Obama administration unveils controversial emissions cap on power plants

a reply to: Indigo5

Those numbers won't change. We're getting all of China's and India's particulates blown overseas. The air will never be as clean as their standards.

If you have a DIY plan to lower emissions, the power company still wants their money:


ecowatch.com...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Indigo5

Those numbers won't change. We're getting all of China's and India's particulates blown overseas. The air will never be as clean as their standards.

Please...Ideology and BS really don't have a place when you are coughing up blood.

It's not complicated...Unless you think breathing Sulfur Dioxide and Mercury or drinking Benzene is just fine?

Try this...it's not China..And Appalachia is not know for being tree-hugging liberal territory..

Recently, 21 peer-reviewed scientific studies have confirmed the truth of those words. Not only has mountaintop removal permanently destroyed more than 500 Appalachian mountains, but people living near the destruction are 50% more likely to die of cancer and 42% more likely to be born with birth defects compared with other people in Appalachia.

ilovemountains.org...

as many as 60,000 individual cancer cases can be linked directly to exposure from MTR debris

www.desmogblog.com...

Self-reported cancer rates were significantly higher in the mining versus the non-mining area after control for respondent age, sex, smoking, occupational history, and family cancer history

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Christ...I have been around ATS long enough to know the Rah-Rah party politics mentality, but I have been a human long enough to know when that BS is atrocious. Good people...Born and bred Appalachians...Are getting used and dying for the Coal industry...and those folks are not Obamanites.

Heavily strip-mined communities in Appalachia are among the unhealthiest in the United States. In 2008, Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index ranked Kentucky and West Virginia—the two states where mountaintop removal is most prevalent—second to last and dead last respectively. also rank at the bottom of the index. Ranking by congressional districts show similar results-out of 435 counties, WV-03 and KY-05, where the practice mountaintop removal is most pervasive, ranks 432 and 435 ranks last, respectively.

appvoices.org...

For effs sake...it's not China that is killing these folks unless the air from China happens to amass by coincidence in the districts of Kentucky and Virginia with the WORST health in the COUNTRY and the HIGHEST concentration of Coal Mining!

Just try to give a sh*& about these people for moment before you chase your political parties propaganda of the week.

Mining has always been bad for your health, my great grandfather was a coal miner and had some stories to tell. Nobody denies that breathing pollution and particulates is bad either. However, a 30% reduction in carbon emissions will not even be noticeable from coal fired plants, as long as everything else pollutes just as bad. Hell regulations are pretty tight on coal fired plants as it is, other industry needs to be looked at as well. Paper mills, steel mills, etc.

Politics aside, people should have learned from the healthcare bill being passed, no corporation that makes money from charging the public money, will shoulder any cost or debt themselves, but will pass that onto their customers. I about passed out when our healthcare re-enrollment came out last week.

So yes, people will lose jobs, people will have higher utility bills, all to adhere to a bill that in the larger scheme of things will not amount to anything.

a reply to: xuenchen

According to you and this post, this will be a good thing for the koch brothers?

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Kali74

But wait !!

The Koch Brothers own pollution control companies !!!

My Gawd !! Now what?

Subsidiaries of Koch Chemical Technology Group design, manufacture, sell, install and service process and pollution control equipment, and provide engineering services for industries and municipalities worldwide. Subsidiaries include:

KOCH !!

I bet they make money from the U.S. Agenda21

a reply to: LDragonFire

Yes?

And?



Who's the joke *Really* on?

Get your checkbook balanced.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Now wouldn't it be the joke of the century IF the Koch Brothers come up with a miracle pollution control device that would meet these new proposed "standards" for coal fired plants (and all the others) !!

Watch them announce the thing shortly after these proposals become registered and codified and the profits are ripe for picking.

It will be the LOL moment of the millennia.

Maybe Harry Reid is in on it with them too !!!

How ironic would it be.

Koch companies manufacture a wide variety of products, including transportation fuels, building and consumer products, electronic connectors, fibers, fertilizers, membrane filtration and pollution control equipment.

