Scientists to Congress - Aliens Exist.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Jungian
I certainly hope intelligent life finds Earth long before violent greedy monkeys finds them.

Even if we found life out there among the stars, unless it was around a very nearby star (under 20 light years away) it is unlikely we'd be able to visit it for more than a century, probably a couple of centuries so they'd be safe....

What if that's not the way the universe works?

What do you mean?

I think I mean that no matter what we try to tell ourselves, no matter the research and exploration and study and everything we do to try to understand the nature of the universe - we are utterly clueless and anything is possible.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Jungian
I certainly hope intelligent life finds Earth long before violent greedy monkeys finds them.

Even if we found life out there among the stars, unless it was around a very nearby star (under 20 light years away) it is unlikely we'd be able to visit it for more than a century, probably a couple of centuries so they'd be safe....

What if that's not the way the universe works?

What do you mean?

I think I mean that no matter what we try to tell ourselves, no matter the research and exploration and study and everything we do to try to understand the nature of the universe - we are utterly clueless and anything is possible.

That's fairly wrong. Anything is -not- possible. The universe does have a set of laws and we know fairly well how they work and that they are universal in nature.

Basic physics.

Without that understanding, you and I wouldn't be typing to each other on these devices

This is not some 'mystical' universe. Are there mysteries? Absolutely, but they are mysteries within a set of laws nature provides: physics, chemistry, probably biology as well.

Could we find something out there which defies these laws? Yes, but its very unlikely. If we did find something which defied these laws then we would go back and re-examine what we missed.

These laws by the way were discovered not by wishing them to be but through careful observations going back centuries.

a reply to: JadeStar


Actually, anything is possible and to think otherwise betrays and arrogance that I'm used to dealing with only in the religious.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: JadeStar


Actually, anything is possible and to think otherwise betrays and arrogance that I'm used to dealing with only in the religious.

Objective reality disagrees. You can think anything you want but that doesn't make it so.

Don't believe in gravity? Fine, let me throw you off a bridge and see how much your beliefs conform to reality.

Religion requires belief.

Science requires evidence.

a reply to: JadeStar

Ok then. What is the universe. What is outside of the universe. How many universes are there? What is empty space? What happens inside a black hole? Are there types of matter that we do not know of? Are there types of matter that we cannot comprehend? Do you think that humanity is the highest form of life in the universe? Is it possible for there to be sentient life within an atom? Is the universe an atom?

Finally - do you think it's possible that because you view this subject from a particular point of view - perhaps academia, but I'm not to know - that you can't see the trees for the forest, as they say?

Edit: Sorry, this is the 'finally' question. How do you know?

a reply to: JadeStar

I'm well aware that science requires evidence. Science has no evidence that the universe even exists except for the fact that we do and we perceive something.

Religion does require only belief, but science is the act of exploring - not the result. We are still exploring and don't know the answers. No matter how deluded we become and think we do.

a reply to: JadeStar

What most people dont seem to understand (not pointing the finger at you) is that the drake equation is not about the probability of alien life existing its "a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy".

If we could know the correct number to any of the last 4 variables (as long as they are more than 1) then essentially we would 100% there was alien life. The Drake Equation takes it for granted that we know alien life exists and we can quantify certain aspects of if (this of course is not true).

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: EnPassant


if life needs a spiritual intelligence to iniatiate it and evolve it, it will only arise in the universe wherever spiritual beings decide to start it. Evolution is a project overseen by spirits. I don't believe it just arises out of matter by itself.

Could be, but it sure seems we desire to be special. Not just a process of our universe, but the one thing that take something very special to create. The question why is that special something needed?

It is needed as an explanation because the idea that matter just gets up and starts walking by itself is not convincing.

a reply to: EnPassant

Evolution is a project overseen by spirits. I don't believe it just arises out of matter by itself.

Evolution is a process governed by chemistry as is the life forming process no spirits needed , all of the elements needed to create life exist in reality not in faith.
The elements that led to the evolution of mankind are universal , all life needs is a suitable home to gain a foothold and evolution will do the rest , from tiny acorns great oaks will grow.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
The scary thing would be that there is no other life in the Universe

Won't religious folk, like creationists, see that as a positive?

No superior intelligence to tell them how the universe was really formed and so on.

OHH MY !! Are people that ignorant

That Science is not 100 % sure there is life out there in this Galaxy or the Universe for that matter

Of Course there is ! yeah the Creator ( Pick One ). Just only focused on this little solar system out of Billions in this Galaxy let alone the Universe with Billions of Galaxy s For sure. yet again.. religion put on the Stupper on People sorry Galileo Narrow Minds still have a hold of their.. their religions as they... Worship Beings considered Gods NOT from this Earth... in View of a Magical Supernatural realm .. and is their star systems way older then ours ? say Billion years older ? That May have Planets in the Goldie Lock Zone ...

Governments is softening the Blow as it looks ..

Just Saying..


I think There for I am ...

We of this Planet are still in the Crib. we are not Ready to play with the Big Boys



pretty much as i see it... if They from there ... heavens dimensions distant planet and so forth... came here .. with Thousands Millions to Billion of Years advancement's of Technology then us ? We did go to the moon in 66 years right ? from Wright Brothers to landing on the Moon... Inspired by a sci fi book made in the mid 19th century ( Verne ) to get there..

