BREAKING: Video Finally Released of Cops Shooting Man with a Toy Gun in Wal-Mart

a reply to: halfpint0701
Agreed, the caller should very well be questioned for this.

Very shocking. Was this fear culture of "see something say something?" Had imagined that he was a threat? Figured he was a threat, and they will add a story as witnesses. Or part of the "me" "I'll be a hero" even if I lie, selfishness. Makes ya wonder. Don't doubt it will be some excuse trying to save face.

originally posted by: Answer
Instead of responding with emotion and "cops are all murderers" like most of you here, I'll analyze what we see in the video.

Guy picks up an already-open airgun off of the shelf and walks around the perimeter of the store for awhile until stopping in one section and acting strangely. I'm not implying that this part has ANYTHING to do with the shooting but it appears as though he was trying to shoplift the air rifle.

He loiters in the section for so long with "a gun" that people become concerned and they call the police. Police know nothing other than "man with a gun acting strangely." They don't know it's an airgun.

They approach and yell at him, his first instinct is to raise the rifle as he turns toward police... so he gets shot. Watch closely and you see the muzzle coming up as he turns toward the police. That motion will get you shot EVERY SINGLE TIME. Cops don't wait around to see if you'll actually pull the trigger and they don't wait around to see what type and caliber of gun you're pointing at them. If you move like you're going to point a gun at an armed police officer, you will be shot. Period.

The cop will be cleared in this shooting.

What a super dumb cretin you are.

I guess you missed the interview with the "Ex marine" who never actually was a marine, where he admitted he lied.
Yet some poor dude in walmart gets shot for carrying a BB gun

and your response is

Guy picks up an already-open airgun off of the shelf and walks around the perimeter of the store for awhile until stopping in one section and acting strangely. I'm not implying that this part has ANYTHING to do with the shooting but it appears as though he was trying to shoplift the air rifle.

You are here to stir up trouble obviously with remarks like that.

Cops don't wait around to see if you'll actually pull the trigger and they don't wait around to see what type and caliber of gun you're pointing at them. If you move like you're going to point a gun at an armed police officer, you will be shot. Period. The cop will be cleared in this shooting.

You'd think shooting a guy carrying a BB gun would be illegal.

If you think otherwise and think this is normal Police behaviour and all the action you saw was correct protocol, then you're an idiot.

Firefighters risk death bravely to help people. Paramedics do the same. Cops seem to be obsessed with protecting themselves and their buddies more than the people they are supposed to serve. In almost every video of police brutality or murder I've seen they are at no risk whatsoever.

I have a distant relative of some note who was NYPD and was paralyzed from the neck down when he was shot by a criminal. He forgave the shooter and started speaking to people about the power of forgiveness. Those kinds of people aren't cops anymore.

The majority of cops (much like teachers and other formerly admirable professions) are the worst kind of people. Most people who would actually do the job well are incentivized to go into business or law or other more lucrative but less necessary jobs.

The people who should be mowing lawns or collecting garbage are now becoming cops because not only do you get amazing government style benefits, solid pay, and good job security but you also get to impose your will on others. The primary candidates nowadays are schoolyard bullies and washed up jocks. Every time I read about the sexual abuse and rape committed by cops I picture the disenfranchised Neanderthals from high school and college. I've now seen two videos of pregnant women getting tazed/tackled this month.

Cops killing minorities is old hat for America but at least we used to keep it out of sight. Now police are killing in broad daylight while being videotaped and with 0 fear. They are abusing and killing women and children.

America has gotten safer and safer as time goes by but the police are more brutal than any time since the 60s. I live in the happy quaint suburbs of America and I've never been threatened by any violent act in my entire life but I am terrified of police. They don't actually beat people up here in my happy super white town but they are rude and arrogant. I've seen little old ladies getting yelled at by cops. My own mother was berated and belittled for running a yellow light (you know the one that doesn't mean stop). They bring minimum 3 cars for basic traffic violations.

