What do children deserve from their father ?

a reply to: Sinter Klaas

As someone who grew up without a father around I would say BEING IN their life first and foremost even if you are not with the mother. I contacted my dad about 10yrs ago and well that was the last time I heard from him. I have tried to find him again but he stays hidden for some reason.

Too many parents today keep their kids from one parent or the other due to selfish personal reasons without even thinking of the child. All children should have both parents in their lives whether they are in a relationship or not. Get along for the kids.

My dad was a coal miner and worked a lot. He'd leave at 4 in the morning and didn't get home until 6 or later in the evening. He was usually grumpy, but me and my 3 older brothers always had everything we needed, and wanted, for the most part. My dad was always interested in what we were doing and spent time with us on his days off. Really, that's all anyone can do. He wasn't the type to say "I love you" but we knew he did.

It was a big thing for us to go into his dinner bucket and get the snack cakes that were in there. Sometimes this would result in a knock-down-drag-out. I don't think he could've done any better than he did. Him and my mom were married for 50 years. We lost her last year and he's still broken. I've never seen him like this. I don't know which was worse; The death of her or watching him break and stay broken.

I have three boys and a girl and I'm very involved with them. They're everything to me and I let them know it. Watching my kids play sports is an incredible thing. They're so cute when they first start, then to watch them become passionate about it and compete is something that gives me pride in them.

I also make sure that they know the truth about everything once they can understand it. My daughter is now 15 and she knows how the world works. Now she can protect herself. When my boys get old enough I'll explain it to them. I owe them that. Otherwise, they'll end up as sheep.

One of my sons is with a different mother than the rest of my children, but I didn't know about him until he was about 5. His mom moved and I couldn't find him for many years. A few years ago he contacted me and I've tried to establish a relationship with him but it's difficult. I keep trying through patience.

To be there. Just knowing that your dad is accessible (with out fear or Intimidation) that works!
Having that in the back of a kids mind (at any age) and knowing you can go to him, about anything. That's the ticket!! IMHO

Im not the best dad, or the best person in the world. I've let my kids down a whole lot in the past and as much as I try I will again in the future.

I'm separated from their mother so I feel I should treat them to respect her and other women. (even though we have our differences and went through alot of drama in front of my kids)
My eldest is disabled and has behavioral problems, so I guess i have to find the balance between being a buddy and a disciplinarian. I always feel bad, because everyone else in the family is very lenient on him, where as I am hard as hell when he needs it. I they both understand when they are older I'm hard because I'm the only adult in their life trying to implement a bit of structure and discipline and speak to them about right/wrong and morals.

I've been through alot from childhood to now, and it pains me to say so have they but i feel I'm a great ally to have going into the world seeing as ive seen a lot and dealt with alot of what they have been through too.

I want to raise them to be brave, respectful young men that everyone can be proud of.

most of all they deserve love, guidance and when needed to be put in their place

Well according to my father, not a whole lot!

Praise them for every little thing they accomplish, whether it's saying their first word, drawing a simple picture, showing you a rock they found outside. Those little accomplishments are very big in the eyes of children, and they want us to feel the same excitement that they do about it.

Pay attention to and respond to everything they tell you. I have seen way too many parents basically ignoring their children who are trying to tell them something. For example: child: "Daddy! Look at that bird in the tree over there!" Father: "Uh-huh..." I have made it a point to get excited at every single thing my oldest son tells me or shows me. My youngest son isn't old enough to talk yet, but I make a big deal out of everything he hands me or shows me. Get just as excited as they are. About EVERYTHING. Whether you feel like it or not, pay attention to and respond to every single little thing your children tell you or show you.

My father was full of love for my siblings and I. I remember one time in particular when I was quite young. I had a Popsicle and while I was eating it, I tripped on one of our front porch steps and dropped it. I also hurt myself when I fell. While I was crying, my father picked me up and hugged me and kept telling me, "Shh, don't cry, it's okay," and he hugged me until I stopped crying. Then he got me another Popsicle. There were countless other times that he comforted me, but for some reason that one stands out. Whenever my children get hurt, I try to comfort them with the same tenderness my father showed me.

Show them anything and everything that you come across that you think will be the slightest bit interesting to them. A pretty flower, birds flying overhead, pictures of different animals on the Internet, how to make a paper airplane, lame magic tricks that thankfully they are too young to not know that you really have no idea what you're doing, but you can pull it off just good enough, and it amazes them (my specialty!). Draw them pictures of things they like, even if you aren't all that great at drawing. The possibilities are, of course, endless.

