Scientists to Congress - Aliens Exist.

A big yawn. Really. It's a near certainty, of course. It always amazes me when people say so as if their declaration is somehow profound and that they are imparting wisdom to the crowd that they have discovered through superior intellect, often said with a haughty air as if everyone else is somehow burdened with only earth-bound thoughts and couldn't possibly have figured this out for themselves. It's also a near certainty (with a carrot out so as to acknowledge that it's not precisely 100%) that everyone here knows that.

Put another way, if NASA came to us all with one of their infamous "We have a major announcement" press conferences and actually had something useful to say, like the Rover entered a cave and found a pond of Martian water in which they found albino fish-like creatures swimming around aimlessly in the dark, would anyone here be surprised to the point of amazement and declare, "THIS changes EVERYTHING!!!!!"

No, it doesn't. Y'all knew there was a near certainty that there is life elsewhere in the Universe. Why be surprised if you actually find it? We were looking for it, right? Because we kind of knew it was probably there, right? So if you stick a hook in the water and catch a fish, well, that's what you were hoping for in the first place.

So....this rather begs the question. is THAT the question really being asked? If the answer to the question, "Is there life elsewhere?" already has an answer: Most likely yes, then why ask it? According to ATS, there are several answers:

1) Because the scientists need funding and think this will get it for them.
2) Aliens are here because Greer and Meier and Romanek have told us they are and some ATS people are dead certain this is correct because maybe they have seen them themselves.
3) There actually is some credible evidence of intelligent life elsewhere.

Only the third possibility is even remotely interesting.

originally posted by: eManym
Lets see, there are 500 billion galaxies with 500 billion stars each. That's 500 billion to the power of 2 stars in the universe. So what is the probability of intelligent life forming on anyone one of those stars? If its 500 billion to the power of 20 to 1 then there is not a very likely chance that intelligent life has formed anywhere else by but here on planet Earth.

Uhm.......no. I'm afraid your math is a bit off.

500 billion (500,000,000,000) galaxies with 500 billion stars each would be:

500,000,000,000 x 500,000,000,000 = 250,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Or 25 x 10^22 stars or 250 million quadrillion stars.

Now go back and check your odds again.

I used to be certain alien civilisations were abundant throughout the universe (multiverse-whatever).

Now I feel with what we know about subatomic physics, how strange it is , how reality seems to rely on a sentient being making observations.. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .

Make me think all that space is just an extremely clever, unreachable, illusion.


Who else thinks Seth Shostack is probably an alien?

originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: EnigmaAgent

Well, to play devil's advocate or water bearer (depending on the culture), the two scientists were appearing before Congress in order to obtain more funding and keep their children clothed and eating. So they do have a bias in favor of "sure, life abounds, and if you give us another funding cycle we may just find it for ya!"

You referring to climate change scientists?

when they sailed to america (whatever it was called)
they wear not as stupid as to think
they would find NO life on land.

so why are some of you 101% that they
will never find life on an infant number of planets?

you do know that life on earth was seeded
from bacteria in asteroids and comets.

First off I'm a skeptic science guy. I think alien life is everywhere but question the UFO theories and flat out doubt the claims of specific alien races influencing history or modern life.


However I did some something very telling in my opinion on one of the universe type shows that had an interview with the SETI guy the OP is about.

In it he said the most commonly asked question is.

If he was to identify undenighably proof of an advanced alien race. Who is he supposed to call first?

His answer.... No one. Not the dept of defense. Not nasa. Not the president ( and what politition is passing up the chance to give the first contact speech).


That's crazy the government has put millions of dollars into it and didn't think it was important enough to leave a number to call.


Well since you can't be sure there isn't intelligent life out there. You can't prove a negative. Then either they know there is life and know SETI isn't looking in the right place or white haired what's his face is lying.

a reply to: PhoenixOD

I often agree with your posts and give them flags or stars, but I don't see anything bad or wrong with this. Heck, I'll give you a star just because you're a star poster . Yes, they are trying to get research money. But it seems logical enough to keep looking for intelligent life.

