Not One More !

a reply to: voyger2

Are you in the states or elsewhere?.
You opened a can of worms with this thread. Guns in the usa Are part of the culture just like a cup of tt is for us brits.
We don't have wild animals here in the uk which can hunt and kill you (mind you I have nearly fought a bloody big badger) so we don't need them.
We can get them if we want but most don't. ..different culture that's all
If I lived in the states I would get myself armed.
Oh and leave off with the onsults..really no point.

a reply to: boymonkey74

If I lived in the states I would get myself armed.

You seem to be bathed in reality also.
Notice how I didn't tell you that Brits are silly for not wanting to be armed.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

if there is no gun's you don't need one to defend yourself.

Why should you have a home invasion... maybe is because you are greedy and have a lot just for yourself...

ajph.aphapublications.org...

Results. After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05).

Conclusions. On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year, the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas. Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures.

originally posted by: voyger2
if there is no gun's you don't need one to defend yourself.

So if someone breaks in and they are armed with a knife how do I defend myself effectively if they are threatening me or my family's life?

Why should you have a home invasion... maybe is because you are greedy and have a lot just for yourself..

What? What kind of troll nonsense is this? Is that how home invasions work in your head? The criminals only break into the homes of the 'greedy'?

You know, after reading all of your inflammatory responses, I do not think you are here to actually have a conversation but just to poke people and stir the pot.

a reply to: voyger2
LMAO! So, I'm mentality ill because I hunt.

Now I'm greedy because I have too much stuff!

I shoot on two different gun leagues too, what classification do you have for that?

Matter of fact, tonight I have to shoot on my trap league. I'm a crazy bastard huh?

a reply to: voyger2

Why should you have a home invasion... maybe is because you are greedy and have a lot just for yourself...

Wow.
Now a person is greedy if they have something that someone else wants to steal.
Better get rid of all your belongings folks....
Otherwise it will be your own fault that your home is invaded.

Voyger2: What if the intruder is a rapist? Is the woman being 'greedy' if she wants to keep her body for someone other than the rapist???

a reply to: butcherguy

Yeah I must admit when new to ats I didn't understand why usaers had guns but after you good folk educated me I understood why.
Same as I hope folk understand why we don't want or need to be armed in the UK.
Just mutual respect for each others culture.
And then its all cool.

originally posted by: voyger2
Yes! those who use gun's are cowards. and yes, those o personally attacked me w/ insults because i have an opinion are mental ill. and there are lot's of post's w/ personal insults to me. In 19 pages I would say 18 pages.

I don't think anyone is 'attacking' you. What you have to realize is that this is a very important issue to a lot of people, and whether you agree with them or not, their reasons are just as legitimate to them as yours are to you. For you to call people cowards because they don't agree with your position is going to provoke a reaction, because you know what? You're attacking them.

a reply to: butcherguy

what if is an Alien? this is endless.

the point is still the same there are ways to ppl defend themselves, and it should be debatable.

Now the away things are over there you shouldn't expect a good outcome in the long run. you ppl don't even want to debate (in your society, not with me). just attack, offend and use the 2nd amendment as immutable and perfect law. times change.

knowing that in a urban area a guy : had on him a Glock 34 and two Sig P226 pistols. That he purchased them legally last year along with 400 rounds for the 3 guns and His magazines were all California legal and capped at 10 rounds and that All guns and ammo were 9mm.

this is nonsense.

originally posted by: schadenfreude
dp

Your lawn. No problem.
2nd line, here to feed you belt, or somebody like me.

originally posted by: voyger2
To now, that in urban area a guy : had on him a Glock 34 and two Sig P226 pistols. That he purchased them legally last year along with 400 rounds for the 3 guns and His magazines were all California legal and capped at 10 rounds and that All guns and ammo were 9mm.

And on the flip side, there are another 100 million more who own something similar and have never and will never commit a crime with their firearm.

