Two suspects one hostage shot BY THE COPS

Local news

SICK!!!!!!!!!!'

STOCKTON (CBS SF) – Stockton police said at least three people are dead and one other was hospitalized after a bank robbery and high-speed chase Wednesday afternoon. One of the people killed was a hostage and the other two were suspects in the robbery.

We need to take guns away from police this is sick.

The police are killing innocent hostages!

What is wrong with us?

Someone make this make sense.

a reply to: onequestion

Police are one of many threats to your life in our chaotic world. Act accordingly.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass


More reasons to move to a rural area and arm myself.

Says it all...

a reply to: onequestion

I can give you some insight... The suspects had AK-47s and opened fire on cops during the chase. Cops returned fire. Hostages were in the car with the suspects. Part of the chase went through residential areas where the suspects were spraying bullets, so it's understandable why the cops fired back. Unfortunately the hostage got caught in the crossfire. I'm usually against the kind of force used by LEOs but in this case I think it was warranted, at least from the info I have and I grew up in Stockton, my parents and brother live there and I'm not very far away. I also have other family members who are LEO in that county.

Because being bank robbers with AK-47's holding hostages and actively shooting at the pursing police means that they are such stand up guys...right?

“During the entire pursuit, police officers were constantly fired upon by the assailants with high-powered assault rifles,” said Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones.

Sorry I was on the freeway when that chase was happening yesterday. I got to see much of it first hand as we had to move out of the way for our own safety.

So you are so freaking wrong calling the cops out on this one. The robbers had already shot two hostages and pushed them out of the moving vehicle. Bullets were flying like mad from the robbers guns. They hit houses and vehicles lots of people were nearly shot by the robbers in this chase, including us.

It is sad about the hostages but, to blame the cops on this one is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. People were everywhere on the street at the end of the chase and it is a damn fine thing that a lot of people did not die.

I am all about getting rid of the bad cops. Your rant about this though is so far off base and just wrong.

a reply to: Mamatus

I don't think that the OP even bothered to read the article much past the first paragraph before he let his hatred take him over.

A very mis-leading post and headline, in my opinion.

originally posted by: SilverStarGazer
a reply to: onequestion

I can give you some insight... The suspects had AK-47s and opened fire on cops during the chase. Cops returned fire. Hostages were in the car with the suspects. Part of the chase went through residential areas where the suspects were spraying bullets, so it's understandable why the cops fired back. Unfortunately the hostage got caught in the crossfire. I'm usually against the kind of force used by LEOs but in this case I think it was warranted, at least from the info I have and I grew up in Stockton, my parents and brother live there and I'm not very far away. I also have other family members who are LEO in that county.

What happened to radios and setting up road blocks? Why aren't the police using radios to lock down areas and divert criminals into dead end traps?

Cheers - Dave

Why aren't the police using radios to lock down areas and divert criminals into dead end traps?

We watched well over 60 cops cars try to figure out where they were going next. That area is a myriad of roads and a maze of industrial areas. I watched the cops trying to get ahead of the chase. I saw one watching from an overpass while three others had the exits from the freeway blocked off had the pukes tried to exit.

I saw others cutting down side roads at high speed trying to set up choke points. It is simply to vast an area with too many streets and exits to block off everything. Also I-% and highway 99 are busy as hell all the time so hard to shut that down also.

Good thought, maybe it would work in a smaller town but Stockton? No way.

a reply to: onequestion

No officers were injured in the incident.

Welll...that's all that matters now isn't it?

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

If you take a look at a map of the area you will see how impossible a road block would be. Stockton isn't a small town and is flanked by 2 major freeways I5 and 99 both which were used in the chase. Add on top of that Stockton's bankruptcy issues and the decreased funding for all public works including police and fire.

originally posted by: SilverStarGazer
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

If you take a look at a map of the area you will see how impossible a road block would be. Stockton isn't a small town and is flanked by 2 major freeways I5 and 99 both which were used in the chase. Add on top of that Stockton's bankruptcy issues and the decreased funding for all public works including police and fire.

So let's just shoot up hostages to make our job easier?

The problem with virtually all police responses is they only serve to escalate the situation.