This is the result of too many cops and not enough crime. Cops need to justify their jobs lest they actually have to work for a living. I'm thinking maybe I should become a cop. Much less work then being self employed as i am now and I could have health care and a free gun and car.

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt
a reply to: Domo1

Truthfully, they are very relative, ballistically, but pellets are far more accurate than bb's...

I have a RWS 34 that puts out a .177 at 1000 FPS. bb's aren't even close. Looks like a full blown rifle with a scope feels like one as well.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: muse7

No, he shouldn't. I would have called the cops too. Seeing a guy walking around with what appears to be a real rifle is cause for concern, and he was flipping that thing all over the place.

Considering you can buy real guns at Walmart? I HIGHLY doubt someone would be let into the Walmart entrance with a gun. It would be pretty dumb to call the cops on a guy in that situation.

W

hatever the situation, if the leo's thought they could be in possible danger, they should had proceeded with caution.
But to come running directly to the victim shooting him cause of a 911 caller they don't even know ?

The thing is somebody died, the cops killed him, even if on error, they should be acountable for their actions.

If I kill somebody by mistake, would they let me go free?

Some other elements left out of the general narrative being floating around that might have some bearing on the outcome.

1. Beavercreek PD had just had Active Shooter training two weeks before this incident. One of the key parts of that training is you shoot the bad guy before he shoots someone. There is no negotiation.

2. Crawford was talking with his "Baby Momma" while out shopping with his girlfriend. While we do not have audio of that conversation, we know it wasn't overly pleasant in tone because the girlfriend wanted Crawford to walk away and deal with her on the phone.

3. The Baby Momma has been interviewed on TV as saying she heard the police order to drop it and Crawford respond it's not a real gun. This is important as it eliminates all claims of the police just bursting in shooting him on sight.

4. Walmart managers were aware of Crawford walking around and were trying to formulate how to approach him as the police were arriving because they thought he could be mistaken for a shooter.


Watch the video a few times especially in the pet food aisle. There were people that came in that aisle and left. The opposing camera view shows them looking back at Crawford as they were leaving. That was not a casual glance back towards him. After being shot Crawford tries to seek shelter from being shot again, which is natural. He runs and falls behind the end of the aisle, gets back up and tries to run from the second officer. He surrenders by laying down on his back, rolling over and putting his arm behind him.

Provided that the DOJ does not charge the officers for something, then my prediction is that Walmart will settle out of court for a large amount when the civil suits start up because the gun was on the shelves unboxed.

The victim blaming in this thread is sickening.

Since when do cops get to kill someone who has done absolutely nothing wrong, nothing illegal. The time between when they said "get down" and the first shot was fired was not enough time for the command to even register, let alone for him to comply.

The cops involved need to be on trial.
The person who called the police and LIED needs to be on trial.

Anything less spits in the face of the constitution, the law, and everything this country stands for. The police are out of control and if this doesn't stop here, its only going to get worse.

originally posted by: Domo1

No, he shouldn't. I would have called the cops too. Seeing a guy walking around with what appears to be a real rifle is cause for concern, and he was flipping that thing all over the place.

So the guy picks up a rifle in a store that sells rifles and you would still call the police?

Remind me never to go to America, I might accidentally get shot for picking my nose or scratching my bum.

Well isn't just a sad state that we live in now. I hope they didn't spend a whole lot of money on that active shooter training cause it wasn't worth anything from the looks of it.

a reply to: Shredder36

I find Walmart at fault for leaving these guns out...if you look up this particular type of gun any person could confuse this with a real assault rifle...What cop is going to tell a guy with what he perceives to be an assault rifle to drop it...at the range it's either you shoot the other person or you get shot...this is absolutely horrible and I don't even blame the marine for the mistake..I hold walmart accountable...

originally posted by: Ahabstar


2. Crawford was talking with his "Baby Momma"

No need for inverted comments, nor project. Just say he was speaking to the mother of his children. Have some respect.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Domo1

No, he shouldn't. I would have called the cops too. Seeing a guy walking around with what appears to be a real rifle is cause for concern, and he was flipping that thing all over the place.