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: EnPassant

Evolution is a project overseen by spirits. I don't believe it just arises out of matter by itself.

Evolution is a process governed by chemistry as is the life forming process no spirits needed , all of the elements needed to create life exist in reality not in faith.

Life is more than the sum of its parts. It is a complex order.

originally posted by: JadeStar
Religion requires belief.
Science requires evidence.

But there is also the philosophy of science and this requires belief. Science is used to back up belief systems. Science itself - in the most bare bones definition of the word - has nothing to say about belief. It simply observes and learns.

Science is like Life. It simply evolves as we keep learning more and more. And more often than not, we found out we were wrong. But LHC has validated some old theories, which is reassuring, to me anyway, that humans (at least the smart ones) do accomplish great things in science still. And continue to do so.

originally posted by: LA1IMPALA
You know the Aliens are probably 100,000's of years ahead of us. Probably though at one time they never had saucers. They probably had their Orville and Wilbur Wright had some sort of flying contraptions and advancements in aviation. If they breathe air and are carbon based like us they may have at one point in the far far distant past internal combustion engines. If that is the case coming here would be like a living museum. Then again maybe we are just in a SIM game in some computer 50,000 years from now where they have been able to model the brain in software. Maybe that is why we only use 10% of our brains, LOL less code to write. Maybe if you turn around really quick before the video card has a chance to do a redraw.

.....you turned around didn't you

They probably had their Orville and Wilbur Wright had some sort of flying contraptions and advancements in aviation. If they breathe air and are carbon based like us they may have at one point in the far far distant past internal combustion engines

Then again maybe we are just in a SIM game in some computer 50,000 years from now where they have been able to model the brain in software. Maybe that is why we only use 10% of our brains, LOL less code to write. Maybe if you turn around really quick before the video card has a chance to do a redraw.

.....you turned around didn't you

Maybe that is why we only use 10% of our brains, LOL less code to write.

Then again maybe we are just in a SIM game in some computer 50,000 years from now where they have been able to model the brain in software

Holographic universe theory


Maybe they DID ?

Maybe that is why we only use 10% of our brains, LOL less code to write.

HUH>>>?? it all there its just Dormant ..& Locked not firing all at once !

Tho once I heard a about Quote from Einstein say if we used all of our brain capacity and energy 100% we would become Light.. or our Heads that is ( Halo ) ? LOL well maybe that's why what we call Angels and Spiritual beings of of Light & Enlightenment which INDIA if very Fond of ..

Genetic code
en.wikipedia.org...

Second Code Uncovered Inside the DNA

Discovery deepens our understanding of the human genome
science.time.com...

Lol, did I hear her say there was "over a trillion stars in our universe"? Well, I guess she isn't wrong, but there are over a trillion stars in some galaxies, and there are a couple hundred billion galaxies at least, according to most estimates. Who the hell wrote whatever was on that teleprompter? She sure as hell kept stumbling over the words enough.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Jungian
I certainly hope intelligent life finds Earth long before violent greedy monkeys finds them.

Even if we found life out there among the stars, unless it was around a very nearby star (under 20 light years away) it is unlikely we'd be able to visit it for more than a century, probably a couple of centuries so they'd be safe....

What if that's not the way the universe works?

"Travelling without moving" Coming soon.

originally posted by: EnPassant
Life is more than the sum of its parts. It is a complex order.

Quite so. Because there are dead things. Creatures that are completely intact with body structures and DNA and all the things apparently necessary to live, but they're dead.

So it's easy for people to say that if you get the right kind of chemicals together in some protein bubbles and shake them long enough of zap them with enough electricity they're somehow magically going to form living things. But that don't make it true.

I tend to think the only way around the argument is to recognize that time is not linear, and that it's filled with holes that are capable of sucking things out of their reality and tossing them anywhere and everywhere in the universe. And seeing as how the universe wouldn't exist without some kind of conscious, living thing giving it reality, I keep going back to thinking that thanks to an ever-expanding time loop, life has always existed, and will always exist. Although there's a good chance that is just "us" making all this happen. Spreading ourselves out very thin through space and time.

Hard to prove, of course. But it's a possible explanation that doesn't rely on God or aliens.

a reply to: PhoenixOD

I agree with all of your replies. Like you said, we just don't know one way or the other. But we know what has a higher probability, don't we? Would it not be a greater leap of faith to think the entire rest of everything in existence is devoid of life?

As far as the Drake Equation, you are absolutely correct, we can only plug in variables based on conjecture. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure we can diagnose any of those variables with a 100% degree of certainty.

originally posted by: JohnTheSmith
a reply to: PhoenixOD

I agree with all of your replies. Like you said, we just don't know one way or the other. But we know what has a higher probability, don't we? Would it not be a greater leap of faith to think the entire rest of everything in existence is devoid of life?

As far as the Drake Equation, you are absolutely correct, we can only plug in variables based on conjecture. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure we can diagnose any of those variables with a 100% degree of certainty.

True. The Seti people have no right to say 100%. That can only come from proof of aliens. It is a very crass thing to say and is obviously aimed at securing funding. Personally I think SETI is redundant 'cos they are already here.