When they ask "why this, how that, what this, what that?" answer them to the best of your ability, no matter how many times they ask.

You are their protector. Constantly remember that they are helpless and defenseless, and that they look to you for protection and comfort. Hold their hand when you cross the street, and make sure they don't run out into the road. Be on your guard for any weirdos who may wish to do your family harm. It's not being paranoid; it's being cautious and vigilant. And protect them not only in the physical sense, but also in the emotional sense. Don't argue in front of them with your wife or girlfriend, etc. Make sure they see you showing affection to your wife or girlfriend by kissing her and hugging her around them. Showing her affection is a given, but make a special effort to display it (within reason, obviously) in front of your children. Protect their sensitive nature by disciplining them in an appropriate manner. Don't go overboard with the yelling and punishments.

Always hug, kiss, and tell them "I love you" when you leave. And, tell them you love them throughout the day; all day, everyday.

a reply to: Sinter Klaas

Time.

Seeing as how i got very little with my deadbeat dad, that would be most important to me. I dont care about him not paying child support or whatever, just give your children your time ffs.

originally posted by: skunkape23
a reply to: Sinter Klaas
Let the child pursue their interests. Give them encouragement to be themselves. I am a musician and painter. I had to grow up with a dad who looked down on me for being interested in, according to his view, "faggot sh#t." We don't get along.

Hello op, interesting to see this question since it is a personal one to me as well, as I can somewhat relate to the quote above, but only to an extent.


As a child I was abused emotionally verbally and physically, by both my parents, but predominantly by my father.

Hence I often wish he had never been around, but he still is, to this day. I dont want to make you feel better about your kind of suffered neglect, but if I can, I do want to put it in perspective.

My dad was around most of the time. Every evening he'd come home from work. This fact alone was enough to stress out my mother to the point of physically and verbally abusing me on a regular base, because she had to endure his #, and therefore, in turn, I got to endure hers.

Hers was actually not that bad because even though she could beat me to the point where I felt sorry for myself as I lay crumpled up in a corner, at least deep down inside it was because HE made her feel as crap as he did me, so in a way, she didnt even know any better. I already had that figured out as a kid I think.

Now my dad was quite the case. Though he never physically hit me in ways that would make it obvious, he had devised ways, probably taught to him by his own father, to make you feel pain you never knew possible. On top of that, my entire life I have felt like I was worth #, and currently I still do as I still dont have my life in order. I'm not going into too much details as I'm still in regular therapy for all the things that happened, and many of it is repressed.

Abuse is passed on through generations. My father was abused in a different manner, he treats me worse because his issues with his father never were resolved either I'm sure, though I'm way worse off than he ever was, I have been guaranteed.


I feel for you not having had a father around, though I often feel jealousy at the same time, even though that might be wrong. I remember quite clearly as a young child I already wished he'd die, I think my mental state has to be pretty #ed up considering... Maybe not knowing your father has the same effect, I dont know, but at least, maybe, there is still some imagination left in it then, whereas I have a complete picture that will just never match anything I couldve asked for in a father...




Well then...

To answer your question, a child, when growing up, needs two main things, I have learnt more recently.

1. SECURITY

2. EXPLORATION


Two simple points, I'll illustrate them anyway.
Security is obvious. A child needs to feel safe, parents need to offer a stable environment for self exploration, to return to from the outside world, to test their experiences in a safe environment

Exploration, the ability to explore the world, to go out there, meet people, find out who they themselves are, what they desire, what they want from life, how their secure environment compares to that of others,...

And obviously a mix of both, to be able to return to the secure environment and to be able to have a constant interaction going between both facets.





Sorry for the ramblings but this is a very personal subject and though this post is hardly organised, I often feel I could write a book on the subject, seeing as I have the mechanics of my (mental) life figured out, too bad the emotional side is still pretty much in ruins, but we'll get there, I hope.

a reply to: Sinter Klaas

Treat your children like they are smart, that what they think matters, value their ideas their unique way of looking at the world. Teach them how you see the world, explore it together. A childs wide-eyed wonder, is a great gift, savor it. Let your child have no question that you are there for them, will be there for them.

The fact that you are seeking, is a very good sign that you will be a great Dad.