So the guy picks up a rifle in a store that sells rifles and you would still call the police?

I see the store getting sued for leaving the BB guns out where a customer can pick them up. The real guns are locked up and you have to get an associate to open the case for you.

A tragic series of events here. Cops called to man with a gun situation. Dumbass that called didn't think or didn't know.

Plus and I hate to say this but a black man with a gun is what set this off. What no one has ever come in and picked up a BB gun off the shelf before? And the general climate we live in over here these days.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt
a reply to: Domo1

Truthfully, they are very relative, ballistically, but pellets are far more accurate than bb's...

I have a RWS 34 that puts out a .177 at 1000 FPS. bb's aren't even close. Looks like a full blown rifle with a scope feels like one as well.

I didn't say bb's are as fast as pellets. Obviously, a round bb vs. a skirted pellet, will not retain as much pressure behind it.


And, my Ruger Air Hawk also shoots projectiles @ up to 1,000 feet per second...The key phrase being "up to"! Because the fancy little pellets that will go that fast are, in fact, much lighter than a standard copper bb. And, velocity is but one parameter when calculating ballistics.

How in the Hell is he supossed to Obey commands when they dont even give him time to do so. Execution in my eyes. And a Grand Jury wont do what they are supposed to do, this is goingto reach a boiling point, and I think that boiling point is being deliberatly manufactured. Im appauled at the video, If the cops dont get judgement on Earth, they will when God does.

a reply to: spacedog1973

Hence the quotation marks to clearly and efficiently identify that there is a difference between the woman on the phone and the girlfriend he was shopping with. A few reports do not clearly define that fact.

That is important to the situation. The conversation may have been heated and may explain Crawford's more animated gestures such as swinging the gun back and forth and placing the gun on the shelf on the bag of pet food for a time.

If he was talking on the phone in a loud or angry manner or was talking in a defeated tone (like giving in to a point in an argument) it could have sounded like he was talked back into or out of a course of action.

I think that what the Grand Jury determined was that the police thought that they were stopping an active shooter before he started. So the question is, if it had been a real gun would your opinion of the situation change?

Personally I see it as the police shot a man that didn't need to be shot. But understand how it could have happened. Sometimes decisions made in a fluid situation are not the right ones. Talking on a phone while holding what looks like a real gun and becoming so wrapped up in the conversation that you do not react to your surroundings was not a good decision. Shooting a guy that has not made aggressive moves or acknowledged your presence is not a good decision. But this was an accidental death. I don't see the malace needed to call it murder, execution, racially motivated or any other inflamitory label meant to fire up the uninformed.

Does anyone know yet why he was practicing silent drill with the gun in Walmart? Not saying it's a capital offense to do so, but it's a little weird. I'm not sure that's something a rational person would do. I would never consider picking up a bb/pellet gun and drilling with it while I'm shopping.

Why was he doing what he was with the gun?

a reply to: ZeroReady

He was engrossed in his phone call and didn't even realise he was doing that?

I regularly find myself doing silly or strange things (such as pacing a line in the floor tiles, or clicking a set of tongs together repeatedly that was nearby) while on the phone and not paying attention to the outside world.

Not everything is a conspiracy mate.

a reply to: Kryties

I never said the word conspiracy. That's a plot between several people to accomplish something sinister.

I asked why this one guy thought it would be a good idea to practice rifle manual while he was shopping. How could someone do that and not think that's going to draw unwanted attention to yourself?

Open carry does not mean you can walk around swinging it in the air, twirling it on your finger, resting it on your shoulder, etc. It needs to be holstered and secured. If you do brandish it then you run the risk of being arrested (or shot, as in this case). Very simple rules. It doesn't matter what county you live in, you can't walk around with a fire arm drawn.

I'm going to piss many people off, but his actions, in and of themselves, were instigative and were the original initiator of the events that followed.