Man + Suicide + Knife = Police/SWAT + Snipers + MRAP + Murder

a reply to: Soloprotocol
Generally speaking when your body is being pulsed with electricity your muscles and tendons tend to tense and cramp, so im guessing that may have been a factor in him not dropping the knife! ergo:
"drop the knife,drop the knife..taze him again" is an oxymoron.
S&F for the OP btw

a reply to: TrueBrit

A person without a ranged weapon should never be shot to death, and a police officer should always be more prepared to risk their own life, than to take another. If not, they should not be doing the job.

I'm sorry but this is BS.

A deranged man comes at me with a knife and I will shoot the guy dead.

I have several scars on my left arm and a stab wound scar in my left shoulder from defending myself from a crazed druggy with a knife. He could have killed me if it wasn't for 2 things...My patience, and the fact that I was with a bunch of friends, some of them also suffered knife wounds. One of them got stabbed pretty good and we had to get him to a hospital.

If I had been armed that day I would have shot that MFer dead.

If you think you can defend yourself from a knife, or a baseball bat, or a shovel with out some kind of ranged advantage then I'm afraid close combat is not something you have a lot of experience with.

Since that incident I have sought out active self protection education. I have studied hand to hand combat, I became an expert marksman, and am very, very good with a collapsible baton. But I still carry a gun.

a reply to: AnteBellum

Confirmed kills or partial kills earn a paid vacation.
This society is consenting with it's ignorance.

a reply to: AnteBellum

I've witnessed the exact same situation first hand-and the police response was overkill to say the least.

One of my neighbors (now deceased) threatened to do the same thing and a stand off occurred. There were half a dozen cops armed to the teeth and armored as well-hence the overkill reference. I was an acquaintance to the man and I approached the officer in charge and offered an alternative solution- I could talk the man out of the predicament or disarm him myself-but his response was typical: "let us deal with it."

So I chose to ignore him (which was a stupid idea in retrospect) and sneaked my way around the back of his house so I could get inside and take the knife from him-and I knew I could. But as I stealthily made my way through his door, the cops spotted me and started screaming at me, giving away my position. So rather than risk a night in a cell or worse, I retreated.

Eventually the stand off was resolved, and my neighbor was taken to a psychiatric ward. Not two weeks later he was in another stand off with a knife to his throat and once again the cops came armed to the teeth and adorned in Kevlar, and once again the situation was resolved.

There was no third stand off-he took his own life via overdose. While the heavy handed approach by the police was uncalled for, it was the mental health facilities and the doctors that failed him; they chose to throw drugs at the problem and the same drugs that they prescribed to him were the ones that killed him.

And the irony of the police response is priceless-"Don't kill yourself or we'll shoot" and having come close to suicide myself that the last thing you want to hear because it's a unintentional form of encouragement.

a reply to: projectvxn

Six years of unarmed combat against knife wielding psychopaths, every weekday, of every week of term during high school says different. That's what school was like. So... Tell me again how it is that I do not know what I am talking about?

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Thank you for that story!

I too and many others have seen this occur more and more often now. If I was an officer I would try to take away the knife but would first gear up with protective armor. I myself own several types as a civilian, why cant they have a quick zip-up type of shark-bite suit to don with a riot helmet, sitting in the trunk, when these situations occur.
Does the suit not equal the value of saving a human life? Disturbed, drugged, whatever.

I learned techniques to disarm in several martial arts classes, even without gear a trained officer could easily have done this. Unfortunately training to be a marksman takes precedence!

a reply to: AnteBellum

Even "Dirty" Harry Callahan wouldn't dare to do something like what these so called cops are doing.



Dirty Harry's response to these cops

a reply to: AnteBellum

Assuming that was in reply to my comment. I'm no handgun expert, but I tried to contribute to this pressing event if it helps for more attention, which in turn reflects what we are dealing with now.
You probably don't want to hear any more about it but big pharma drugs aren't much of a solution for help being a crutch, these days anyway when proper psychiatric help is hard to come by in emergency. Apparently some people didn't have a choice when they called for police assistance.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
F these murdering psychopaths



Like hey couldn't have used as tazer?