Bank robbers 99.9% of the time just want the money and they're gone.

What's that? Cops are here? Grab a hostage!

Now it's a whole different ball game and the chances of it ending in a death just jumped 100%.

Rather than investigate the robbery and do real police work to track and observe and take down when appropriate it's all VanDame films and Call of Duty games with these guys lately.

Sure, in cases where the criminal has already escalated go run in guns a' blazin' and do whatever it takes to minimize the damage.

High speed chases with 50+ cruisers and crossfire out in public is not the way to minimize damage.

It took some 50 years for cops to finally start questioning high speed chases and still not all departments are willing to institute a policy of when to back off so it'll be another 50 or more years before any department even considers dropping the Stallone crap.

a reply to: HandyDandy

This is where I bite my tongue and refrain from insulting your intelligence. Lets try getting on the logic train shall we?

1. Guys rob bank and take three hostages.
2. Guys shoot hostage and toss them out of car on freeway.
3 Guys toss a second hostage with a grazing bullet wound out of the car on freeway.
4. Guys stop car, start shooting at cops with an AK-47 while using a hostage as a shield.

Do you shoot back or do you run away and hide? That two hostages lived was fantastic as it was quite clear the gangsters were will to kill them.

Make no mistake there are some really bad cops out there. However, not every situation that involves an officer shooting back can be blamed on being a bad cop. Irrational hatred of LEO's is not fair or right. There are a lot of good cops out there.

Your post makes you look like you hate before you think.

originally posted by: thisguyrighthere
The problem with virtually all police responses is they only serve to escalate the situation.

Bank robbers 99.9% of the time just want the money and they're gone.

What's that? Cops are here? Grab a hostage!

Now it's a whole different ball game and the chances of it ending in a death just jumped 100%.

Rather than investigate the robbery and do real police work to track and observe and take down when appropriate it's all VanDame films and Call of Duty games with these guys lately.

Sure, in cases where the criminal has already escalated go run in guns a' blazin' and do whatever it takes to minimize the damage.

High speed chases with 50+ cruisers and crossfire out in public is not the way to minimize damage.

It took some 50 years for cops to finally start questioning high speed chases and still not all departments are willing to institute a policy of when to back off so it'll be another 50 or more years before any department even considers dropping the Stallone crap.

If Law Enforcement took a "Investigate only" approach the little dick heads that do this kind of thing would do it a whole lot more often. These were hardened gang members. If you let them rob banks without worrying about being caught red handed no bank or business would be safe. The only thing that stops these fools is fear of death.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

Says it all...

Amen Brother, Amen!

originally posted by: Mamatus
The only thing that stops these fools is fear of death.

Then why did they proceed to exchange fire with the cops rather than lay their guns down and surrender?

Death as a deterrent is nice on paper but the reality is criminals don't think like that.

Crimes are either:
1)Planned and the criminal doesnt expect to be caught
2)Heat of the moment and the criminal takes no time to think
3)Insanity, criminal cannot think

Fear of death may deter petty wannabes or first-timers but it doesn't register one iota when a real criminal is concerned.

Even if it did, the act of police arrival leading to escalate would shut that fear down instantly much like coming under fire in a military role. Tunnel vision sets in and nothing else matter but the battle at hand.

originally posted by: SilverStarGazer
a reply to: onequestion

I can give you some insight... The suspects had AK-47s and opened fire on cops during the chase. Cops returned fire. Hostages were in the car with the suspects. Part of the chase went through residential areas where the suspects were spraying bullets, so it's understandable why the cops fired back. Unfortunately the hostage got caught in the crossfire. I'm usually against the kind of force used by LEOs but in this case I think it was warranted, at least from the info I have and I grew up in Stockton, my parents and brother live there and I'm not very far away. I also have other family members who are LEO in that county.

No, this is just an example of why cops should not pursue via car chase.

It is dangerous and often creates additional victims before it ends.

a reply to: Mamatus

They are not afraid to die. A gangbanger worth his salt will pride himself on being "hard", meaning they aren't afraid to get a beat down, killed, or go to jail.

If you are going to try to employ psychology, it would help to understand the psychology of those folks.