Here is my problem with the 2nd amendment...

www.wfla.com...

Town N Country woman accidentally shoots her grandson

A woman accidentally shot her grandson early Tuesday morning in Town 'n' Country, Hillsborough deputies confirmed.

The report of the shooting at 6505 Altamonte Drive came in at about 1 a.m. Deputies said Linda Maddox, 63, who lives at the address, was asleep with her twin grandsons. The boys' dad had gone to work and Maddox put a chair against the door for extra protection.
Suddenly she heard the chair sliding against the wood door. She thought it was an intruder. She grabbed the loaded .22 mm she always keeps by her bed and fired one shot towards the door.

Seconds later she heard her grandson Tyler Maddox, 7, scream. She shot him in the upper body, Hillsborough deputies said. Paramedics took the boy to St. Joseph's Hospital. He is in critical condition but stable.

Idiots with guns

People too ignorant to ever own guns allowed to have them. The founding fathers wrote constitutional values based on their world, and within them there was inherent rights to protect people or at least, an attempt to keep out the evil corporatocracy they escaped overseas, and in their own land fighting by war. Their opinions and the laws of the land were based on that, and were to defend a way of life. This was a war on freedom they sought to protect before it begun. Unfortunately, this war was lost, long ago.

Landlords of the Flies are the new ruling class

Wall Street. The Upper Big Branch Mine Disaster. Deepwater Horizon. These are not summertime Hollywood blockbusters. These are the latest bastard children of a corporatocracy run amok. And we are the babysitters.

This is the new ruling class. The Holy Haves. The Landlords of the Flies. They feast on opulence and move with impunity, living in a land of privileged fantasy where consequence is a unicorn and leaving in their wake nothing but a trail of dross for those who are not them.

That would be We. The people. ...

And all the while nothing changes. The cozy little affair between politicians and corporate profiteers goes on without a hitch. The arrangement is so familiar and obvious our elected officials should just wear tube tops and fish net stockings and be done with it.

www.lehighvalleylive.com...

That's it. Simple to the nth degree. The war was lost, the usurpers usurped and guns are not going to help anyone now. Americans all talk about their freedom, and it's a running joke around the rest of the world. Cities with more gun violence than war zones, militarized police and floundering economies and educational systems. Too stupid to own guns let alone even understand the reason they were supposed to own them in the first place.

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? *1It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

*1 Check!! Lost. Gone. Done. Over with.

No reason anymore...

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

That's great Jefferson, tell that to the overlords that own each and every soul in your new republic.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
- George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster

And they are the largest ($ for $) in the USA,today.

The militias are long dead. And people don't even know how to store their huns properly, let alone shoot them:

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee

www.buckeyefirearms.org...

Who were the founding fathers and what was their opinion of freedom that they so good willingly tried to protect with the 2nd amendment?

1. They were a bunch of boozers.*

From Washington buying his public votes by lining the polling stations with alcohol (144 gallons), to Jefferson racking up a $200,000 bar tab while at the white house (today's currency), to Hancock running a Kennedy style drink sales scheme across the land, to Franklin who just appreciated the drink in a philosophical way.

2. They all knew how to handle a gun.

I mean, they really did. They weren't some idiots who bought guns because it gave them the illusion of freedom or made them cooler, or give them some superficial feeling of empowerment.

Some of them still competed in duels. A number of them were willing to go to arms with each other in a gentleman's arrangement, to shoot one of the other to death out of protection of their character. They were a little big on that whole dignity thing. And to protect their reputations they would go to great lengths. Like anyone of good moral character.

Now, some might say...

But didnt they have sex with prostitutes, kill people (at war or perhaps not) and were drunkards, who had slaves, and skirted or broke the law before they came into power.??

Well yes, they did, but what's that got to do with anything?

A man of his word was a man of his word. Some things have been lost in recent times. Everything we deem "moral" or "immoral" today, has sprouted out of nonsensical PC, this group that group, this union that union, this plight that plight type of whirly twirly BS. Modern day generations don't know what it even means to live, let alone be a person with a real sense of self, or actual useful thought (when it comes to self identity) miraculously springing up.

And in knowing thyself you will know thine enemy and you will know thine family.

And people today do not know themselves, nor the battles they fight in nor the sides they fight for. Everyday you put up with the system that has usurped your self identity, your wherewithal as a person, your ability to seek truth and find happiness and prosperity, you are nothing more than a cog in the machine.

And that's why the 2nd amendment is outdated. Why it's useless. The war is already lost.

a reply to: boncho
Thankfully, the Constitution is not easy to change.

a reply to: boncho
People accidentally run over loved ones in the driveway.

Ah yes. Darwinism at its best...

a reply to: boncho

Meh let them shoot themselves in the junk, just as long as they do it before they breed then it's a positive.

a reply to: boncho

If we took away people's constitutional rights based on intelligence levels, 50% of the population and 90% of politicians wouldn't be allowed to vote.

Why do I have to lose my rights because some idiot doesn't know, use, or understand his?

Because there are drunk drivers, drivers on phones texting, I want to take away your ability to drive and it isn't even a right, to drive is a privilege. There are too many idiots out there killing people because they don't know how to drive. So you don't deserve to either.

Who will be the tyrant in your world to make these decisions based on peoples wherewithal? You? Are you going to decide the test? Who gets to decide if you have the smarts to decide on the test?

Yes thats why there is a constitution, it puts us all on equal footing regardless of intelligence, income, or birthright.

Alcohol is far worse than any gun ever will be. I could go on a 60 page tirade as to why. I could include pictures that tug on heart strings. Pictures that portray the lowest classes of society. Trailer trash; people abusing their children and other people. I mean really the list is endless. You know this. So why don't we get rid of alcohol?