Just sic



Eta never call the cops unless u want someone ded



a reply to: AnteBellum

So true im afraid, I myself am trying to accept the individual may be ok but I think in a group they revert to a gang mentality with zero effort in descalating a situation..its sick.
Im sure the police succesfully prevent some suicides and we never hear of it, but bringing a swat team is not helpfull.
I have had 2 instances of calling the police..one accidental and 1 on purpose and both times they tried to turn it around and focus on me/us..for nothing i promise. I will never call them for any reason ever again.
As to the op the guy wanted to die I guess, and the popo didn't do enough or don't know what to do with the mentaly ill..escelation does not work.

You know it's amazing you can be charged with trying to kill yourself but when the cops do it, it's just another part of their job. I haven't watched the video so I don't know the particulars in this case but If someone wants to end their life why do the cops get to decide to kill him instead? According to the OP all other occupants were out of the house so he was only a threat to himself. Doesn't freedom mean doing what you want as long as it doesn't infringe on another's rights? Killing him was probably what he wanted anyways but why do the cops get to decide that? Isn't that like one of the most personal decisions someone can make?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: projectvxn

Six years of unarmed combat against knife wielding psychopaths, every weekday, of every week of term during high school says different. That's what school was like. So... Tell me again how it is that I do not know what I am talking about?

Uh huh.

Sorry not everyone is as badass as you are.

Either way, I will believe my instructors, the various studies done on close combat by people who have actually been in it for a living, and my own experience before I believe someone on ATS who is trying to convince me that he got into knife fights every day for 6 years in high school.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
oh well, at least we know the smoke alarms working....
I lost count of the Warnings the guy got...If only he had "Dropped that Knife"

yeah, the warnings ...

"Drop that knife, or we'll kill you ..."

man: "Don't come any closer, or I'll kill myself ... I swear".

"Drop it now, or your dead"

man: "I'm not kidding, if you come any closer I'm gonna killmyself!"

bang bang

a reply to: projectvxn

I don't think it has anything to do with being a badass. One of my instructors is a 120 lb. Korean Acura Mechanic but this little tiny man can take down 6 people if the need be. He agreed to train me and 5 others if we paid for a place to do it several years ago.
Part of his training, which differs greatly from the 'schools', is that he taught us real life situations to avoid. He would ask us to attack him with rubber knives, bamboo poles and nobody could hit him seriously enough to stop him from beating our ass.
The point being he wasn't even a professional trainer, the police have access to these trainers all over the country but why aren't they using them or the defensive training.

a reply to: AnteBellum


Police aren't as well trained as people would like to believe.

Hell they aren't even good marksman.
Their PT standards are garbage.

Their hand to hand training is rudimentary at best.

I'm a soldier. I train for heavy combat. But I am also a human being.

Active self protection requires skills, planning, AND equipment. It also requires you to be realistic. Knife attacks are more often than not a surprise attack. It's not west side story. And if someone is going to start stabbing you to death they aren't going to square off with you.

Knife fights are brutal and chaotic, like any other fight. You can learn all the disarming techniques you want, hopefully they serve you well, but at the end of the day the goal of defense is to STOP the attack. Taking a knife from someone won't necessarily stop the attack. In REAL COMBAT it takes more than one bullet to stop a guy, more than one stab wound to kill a person, more than one punch or kick to knock someone out.

a reply to: projectvxn

a reply to: semperfortis

Well you are a Marine. I'm still in the Army doing my thing.

Been to combat myself.

I love it when people think combat is anything like hollywood movies and feel the need to exaggerate their experience for the sake of winning an argument over something they clearly know nothing about.


On the issue of exceptions: There are always exceptions. But they are "exceptions", by virtue of not being the common occurrence, which in that case, would make that the "rule".

a reply to: projectvxn

a reply to: projectvxn

I can totally agree with what you are saying from that point of view.
Knife fights are as chaotic as can be and most cops can't run around the block let alone after someone.

But in the situation that occurred in the video, I would have stopped after the second shot, wouldn't you?
Clearly if this guy was crazed and trying to hurt others or if there were bystanders around, I may have decided differently. But in this case there is one male with one knife, already been tased and only other officers around. Would I still shoot, hell yeah I'd still shoot, but I wouldn't unload on him like that at point blank range.

I see how the suicidal man with a knife could be a threat to others but this is wrong. Maybe a few officers standing back and one trying to figure it out calmly and rationally. This reminds me of a frightened animal. Someone tries yelling at it to calm the animal down. Riles it up even more.

In this instance they became more of a threat to the man and others than that suicidal man was.