California adopts ‘yes means yes’ sex-assault rule

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is a flawed interpretation of Occidental's own policy on consent, which requires students be not merely drunk but actively incapacitated for rape to have occurred, according to FIRE Vice President Robert Shibley.

Yep. I think they might have to do some backtracking on this one, unless there were drugs given to her she was unware of , and there is no mention of that.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Why is her side of the story necessary? The lawyer said it was rape because a girl apparently can't make rational decisions such as consent to sex while under the influence of alcohol. That was the entire justification for upholding the rape charge. Her story is only important in that it initiated the rape allegations, but with all the evidence stacked against rape being an actual result of this night between the two they had to use a VERY shady loophole to make the rape charge stick. Text messages and additional people at the party confirm that the sex was consensual. So her story has to be PRETTY compelling to overturn that evidence (without using the alcohol loophole that was used).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't want to vehemently defend this case, because odds are this young man might have been treated unjustly.

BUT.... she could've changed her mind once in the bedroom, or where ever it was to take place. Maybe her crush suddenly vanished. Crushes do that. Or maybe she did lose consciousness. Just sayin' we don't know the complete story until we've heard the details of her side.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Hence why people are saying this law promotes the idea that regret = rape.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Man I don't know! Maybe he stripped and she saw he had venereal warts or something! Maybe he needed a good scrubby shower and she changed her mind, but he proceed anyway! Give me a break here! I don't think he was all full-blown Mr. Perfect in this.

originally posted by: therationalist
a reply to: SearchLightsInc
Why???? If women have the right to act irresponsibly yet not be blamed for rape which is a crime then so do men. They have the right to have consensual sex with women and not be falsely accused of rape.
If women aren't expected to be careful then why should men????
If first is considered blaming the victim, what is the second???

^^ Exactly what i thought this thread would turn into, a pissing contest for boys wanting to be given the green light to sleep with women who gave mixed signals. When will you particular types of boys get it? NO MEANS NO. Doesn't matter if she was grinding on you while dancing. Doesn't matter if she was drunk and wearing scantily clad clothing, if you get down to business and she has a change of mind - put on your big boy pants and walk away.

Or to avoid this kind of drama all together, dont attend social gatherings with the intention of boning some random chick.

You'll never get the green light, quit trying already.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Ever reverse that story in your head for a second?

They did the deed willingly. He didn't call the next day because guys are $^%# like that. She gets PO'ed and claims it's rape?

That narrative is just as plausible as the one you made up.

Except in both cases the young man is going to be a convicted sex offender.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

So you see nothing wrong with the legal rationale that a girl cannot consent to sex on alcohol and any potential one night fling while under the effects of alcohol could cause a man (because let's be honest here, this law won't apply to women the same way as men. even the OP points that out) to become a sex offender?

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

If you include alcohol as a date-rape drug, I agree with you to a point.

Videotape all sexual encounters, keep them organized properly so you can find them later. Someone tries to claim rape, upload the footage proving otherwise to the internet, then send the DA a link. Don't forget to start the video with a verbal consent ritual of some sort. That is what sex will be coming to with these ridiculous laws.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
Surely this is not singularly being used to punish innocent men. It is probably more directed at those god-awful date rape drugs, which are typically combined with the alcohol the female has already consumed.

I don't think (at least I hope) this won't cause false reports, and I'm thinking it won't.

Guys, as women we are your sisters, mother's, aunts, GF's, wives, etc. and nobody wants to see you punished for something you didn't do.

Somebody wrote "when regret becomes rape", ouch. I can see possibilities with that, but I honestly believe most women have better sense than that. Plus, being put through a rape-trial is grueling.

This was my original post. Here it is for all to see, and hopefully actually read and comprehend. The ensuing conversation, based on this post is beyond ridiculous.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Oh I get your point. The law was written with good intentions (to help legitimate rape victims battle fuzzy rape defenses in court), but my point is that implementation results in many unforeseen consequences. Once a legal precedent is set, there is nothing stopping any number of other lawyers from citing the case and law for the same reasons.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

How a woman dresses and presents herself matters very much. The way some women dress and cloth themselves is far more intoxicating than any drink of drug.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

So you see nothing wrong with the legal rationale that a girl cannot consent to sex on alcohol and any potential one night fling while under the effects of alcohol could cause a man (because let's be honest here, this law won't apply to women the same way as men. even the OP points that out) to become a sex offender?

What i see here is a pointless debate that cant be rationalized no matter what side you're speaking for. A man can sleep with a sober woman and it can still result in a claim of rape. By bringing in the "Yes mean's yes" logic then you're opening pandora's box for some pest's to be like:

"Well, she did grind on me while dancing, i thought there was chemistry and that's what made it okay for me to sleep with her"

The basic and very simple truth is this, no one will ever know what truly transpired between those 2 adults. two thing's society does not want, 1) Women accusing men of rape who did not rape. 2) Men walking free from rape charges when they did indeed commit rape.

No law introduced is going to solve this issue and the "Yes means yes" is set to only benefit the accused who will find it easier to walk free if they did indeed commit an act of rape. It would be much simpler if people didn't engage in random sex but again, we know how unlikely that is to happen. If you're scared of being accused of being a rapist, do the logic and responsible thing - Dont sleep with someone you dont trust because at the end of the day, you dont get a say what comes after, men and women both spread lies after doing to dirty with one another.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

How a woman dresses and presents herself matters very much. The way some women dress and cloth themselves is far more intoxicating than any drink of drug.

/facepalm

This is why your collages are teaching the notion that all men are rapists.

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Except in both cases the young man is going to be a convicted sex offender.

No he's not. There were no CRIMINAL charges filed against him. This is purely a matter of what the College is doing to him.

originally posted by: TKDRL
Videotape all sexual encounters, keep them organized properly so you can find them later. Someone tries to claim rape, upload the footage proving otherwise to the internet, then send the DA a link. Don't forget to start the video with a verbal consent ritual of some sort. That is what sex will be coming to with these ridiculous laws.

Yea that's what i was thinking. I see a new privite app called secret sex vine where you can upload a consent video and it be held on a secure server somewhere. Then also a drunk app where you can take a test to see if you are sober enough to give your consent. Sure if you can remember your mothers maiden name then you are good to go.

a reply to: SearchLightsInc

What are we to do with all these self abusive posters like yourself? Do it harder next time and you may get some of your sense back.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: SearchLightsInc

What are we to do with all these self abusive posters like yourself? Do it harder next time and you may get some of your sense back.

Self abusive? Do you mean calling you out on your rape approving attitude?

I live in California and this is going to turn into 1 big cluster***k. if I was a college guy, I would carry permission slips and an audio recorder to every possible sexual encounter I would have, and have the willing "yes girl" testify in writing and into the recording device, so I could not be sued or imprisoned....one more thing for you young guys out there...even if you have a "yes girl" right now, she could turn on you in the future, if she gets pissed off enough....I think there is going to be a lot more "right-hand-mary" parties in the future... and for those unscrupulous girls, it's time to make some SERIOUS MONEY from lawsuits...