"God of the Gaps" and other things.

a reply to: Diderot

To seek the embrace of perfect Justice is to enrich the heritage of humanity. We are on a journey.

I asked if you embraced perfect justice, because if God exist and is perfectly just can he excuse some of the actions you preformed in your life? If there is such a thing a perfect justice, I dont think that any human could honestly say that they should be pardoned based on actions of their own accord.

You seek the grace and blessing of your God, and I seek the promise of our human potential.

To be honest friend, I dont seek either of those things anymore, because I believe I have already received them. What I seek now is those who are lost within the temptations of the world. My purpose is to plant a seed in those who find truth in my words, and God will do the rest.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

"To be honest friend, I dont seek either of those things anymore, because I believe I have already received them. What I seek now is those who are lost within the temptations of the world. My purpose is to plant a seed in those who find truth in my words, and God will do the rest."

Are you quite sure that you have received the grace and blessing of your God?
Are you so wise as to see those who are lost within the temptations of the world?

Finally, is it not possible that the souls you seek to reach are already on the path to enlightenment?

a reply to: Diderot

Are you quite sure that you have received the grace and blessing of your God?

100%. The God I chose did not leave me in the dark. Grace is a peculiar thing for an atheist to seek, how do you define it?

Are you so wise as to see those who are lost within the temptations of the world?

I have already told you friend, I am not wise, nor do I believe wisdom is what is necessary to see those who are lost. God sent a part of himself to guide me. Christians call this part of God the Holy Spirit. If I step out of the flesh and examine the situation with my spirit, then the Holy Spirit is there with me and gives me input when I need it. The gift that allows me to see those who don't know Christ is called discernment. Do I always see and recognize them? No, because I am not always listening. I tune God out occasionally out of pride and ignorance.

Finally, is it not possible that the souls you seek to reach are already on the path to enlightenment?

I believe there is only one path to salvation friend. It is a simple path, but a narrow one. One thing, you never answered do you ever pray?

a reply to: Akragon

How exactly did you come to this conclusion? Is it what you've been taught, or is it a conclusion you've found though reading the bible?

James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.


2 Timothy 2:7
Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

In order for God to give you understanding in everything, he must first possess it himself.

You'll find it best not to ask me if its what I have been taught as I don't attend a local church. I simply do personal research and discuss with the people in my daily life. Though I did attend churches in my earlier years, I never really paid attention or cared about anything other than the girls that were there honestly.

psalm 145:14-17
The LORD upholds all those who fall and lifts up all who are bowed down.
The eyes of all look to you, and you give them their food at the proper time.
You open your hand and satisfy the desires of every living thing.
The LORD is righteous in all his ways and loving toward all he has made.

Lamentations 3
31 For the Lord will not reject forever, 32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the sons of men.

Notice what verse 33 says. God never wished to do those things to man. Sometimes God must do things because of his character that he doesn't enjoy doing.

The NT says "God is love"... In the OT you'll find many instances of "god" killing innocent men, women, and children... and telling his people to do this as well..

innocent in whose eyes? Also why don't you give specific references as that statement gives no evidence for your claim except your own thoughts.

Figured I would tag this on as well:

Jeremiah 18:7-8
If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned.


What do you think perfect Justice is? How much Evil does a judge who is perfectly Just allow to go unpunished?

Just-given or awarded rightly; deserved, as a sentence, punishment, or reward:

God has the right to take anyones life whenever he pleases imo. We are all sinners and therefore all deserve death and then we deserve to go the the second death or hell. It is only through grace and faith that we are saved.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

God has the right to take anyones life whenever he pleases imo. We are all sinners and therefore all deserve death and then we deserve to go the the second death or hell. It is only through grace and faith that we are saved.

It's the third Reich all over again.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Why are you here? I am not asking this rudely, but what is your purpose? That comment is petty. You have no desire to know God, so why browse the theology forums. You said yourself even if I were to prove He was there you wouldn't seek Him. Perfect justice. What is that to you?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TzarChasm

Why are you here? I am not asking this rudely, but what is your purpose? That comment is petty. You have no desire to know God, so why browse the theology forums. You said yourself even if I were to prove He was there you wouldn't seek Him. Perfect justice. What is that to you?