Have fun and play.

a reply to: Iamschist

Thank you. the reasons for me asking this question suggest that I demand a lot for my kids, and that my father sucked big time at being a father.

a reply to: NoNameNeeded

My dad excelled in not being around, even when he was. Not really anyway.
My life is also still in movement so to say, but I never got abused though.Not physically and not purposefully mentally either, if I remember correct.

My perception is a bit deep- my view is more on the focus of psychological development.

Trying to sum it up, I see the mother and father as being symbols for the child of two opposing parts of themselves- their masculine and feminine sides (which we all have inside).

Each side has certain drives and qualities, and the parents show the child ways those drives can be manifested in the world, through act.

-The mother shows the child what he/she can do with their compassion, their empathy, their social drives to be part of a larger group, their tendency to nurture others, to be sensual, their emotional creativity.


-The father shows the child what he/she can do with their self awareness, ego, self confidence and self discipline, their tendencies to be individualistic, to be aggressive and competitive, to use their intellect and mental creativity.

Both of these sides have equal importance in my mind, and I consider it important for the child to learn that each have beneficial and constructive uses in the world. There are contexts for each in ones life.

Simply being present is already important- kids without a father present develope less self awareness and boundry as individuals. This means they have trouble separating themselves from mother, and later, from all others. This can be detrimental for them. Some people like to preach empathy and “oneness” as the ultimate superior state (spiritually) but it also can cause emotional instability and lack of self discipline.

So- be there, fathers!

On the rest, consider what ways those specific qualities are useful, constructive, beneficial for you, and be an example of that. We don’t all have the same ideas on what is good to do with your sense of individualism, of your drives to be egotistical, to use your intellectual power, or aggresivity. So as a father, you have to consider what your ideas are on that.

The relationship between the mother and father sets the patterns for the child in how these two parts of their self shall get along within them. Do they oppose each other and fight for dominance? Do they remain distanced and uncommunicative? Or do they exchange and interact creatively, lovingly?

The patterns set in childhood are very very hard to change- but I found that being a mindful parent yourself can re-program those. You play the scene out again, but perhaps differently than your parents did, and that is an important part of self creation- you can re-program the way your own psyche works.

OP, as for being demanding of your children, I dont think this is necessarily a bad thing, I think I would be "demanding" too, you want them to grow up with a similar set of values and morals that you have, but it is important to never be demanding on one aspect

Their identities. Never restrict them in their ambitions, dreams, life goals, joys and pleasures, please. What you will create is a child with an outer shell that might fit your every desire, but one day, without exception, that shell will crack, and what'll be left is a vulnerable child without identity and nothing to serve as a shell anymore.

Does your child like to draw? Encourage it! Music? Amazing! Sports? Great! They like the same sex? Well thats ok! Everybody is an individual and no matter what their outlook on life, with support from loving parents, most of them will succeed quite well in life. Sadly, its the ones with unstable childhoods etc that end up making the statistics of drug abuse, unemployment or worse, prison and crime.

I wish more people would understand this so less people would have children "because they're stuck in life"

My best advice would even be to not get children until you are solidly grounded in life, which Id say 90% of this planet never manages to do, explaining in part why we are so #ed up as a society. Abuse is passed on and the chain is only broken by individuals that want to break it. I couldve gone and had a kid at 18 too, only to end up treating him as fcked up as my dad did me... Instead I knew that what I went through is not meant for ANYONE and so I'd rather never have children, than have them out of not not knowing what else to do with life...


a reply to: Bluesma

I'm currently even experiencing these childhood taught patterns as nearing impossible to change. I've seriously taken the nature vs nurture debate to heart lately, as I feel it really applies in my case.

I'm a very creative and artistic person. My entire childhood I was made to believe this was bad, too low, shameful,... Till way past my 18th lifeyear I was convinced of this. The past 8 years have all revolved around finding out who I am, who I really am vs who I was forced to be most of my life

This keeps bringing conflict in my life, to this day.

Relationships are seriously tainted by my experiences too. My entire childhood I witnessed a power struggle with unforseen consequences on both sides

(The following just came out like word vomit and is an addition to the above sentiment. Read at your own discretion, this is more of a rant and a means to get this off my chest than anything else. I'd say this would be a good lesson, but I dont think many people are insane enough to even consider an option like my childhood a valid reality, so I wont even bother trying to make this about prevention, its not, it'll go on happening either way, because the people that go on with it are not smart like you or me, they dont caring about properly raising a child, they have "enough" issues of their own to care about the needs of a child)

((My father used to tell me that if I wasnt going to be a good boy any time soon, my mom would die. Later I found out she had the same psychological issues as I have, back then, and so he put the blame on an innocent 6 year old who got a spanking just for "looking the wrong way", let alone would be responsible for anyones horrible mental state...