To me, that's the crux of the issue. Is it justifiable to strip the rights of 99.99% of the public on the basis of the .01% who are thugs or lunatics? To me, the answer is quite clearly no. The correct answer would be to do more to find ways to prevent that .01% from acquiring weapons while preserving the rights of the law abiding 99.99%.

a reply to: voyger2

what if is an Alien? this is endless.

Seriously?
You are comparing a home invasion where a woman is raped to an alien entering a home?

You do realize that extraterrestrials roaming the Earth is viewed as unsubstantiated conjecture by science?

originally posted by: voyger2
the point is still the same there are ways to ppl defend themselves, and it should be debatable.

And we are still waiting for you to tell us what they are. But you are not here for debate, only to preach and pontificate about your putrid personal platform.

originally posted by: voyger2
this is nonsense.

Finally! I have found a point from you which I agree with wholeheartedly. We're starting to find some common ground, at least.

originally posted by: vor78

(..) there are another 100 million more who own something similar (..)
To me, that's the crux of the issue. Is it justifiable to strip the rights of 99.99% of the public on the basis of the .01% who are thugs or lunatics? To me, the answer is quite clearly no.

That's the problem. Maybe is 200 million, and you will never know you is going to be the lunatic. because metal illness doesn't come with a sign

There is a problem with mass shooting in Your society. And sticking heads on the sand will not, identify the problem, diagnose it and take measures to solve it.

You just freak when someone proclaims the need to stop, (like the father said) this madness / insanity.

And I will say this, maybe ppl who have power and courage to issue this problem, will be threaten to death by extremists gun owners and the companies that produce them.

a reply to: voyger2

you will never know you is going to be the lunatic.

Yeah.... Like let's say.... a cop?
An FBI agent?
A DHS agent?
An IRS agent?
An FDA agent?
There are many more, too many to list.... Government sanctioned killers, ready to 'pop', just like anyone else.

originally posted by: voyger2
And I will say this, maybe ppl who power and courage to issue this problem, will be threaten to death by extremists gun owners and the companies that produce them.

You and momof3 were the only ones to wish bodily harm on other posters in this thread.

Funny that, the blood thirsty gun owners act rationally and non-violently while the 'opposition' craves personal harm.

My mother successfully defended herself twice from armed robbery in the parking garage (Fed govt BTW) where she works. Countless others defend themselves every day from criminals, FAR outweighing the number of victims we read about. Are we to ignore ALL these people that would otherwise be victims too? Well are we? Police can't or won't do it so who will?

While it's unfortunate bad things happen once in a while, it seems completely irresponsible to ignore this fact and push to make our society defenseless. The good far outweighs the bad. Do you have any idea what life was like before firearms? The strong ran over the weak everywhere on the planet, now my mother can fend off a 300lb attacker with little effort.

Freedom is not without risk. Some of us understand the importance of being self reliant and vigilant not only towards criminals, but also towards tyranny. You can ignore how governments are trampling the people and their rights all you want, I don't choose to.

I've come to resent people who oppose MY rights to firearms because they threaten the safety of my family and my way of life in doing so. I will actively do whatever I can now to oppose your shortsighted views. None of your arguments hold water, none of the statistics support your views, you selectively whine about guns without the most basic understanding of why it's so important to have this right.

Holding up extreme examples on either side is dishonest when you ignore the rest, I expect this of the media and from most of the brainwashed public, but it doesn't excuse the damage it's attempting to cause our country.

NO, you can't have my guns and I won't respect any illegal laws that go against the constitution of the United States and guess what, OUR numbers are growing for a reason. Wake up.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The debate its for your society to make. I just wanted to post my opinion about what I think is wrong, hurts/kill people, and should be questioned by your own.

And actually I didn't know that you guys where so extremists on this issue. For me it was a shock, and sometimes, since I started this thread made me want to quit from this forum. Never ever I thought that you had inside so much anger and rage for those who ask questions about gun's...

I'm an outsider of course, I liked to be here and learn w/ you guys, but this thread made me rethink the values that really your culture defend. I was wrong, I admit.