My point here is that morons will be morons. You can't fix stupid. But you can't judge what's best for society based on the actions of the few. Guns are just fine. The problem is the culture people are brought up in. They have little respect for anyone or anything. Parenting is where the fault lies now. Perhaps we need laws to make parents better? Laws that hold people accountable for their actions, and until their children are old enough; their children's actions.

I own several guns, one is my carry. My children know the first two laws of guns very well. Heck, my daughter "welds" her finger on nerf guns. There is no probelm with the Second Amendment; just the idiots that we call people now days.

originally posted by: boncho

And that's why the 2nd amendment is outdated. Why it's useless. The war is already lost.

The war on self defense is always a losing battle, I am glad that you surrendered. Thank you.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: boncho
Thankfully, the Constitution is not easy to change.

What would be the difference if it did?. That's the whole point of the thread. To claim the people have some spooky power over the government because they have pop-guns is nonsense. The government has armies, UAVs, microwave guns, laser beams... But forget the specifics, whatever gun you have they have a bigger one. And however many buddies you can round up for a suicide march they can get more in tactical gear.

Since the purpose of the 2nd amendment is moot, the meaning behind it is moot as well.

The two advantages to the populace being armed that serves the government well is that 1, it gives you all some mushy gushy feeling you are free and powerful on your land in your home country that belongs to you and your brethren with guns (when in reality you're a cog), and 2, it does make it very unappealing for foreign occupation so a ground invasion would not be high on an enemies' list of ways to conquer you.

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: boncho
People accidentally run over loved ones in the driveway.

And yet you have to go through training and licensing to operate a car. It's taken away from you when you're deemed unfit.

originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: boncho
Thankfully, the Constitution is not easy to change.

What would be the difference if it did?. That's the whole point of the thread. To claim the people have some spooky power over the government because they have pop-guns is nonsense. The government has armies, UAVs, microwave guns, laser beams... But forget the specifics, whatever gun you have they have a bigger one. And however many buddies you can round up for a suicide march they can get more in tactical gear.

Since the purpose of the 2nd amendment is moot, the meaning behind it is moot as well.

The two advantages to the populace being armed that serves the government well is that 1, it gives you all some mushy gushy feeling you are free and powerful on your land in your home country that belongs to you and your brethren with guns (when in reality you're a cog), and 2, it does make it very unappealing for foreign occupation so a ground invasion would not be high on an enemies' list of ways to conquer you.

Are you kidding? There is only what 1 million military and over 300 million gun owners. Thats a hell of a standing army.
Ok thats it give up your guns you're not capable of owning any. Hand them over...

When the SHTF just throw up your hands and give up, just get out of the way for those of us who would want to fight for our rights.

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: boncho

And that's why the 2nd amendment is outdated. Why it's useless. The war is already lost.

The war on self defense is always a losing battle, I am glad that you surrendered. Thank you.

The most powerful weapon being your brain. A gun in self defence often ends up as a manslaughter charge, getting tazed or bean bagged, or shot dead by police.

A long time ago you had a point:

November 2, 1853 Louisville, Kentucky A student, Matthew Ward, bought a self-cocking pistol in the morning, went to school and killed Schoolmaster Mr. Butler for excessively punishing his brother the day before. Even though he shot the Schoolmaster point blank in front of his classmates, he was acquitted.[18]

Adding weight to the point of this thread.

southernoklahoma.com...

Star and Flag because your OP is so well thought out and presented.
I, however dissagree, the second amendment is not out dated, it is needed more today than it has ever been needed.
There have always been gangs and a criminal element and there always will be.
Good people that have, and know how to use, guns do have an effect on what and where criminal elements opperate.
There are idiots out there who shouldn't have guns also, but they usually end up gaining a "Darwin Award" or learning from their mistakes.
I do agree with you that the business' and banks own our government representatives, but I do not believe it is to late to do anything about it.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

When the SHTF just throw up your hands and give up, just get out of the way for those of us who would want to fight for our rights.

Don't you get it? You don't have any. You lost them long ago. Whatever you have now is the illusion of.

Are you kidding? There is only what 1 million military and over 300 million gun owners.

No, there isn't. There many be 300 million guns but some people have 50 and some have none. And guess who has more ammo?

But that's neither here nor there because that isn't the battlefield. The war is over you lost. Your guns are your souvenirs from the war. Like taking home land mines.

The battle wasn't fought with guns, it was fought with pen and paper. Your cities, media, workplace, that was the battlefield. Money, taxes, and the very way you think are the spoils of war for those that won.

originally posted by: boncho

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: boncho
People accidentally run over loved ones in the driveway.

And yet you have to go through training and licensing to operate a car. It's taken away from you when you're deemed unfit.

Care to research how many unlicensed/uninsured drivers there are on the roads? Maybe it's a better idea to start with them as they can certainly do a lot more damage.

Glad I live in the uk with all the stupidity with guns ! I know it's the people pulling the trigger that's the problem, but if there's no trigger to pull then ! You know the rest !
Take a lesson from the uk

I own 3 guns a mosin nagant m44, a Gewehr 98 from Turkey, and a Mossberg 500. I'd own more if I could and a m1911 abd M1 Garand are probably at the top of my list. I love target shooting and am a safe and reliable marksman. There's plenty of countries with a healthy gun culture free of the associated gun violence. I think strict background checks are a good idea. Hardcore criminals are going to have guns 2nd amendment or not.

originally posted by: boncho

Don't you get it? You don't have any. You lost them long ago. Whatever you have now is the illusion of.

Only the people who don't know what their rights are; have given them up. I see you skipped my post so, I'll move along. : p

a reply to: boncho

Since the purpose of the 2nd amendment is moot, the meaning behind it is moot as well.

Some people don't need to understand their rights to exercise them.