And so my mother, who couldnt bare to tell my father that HE was the blame, worked it out on me. And when i tried telling my father or grandparents by secretly audiorecording her raging through the house, she'd almost beat me to death. Then when my father got home, she'd need an excuse, and she'd always manage to find one that would make matters even worse for me, increasing the severity of my punishment because now he got to punish me too, since it must have been my bad my mother went insane on me again!))

originally posted by: Scotscorps84
Im not the best dad, or the best person in the world. I've let my kids down a whole lot in the past and as much as I try I will again in the future.

I'm separated from their mother so I feel I should treat them to respect her and other women. (even though we have our differences and went through alot of drama in front of my kids)
My eldest is disabled and has behavioral problems, so I guess i have to find the balance between being a buddy and a disciplinarian. I always feel bad, because everyone else in the family is very lenient on him, where as I am hard as hell when he needs it. I they both understand when they are older I'm hard because I'm the only adult in their life trying to implement a bit of structure and discipline and speak to them about right/wrong and morals.

I've been through alot from childhood to now, and it pains me to say so have they but i feel I'm a great ally to have going into the world seeing as ive seen a lot and dealt with alot of what they have been through too.

I want to raise them to be brave, respectful young men that everyone can be proud of.

most of all they deserve love, guidance and when needed to be put in their place

Reading through the thread there have been many examples I have agreed

with, but it was the humbleness that came from your post and the bit I

'bolded' in yours that resonated with me.

Loving is EASY ....'Tough love' is much harder but it is as important and

necessary some times!

originally posted by: NoNameNeeded
I'm currently even experiencing these childhood taught patterns as nearing impossible to change. I've seriously taken the nature vs nurture debate to heart lately, as I feel it really applies in my case.

I get it. I think we like to imagine we are so free, to create ourselves and choose our actions, but that is not as as true as we'd like. I feel I've been able to make the most headway through two events- being a parent myself, and changing my environment radically. Being a parent makes you intensely aware of the patterns ingrained in you, but gives you, and through daily effort at mindfulness in parenting choices, a chance to counter them. With time this reprograms them. But honestly that doesn't seem to be set until the kids are finally adults themselves.

Moving to a foreign country forced me to become aware of the cultural bases that were programmed into me, not only by my family, but by my whole environment, in more or less subtle ways. That is turning out to be very hard to change too, but it starts the same way by sort of "faking it" until with time it becomes internalized and conditioned.
Because our deep patterns are reinforced by others around us, so if you take away that reinforcement, they have no support.

But the process of changing deep set patterns can be extremely painful and isolating. Honestly? As much as I think it is great when we can do so if we really want to, I do not assume everyone should do so, and totally understand those who don't (who just shrug and say I am like this, there is nothing I can do about it). The process of killing your ego (for that is what I see this as) usually means going crazy for a while- and it is not easy to get back out of that.

Look at what you described to me about your life, through the lens of the concept I described-

This would say, you watched your masculine side (your intellect) dominate and repress your feminine side (your emotions).
Though you observed that this caused a lot of rage on the feminine side, you also saw that she was somehow party and willing to this arrangement, and unaware of how that self-sacrifice effected YOU.

It sounds like you have spent a long time, trying to squelch your emotional creativity the same way, with your conditioned principles on what is okay to do and be what is not, and it hasn't been that long that you are making headway in changing that. The "word vomit" is okay with me- this is what happens when you have been repressing for a long time. The build up of need to express gets huge.

On a side note, this is not purely "mental", I believe it is physical- emotions build up in the body in the form of hormones, chemicals. I work with horses and can watch this process happen to them. Except instead of running verbally, they turn into bucking broncs for a day, and I have to just sit and leave them to get it out. The need to get it out is a physical necessity!

Trying to look at it through the frameworks of other psychoanalysts can sometimes help you put it into a context and structure that can give you a better sense of "grasping" it, and able to distance yourself from these patterns in moments.