Koch

Koch Industries

Koch Chemical Technology Group, LLC

They are LYING out of their snips.

Electricity costs 'will not increase'.

Co2 emissions 'will be reduced'.

Only a moron would believe that.

Electricity rates ARE GOING UP.

And what we do here has little effect around the globe.

Because the largest polluters are China, and India.

Posted this a few years ago:



YES WE DID.

a reply to: Indigo5
If you look into it, you will find that dust from the windstorms in Africa is deposited in the US. Particulates travel around the globe.
You surely won't deny that Chinese coal burning adds CO2 to our atmosphere? It is what they are talking about when they go on about 'carbon credits' is it not?

This is nothing but another gesture of the Obama administration to turn myth and lore in profitable scams for the elite few to capitalize, the elite, profits and the government gets a cut.

The milking cows as usual is working class. All with the power of the executive pen.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Indigo5
If you look into it, you will find that dust from the windstorms in Africa is deposited in the US. Particulates travel around the globe.
You surely won't deny that Chinese coal burning adds CO2 to our atmosphere? It is what they are talking about when they go on about 'carbon credits' is it not?

Silly person!

America is the only country that is causing global-climate-doom, therefore, we should be the only ones to cut back on CO2. Because if we cut back, then all will be saved.

YAY!

a reply to: beezzer

He, he, Beezzer thanks for cementing my comment, US is the only one pushing clima change, global warming, taxing cows fart and other things and lets cap and trade everything because in Americas is always somebody at the top that needs to keep oppressing the hard working tax payer, profits, profits and more profits.

I guess the working class makes too much money and they have to share with the profiteers and the government.

So what does the Obama admin propose we do? Prop up more failing green companies? Did we all forget about those money pits?

Coal has become far cleaner in recent times, yes it still pollutes, but emissions have been cut quite a bit. The problem is we have other nations that are starting to expand and use dirtier plants. Not sure if this is truth or not, but I heard that America is being greedy with it's clean coal technology and won't sell it to china.. why they wouldn't do this is beyond me, but just some food for thought.

This isn't about cutting c02 emissions, it's about bankrupting what is left of the working class.

a reply to: beezzer

America is the only country that is causing global-climate-doom, therefore, we should be the only ones to cut back on CO2. Because if we cut back, then all will be saved.

The largest creator of co2 emissions is the current administration, and the rest of the politicians on capitol shill.

All they do is blow hot air.

I saw this on the Guardian and this is what I posted:

"Didn't climate-gate exposed this fraud of man-made global warming already? They use this to wreck our economies as written in Agenda 21, and this will provide them with the tax to implement their global tyranny."

This was removed because it didn't abide by their "standards of the community". Sure, it's cencorship is what it is.

a reply to: xuenchen

Big taxes coming.

How will raising taxes help reach emissions goals?
Does your state own the factories?

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Compared to just a few years ago, our electricity bills are now considerably higher.

Huh. No carbon tax here and my electricity bill has been steadily increasing...along with my grocery bill...and gasoline...and water. Now that I think about it, nothing's done anything but get more expensive...ever.

Must be Obama.

well done Obama,
it is a move in the right direction but I fear it is too little too late.

And the argument of loss of jobs is irrelevant when they could get jobs building wind turbines or installing solar panels. Those jobs aren't going to shorten your life like coal mining would.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Where have you been? The carbon tax in Australia has been removed (unfortunately, given that it was necessary and was working).

Also the increase in electricity bills in Australia started well before the carbon tax was initiated, and had little to do with the carbon tax, it was mostly to do with rising network (i.e. distribution) costs:

www.esaa.com.au...

www.aph.gov.au...

www.aemc.gov.au...

How much thought and discussion goes into reducing network costs here? None. It's all about about a carbon tax that had a far smaller impact.

a reply to: beezzer

Are you really that naive to believe that the only country concerned about climate change is the US?

a reply to: Phage

How will raising taxes help reach emissions goals?

Econ 101.

The more things cost the less people buy.

IE use.

Forced 'conservation'.