from constellation Orion (or Shen in traditional Chinese astronomy) on 17 January AD 773, the 7th year of Emperor Dai Zong of the Tang Dynasty. The phenomenon (hereafter Dai7) lasted less than one day and had an accompanying coma that stretched across the whole sky19, 20. “Dust rain” in the daytime before the “comet” implies that a considerable amount of cometary material was added to the atmosphere assuming these two events are associated. Celestial observations were especially significant to the emperors of ancient China, especially in the Tang Dynasty, and these were carefully recorded. This event was recorded in several different official archives in China19, 20, included by royal celestial officers in Chang'an (now Xi'an), the capital city of the Tang dynasty (34°16′N, 108°54′E).

Years ago I remember talking about decay with some friends. Always was curious, who is to say decay does not change over long periods of time.

We can measure a small time frame and extrapolate an expected outcome.
Only true way to know would be observation of the rate of decay over the full life of the material in question.

Similar to how Pi has no end, well that we know of.

It is quite rational to come to those conclusions that rate of decay is constant forever, but you never know.

a reply to: Hanslune

The history of Zero (yale.edu)

But it would still be a few centuries before zero reached Europe. First, the great Arabian voyagers would bring the texts of Brahmagupta and his colleagues back from India along with spices and other exotic items. Zero reached Baghdad by 773 AD and would be developed in the Middle East by Arabian mathematicians who would base their numbers on the Indian system. In the ninth century, Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khowarizmi was the first to work on equations that equaled zero, or algebra as it has come to be known. He also developed quick methods for multiplying and dividing numbers known as algorithms (a corruption of his name). Al-Khowarizmi called zero 'sifr', from which our cipher is derived. By 879 AD, zero was written almost as we now know it, an oval - but in this case smaller than the other numbers. And thanks to the conquest of Spain by the Moors, zero finally reached Europe; by the middle of the twelfth century, translations of Al-Khowarizmi's work had weaved their way to England.

The largest most important city as you stated, where the west received its math from (arabic system), gets its lynchpin for math

wiki 0

The Arabic-language inheritance of science was largely Greek, a legacy of the rich Hellenistic tradition in Egypt and Syria.[31] In 773, at Al-Mansur's behest, translations were made of many ancient treatises including Greek, Latin, Indian, and others.

Al-Mansur was the founder of Bagdad which was the place of the worlds first university (according to Brittanica cited by wiki) called the House of Wisdom

A coincidence or synchronicity

774-775 (Al-Mansur died in 775)

774-775 Carbon Spike

The 774–775 Carbon-14 Spike was an increase of 1.2% in the carbon-14 content of tree rings during the years AD 774 or 775, which was about 20 times higher than the normal rate of variation. It was found during a study of Japanese cedar trees, with the year of occurrence determined through dendrochronology.[1][2] A surge in a specific isotope of beryllium (10Be), detected in ice cores of Antarctica, has been associated with the 774-75 event.[3] Evidence was also found in German oak.[4]

Origin hypotheses[edit]
The team that discovered it (Miyake et al.) considered various possible origins for the event, in the end hypothesizing that it was the result of a cosmic ray event, or radiation burst.[2] Another group suggested that a short gamma-ray burst, which is not associated with a supernova, may have been responsible.[5] Carbon-14 could

Before I looked any of this up, when you asked what happened in those years, my first thought was something having to do with the renaissance, this seems to be associated with the continuation of the light of knowledge that was carried by the muslims during the dark ages of the west.

I realize you Hanslune probably don't put any significance to this, and I'm not making any claims, just pointing out what I found. Either way it caused me to learn more about the importance of the city of Bagdad, named City of Salem/Peace by its founder, and btw planned by 2 astrologers one Zoroastrian and one Jewish.

The most important thing about this research is it allows science to further refine carbon-14 dating. The more they understand and map the fluctuations in atmospheric carbon in the past the more accurate such dating is.

Quick search of "14 c" says carbon-14 was discovered in 1940...... Roswell 1947 ????.... perhaps extraterrestrial isn't so far off?