Look more at Freud's theories of the Super ego, ego, and id ! Or at Jung's anima and animus (one I particularly like to refer to).

The benefit of these ideas is that, in certain moments, you can "label" and observe different parts of yourself and identify less with their pulsions. Like, when you start to feel yourself repressing an emotional expression, (and that causes you discomfort), you can suddenly think- "there is that super ego!" It is strange how much you can feel freer from a part of you if you point at it and name it. Suddenly you can choose not to be possessed by it. At least in that moment, sometimes. With baby steps, you can create new patterns of behavior.

I have found in my life that relationship dynamics are very hard to change. (to exchange personal info equally..) my childhood started with one pattern (real father and mother- bad situation) to a period of many years on my own without parents, then to a new pattern (mother remarried and took us to live with her and her new husband). Their relationship was completely different, SHE was very different (she had gone into a lot of therapy, and he was a different influence upon her).

So I watched a huge change in patterns of relationship. That may have set me up to be able to recreate later. My brain was set with the vision that these two sides of myself can undergo an enormous transformation.

So... what I mean to say, in regards to this topic, is for other parents-
Even if you feel you have not done as well as you would have liked as a parent, it is never too late to change things. In doing so, you might be making it possible for your kids to do so themselves, later.
A not so great dad, can become a better dad- which means for them, a not so great super ego can evolve and become a better one.

a reply to: Bluesma




Suffice to say it is so difficult and entwined ....


Coming from the same gene pool, depending on which gene's come into

the mix all the children in any one of the same family can be so very

different!!! and then occasions of step and half siblings can come into

play .....


Treating them all the same/alike will still produce very different results? and

because its subjective you get

# My parents were wonderful OR # My parents never understood me ....

Same parents, different siblings.

originally posted by: Sinter Klaas
Hello ATS. I'm looking for more ideas on the things a father should be giving his children.

What does a kid deserve, what should he get without a doubt, and which every day life things your father did for you as a kid ?
My father was never around and I don't really get beyond the point that he should at least be around.

Can you help me broaden my views on what it takes to be a father, one that is determined to do anything for his kids to have the best father he can be ?

Thank you in advance ?

I am sorry your father was not around for you. But, not everybody is meant to be a nurturing parent. Many people are self-serving and selfish, which I don't understand, but there you have it. Perhaps there is more than meets the obvious here, did you have a deep discussion with your mother as to why she chose your father, as well as what the expectations were?

a reply to: InTheLight

No I did not ask or discuss with my mother about the why's and what's that made her have a relationship with my dad.
A pointless talk about countless of things that make one act like one does, and another set of disappointments, what if's and so on that don't deserve any energy on top of what has been directed to it in the past.

My dad probably had his own issues that started out as issues or maybe even trauma in his childhood. He's been running away from every difficult thing he encountered ever since, and still is.
The past has come and get him though as the last time I checked he was in pretty bad shape, trying to coop with a PTSD that suddenly faced him. He's 58 maybe.

He's showing behavior I can clearly identify as stuff I did and have done myself, but I got to turn it around and was faced with these mental issues a lot sooner in life, and finally got to coop with some, morn, cry, pain, tears and so on... Everything that I needed to do all those years ago in lots of situations I didn't.

So although my dad was really bad dad to me overall... I think he's actually very sad and he deserves to find some inner peace himself one of these days. He has already lost so many thinks he will always regret, cause I know he will when he's gonna have to face everything he pushed away, ran from in life. He will have to learn and coop, and there aren't much ways to do that. Being diagnosed with a PTSD is a pretty big sign that you're gonna have to coop soon or suffer even worse.

Unfortunately... He kinda refused to have me around as the sheer idea of having to coop with me and my problems, which I can coop myself rather well, on top of his own, show a mind that still does not accept reality diluted with chemicals and misconceptions the tools it has to avoid more pain.

He's a good man inside. He was being a better dad to a younger brother I have, he has with his 3d wife... He has a dad that isn't himself, like he was the first 15 years.
I was part of that a couple of years, thanks to my girlfriend and his wife, until I started to basically self destruct.

I'm doing a lot better now.

a reply to: Sinter Klaas

I am glad to know you have worked through this with intelligent reasoning and with help from those that are around for you, and support you in a positive way.

a reply to: InTheLight

Thank you. I'm not there yet. but most credits go to my mom. She was there when I needed help.
I don't want to have kids with my mom though