As far as I know, I can go anywhere I want. Perfect justice is...teaching someone to appreciate the consequences of their crimes. Anyone can inflict pain or demand money. But its my opinion is that perfect justice comes from educating rather than destruction. Remember the Alexander legend with the gordian knot? I see no virtue in solving your problems by breaking them. When you have shown someone the error of their ways, you have triumphed. That is justice, in my opinion.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

None of those passages explained how the "Christian God" is perfect...

Notice what verse 33 says. God never wished to do those things to man. Sometimes God must do things because of his character that he doesn't enjoy doing.

And that includes animals ripping children to shreds for name calling?

innocent in whose eyes? Also why don't you give specific references as that statement gives no evidence for your claim except your own thoughts.

Please read the above... again

And I would say innocent in the eyes of the Lord...

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

What do you think perfect Justice is?

Whatever it is, it isn't found in the OT...

How much Evil does a judge who is perfectly Just allow to go unpunished?

Just-given or awarded rightly; deserved, as a sentence, punishment, or reward:

really...

God has the right to take anyones life whenever he pleases imo. We are all sinners and therefore all deserve death and then we deserve to go the the second death or hell. It is only through grace and faith that we are saved.

Well if you consider Jesus "God" and take into account what we know of him within the books that have HIS words in them... God wouldn't just take a life for silly reasons...

what you just said is the word of Paul... Not Jesus...

and he didn't teach "faith alone" either...

IF you consider the "Christian God" to be perfect you should stick to "Christian" material if you want to reinforce or argue that point... in my humble opinion

a reply to: TzarChasm

As far as I know, I can go anywhere I want

I understand that. I was not questioning your right to be here, but rather I want to know why you choose to be here. Whats the purpose in these threads?

When you have shown someone the error of their ways, you have triumphed. That is justice, in my opinion.

What do you think about the death penalty? Is it ever just?

a reply to: Akragon
I don't think anyones daughter was burned a sacrifice. I think you have just misunderstood the text on that one. She was a virgin for life, not a burnt offering.

23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of [n]their number. 25 He went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

First, no where does the Bible say they were killed. Second this is more likely a group of young men, who gathered for the sole purpose of mocking a prophet of God. Baldhead was not always an insult referring to the literal amount of ones hair. It was sometimes just an epithet of scorn and contemp. Go up was most likely in reference to Elisha's mentor who had done so earlier in 2 kings. These young lads might have even had malicious intent. Elisha cursed them, but he let the Lord deal with them as he saw fit.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I understand that. I was not questioning your right to be here, but rather I want to know why you choose to be here. Whats the purpose in these threads?

i attend these threads to educate myself. remind me of why i think the way i do, and sometimes, prove to me that my thinking is wrong.

What do you think about the death penalty? Is it ever just?

sometimes, its the closest to justice that we can come.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I don't think anyones daughter was burned a sacrifice. I think you have just misunderstood the text on that one. She was a virgin for life, not a burnt offering.

What are you talking about?

I said nothing about anyone's daughter or the burning of said person I did not mention...

First, no where does the Bible say they were killed.

Tore apart generally assumes they didn't survive... these bears didn't come to cuddle...

Second this is more likely a group of young men, who gathered for the sole purpose of mocking a prophet of God.

Then it would have said young men... not children...

Do you regularly change the texts of the bible to suit your own purposes or beliefs?

And even if it was as you say (which it clearly wasn't)... It does not change the fact that what happened was just messed up...

Baldhead was not always an insult referring to the literal amount of ones hair. It was sometimes just an epithet of scorn and contemp. Go up was most likely in reference to Elisha's mentor who had done so earlier in 2 kings. These young lads might have even had malicious intent.

they were children... they called him a name, and were torn apart by bears... and not just a few of them... forty two of them... You can make all the excuses you like... it doesn't change what the texts say... even if you do

Elisha cursed them, but he let the Lord deal with them as he saw fit.

Right... which brings me to my original point... this is not a perfect God... or a Christian God for that matter...

This is not justice... and certainly not perfect justice...

this is not wisdom even if you believe it to be so...

Sadly enough you're delusional if you believe examples like this found through out the OT are just, wise... or even deserving...