Using it for dating, not the element itself. The element has always existed.

a reply to: 727Sky

The comet theory is intriguing, perhaps we are partly motivated to monitor Mars due to the comet that will soon approach, studying its effect. To me, comets giveth and taketh, either by direct strikes or by "crop dusting" planetary bodies with their tail materials/trace organics. To sample their material entering an atmosphere and/or settling on soil is of great importance and value for planetary science, especially on our neighboring planet.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: alexball
It has happened before, so it can happen again.

Exactly, however what effect did it have on the people and civilizations at that time? Off hand I can think of nothing key happening then. Baghdad was the largest city in the world followed by one in China, Europe was in the dark ages, the Byzantine empire was under pressure of the advancing Arab world. I can think of nothing of import in the Americas, Africa or the sub continent.

Historians what was happening then?

Hans,
Thanks for posting this, for me the Chinese accounts combined with material recovered from ice cores pretty much pin it down to a comet.

As far as what is happeneing in the new world,
The Classic Maya Collapse is in full swing.
en.m.wikipedia.org...
Teotihuican is in it's death throws. Drought and failed crops are the norm in meso America and in the US sw.

originally posted by: punkinworks10

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: alexball
It has happened before, so it can happen again.

Exactly, however what effect did it have on the people and civilizations at that time? Off hand I can think of nothing key happening then. Baghdad was the largest city in the world followed by one in China, Europe was in the dark ages, the Byzantine empire was under pressure of the advancing Arab world. I can think of nothing of import in the Americas, Africa or the sub continent.

Historians what was happening then?

Hans,
Thanks for posting this, for me the Chinese accounts combined with material recovered from ice cores pretty much pin it down to a comet.

As far as what is happeneing in the new world,
The Classic Maya Collapse is in full swing.
en.m.wikipedia.org...
Teotihuican is in it's death throws. Drought and failed crops are the norm in meso America and in the US sw.

Ah so an effect on weather then? My knowledge of weather modification mechanics and science is limited so how would this effect said mechanisms?

a reply to: zardust

Actually I put a great deal of significant to it and I thank you for your contribution. Once long ago I had to take over and complete a class in Islamic History, after the professor running it died unexpectedly and since then I've always had an interest in that particular subject.

a reply to: Hanslune

This is a fascinating study. I can only speak for my own wee corner of the world, but there is an idea that the legends of King Arthur in Britain describe the comet and resulting climate change at the start of the Dark Ages. In other words, the comet caused the Dark Ages in Europe.

Debris from the near miss bombarded the Earth with meteors, which threw enough dust and water vapour into the atmosphere to cut out sunlight and cool the planet to cause crop failure across the northern hemisphere. The cataclysmic famines weakened people's resistance to disease and led to the great plague of the emperor Justinian. It could also be responsible for the Arthurian stories about gods appearing in the sky followed by a fertile kingdom becoming a wasteland.

The Independent - Comet

The premise in the Arthurian legends is that the knights come together from the desolate wastelands, and Arthur Pendragon's birth is heralded by the red dragon (comet?) appearing in the sky. The events become anthropomorphised as an aide memoire, if you like, to pass the story down through the generations.

Here's a similar example of Celtic folk stories having their roots in the sky:

Under a Celtic Sky

It's a similiar idea to the thought that Lugh of the Long Arm was a much older comet, whose memory was kept alive by the deification almost of the celtic god Lugh. Great thread, S&F.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Absolutely. It also shows rather definitively that we can account for these fluctuations when usin 14C as a dating mechanism thus not only increasing the accuracy of those readings but also eradicating one of the biggest acts of opposition to the accuracy of 14C dating. For every naysayer who claims "we don't really know" and "how do you know that decay rates are constant or the 14C levels are constant" this is the answer to those questions and protestations.

a reply to: Hanslune
Hans,
Dust loading from a close pass or a pass through the tail could cause a substantial drop in atmospheric temperatures. Also the gasses from the body, would also occlude the sun to a degree.
If there was an impact , as has been proposed for the south pacific, then even more dust and parasol gasses would be injected into the atmosphere.