But hey... Don't dare question the so called god of the OT... or his books no matter how disgusting they prove themselves to be

Heavens forbid!

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

"100%. The God I chose did not leave me in the dark. Grace is a peculiar thing for an atheist to seek, how do you define it?:

Grace is the goodness and virtue that rewards wisdom. To be graceful is to bestow blessings upon the world.

Even in the face of tribulation, a loving soul is a wise soul.

"I believe there is only one path to salvation friend. It is a simple path, but a narrow one. One thing, you never answered do you ever pray?"

I pray only when those in my company are thus comforted. Only a fool would doubt that prayer can be a powerful supplicant that eases pain and sorrow.

In my solace I seek no communion with God.

My devotion is to the fellowship of earth that I call my family.

You, Servant, are my brother.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Grace is a peculiar thing for an atheist to seek

Out of curiosity...why?

a reply to: Akragon

What are you talking about? I said nothing about anyone's daughter or the burning of said person I did not mention...

So many responses must have got confused lol

Tore apart generally assumes they didn't survive... these bears didn't come to cuddle...

Look into the hebrew. This word could very easily mean that they were attacked by bears, not killed by them. We can assume they died it really makes no difference to me.

Then it would have said young men... not children... Do you regularly change the texts of the bible to suit your own purposes or beliefs? And even if it was as you say (which it clearly wasn't)... It does not change the fact that what happened was just messed up...

I haven't changed anything. Once again I am not changing the text, but I know that the Hebrew word the KJV translates children doesn't always mean children. It can mean young men or young lads look at other translations and use a strong's concordance and you might see that I am not changing anything, but rather just trying to translate it a bit more accurately. Just because you want to be able to show everyone how Evil God is in the OT, and since you wanna spout ridiculous lies like the OT not being Christian books even though every Christian for the past 2000 years has considered them holy....even Jesus.....so why dont you post so sources and evidence for crazy claims like that instead of those huge sweeping statements. The OT and NT go together. Every teaching taught in the NT can be found in the OT.

This is not justice... and certainly not perfect justice...

God dealt with these young lads according to the Law. They were sinners regardless of what their intentions were towards Elisha, God had a right to take their life. Just as he has the right to take mine now. You ignored my question about a perfectly just God. You played it off as though it was a dumb question, but I'll ask again how much Evil can a perfectly Just God allow to go unpunished?

a reply to: Diderot

Grace is the goodness and virtue that rewards wisdom. To be graceful is to bestow blessings upon the world.

You and I define Grace differently. Grace to me, and I would say to most Christians has nothing to do with those things. Rather Grace is a gift much similar to mercy. Grace is what saves a Christian. It is the love and mercy given to us by God simply because He loves us and wants us to be with Him. I didn't have to do or learn anything to achieve this gift. God just handed it to me, without expecting anything in return other than I love Him and everyone I meet.

I pray only when those in my company are thus comforted. Only a fool would doubt that prayer can be a powerful supplicant that eases pain and sorrow. In my solace I seek no communion with God.

If you never attempt to conversate, or connect with God why should he ever express Himself to you?

You are human and a sinner. Same as me. So yea I would say we are brothers. You seem to care a lot about the world in front of us.


"My devotion is to the fellowship of earth that I call my family"

That is respectable, but earth and life here are temporary friend. I am sure you have heard these questions before, but is there such a thing as cold? Or how about darkness? Do either of these things actually exist?

a reply to: TzarChasm

In Christian theology, Grace is the gift of mercy God bestowes upon us out of love. Seeing as atheist dont normally care to much about God or his plan for us I cant see why they would be searching for grace.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TzarChasm

In Christian theology, Grace is the gift of mercy God bestowes upon us out of love. Seeing as atheist dont normally care to much about God or his plan for us I cant see why they would be searching for grace.

maybe they just search for an elegant way to live as base creatures. not so much a perfect life as a beautiful death.

a reply to: TzarChasm

That's fine and cook if that's what they look for, but its not grace in my opinion

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TzarChasm

That's fine and cook if that's what they look for, but its not grace in my opinion

your definition of grace is kissing gods back porch until he gives you a break. in my opinion. those who make their own blessings are far better off, just like the man who learns to fish.