They are (in my opinion) simply planting an idea in the heads of those who would be utterly shocked to discover that the Universe is teaming with life - one of the many seeds that need to be planted before real disclosure can even be considered.
Just ask the Jesuit Priests what they are doing with Project L.U.C.I.F.E.R. in Arizona - Nothing will be divulged until the Church has prepared their introduction to the millions of Christians throughout the world in order that they can minimise panic and mostly so that they can stay in control. - 'Exo Vaticana - P Etruscan Romanus - The Astonishing Plan for the Arrival of an Alien Saviour'

'Once the "Religious content" originating from outside the earth "has been verified" they will have to conduct "A re-reading of the Gospel" Inclusive of the new data ....... '

They have to get this right and will take as long as they need to.

a reply to: Wiseupall

That's kinda jumping from a to m and skipping all the letters in between ain't it? With d not being where it should either. Lol

There is another way to look at it, through numbers again.

All life here on Earth is made up of the most common and abundant elements in the universe: CHON, Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen.

I know there can be speculation about life being based on other elements, but for now, and since that is purely speculative, let us stick with "life as we know it", since we know it worked here.

Take 5 dice, like the game "Yahtzee", one of the things you need to get in the game is a 5 of a kind, known as a Yahtzee. Now in the game, any 5 of a kind will work: all five 1s, all five 2s, etc.

However, let us make it more difficult. Let us say that in order for life as we know it to happen, you have to get all sixes.

So, one dice for each of the CHON elements and then the 5th dice is for "has planet, habitable zone, conditions just right. I know some might say "Not fair! should be a dice for each of those!" but I'm trying to make it "hard" for life to happen.

So......in order for life to happen at another star system, we need to roll a Yahtzee of Sixes, and ONLY that. Anything else and life didn't not happen for some reason (wrong kind of star, no planets, planets in wrong place, not the right conditions, etc, etc).

So what are the odds of rolling an all sixes 5 of a kind in a single roll of the dice?

1/7776

One out of 7,776 combinations. That means the percentage is 0.0128%

Hmmmmmmm.........sounds like pretty low odds.

But if we apply those odds to 500 billion stars in a single galaxy....out of those 500 billion, it's possible to have 64,300,411 to form life.

That might sound like a large number, but look at it again: it's saying 64 million out of 500 billion. Another way to look at it would be 64 out of 5,000.

Now let us apply it to the universe: and we get 32,150,205,761,316,872,427

Again, it's a very simplistic way to look at it......and that's saying life that is like that here on Earth. As others have speculated, those odds do not even take in the idea of life based on other elements forming......

a reply to: eriktheawful

So? We still don't know the exact numbers...

So all we are really doing is assuming... Drake equation has never done anything for me, only way we will ever know if there is life out there is if we find it, or it finds us.

-SAP-

Well, mathematically, it's safe to ASSUME that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe.

There's still zero irrefutable proof.

This reminded me of the guy from Ancient Aliens, who said something along the lines of "is it even possible that blah blah blah??......yes it is!"

a reply to: EnigmaAgent


Of course intelligent life exists, the cosmos is teaming with intelligent life and not just earth like planets either. They might as well announce there is life in our oceans. I see no point in telling this to congress after all they dont listen to the wants and needs of the people anyway. They answer only to the corporations and banks. Unless aliens are a interest of the elite congress will turn on deaf ears.

originally posted by: oldetimehockey4
Well, mathematically, it's safe to ASSUME that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe.

There's still zero irrefutable proof.

This reminded me of the guy from Ancient Aliens, who said something along the lines of "is it even possible that blah blah blah??......yes it is!"

We all ready have proof, it is a mathmatical certainty. Humans think too much of tangible things things they can see smell touch. Things they can look at behind glass at a museum. Its just a matter of acceptance not so much having a cup of coffee with an alien. Because when that does happen it is scoffed at and ridiculed. It is a mathmatical certainty.


Logic says yes and yes

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
while i agree that the chances are that there is life else where in the universe.
there is no way they can say for certain. i have yet to hear any credible evidence that a intelligent life from has came up to any one and said hey how ya doing, or any radio or any other from of contact.

so there can not be a 100% certainty that other life exists.

It IS a mathmatical certainty hence they CAN say for certain. See drakes equasion. You cant argue with math. en.wikipedia.org...


We did not split the atom on theory alone

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
If you forget the science for a moment and look at math, the odds are in overwhelming favor for the existence of alien life, almost to the point of certainty.

Let's take what we know already; we exist so the odds are better than zero. And even if our sun is only one in a ten billion that harbors a planet that can support life, that means that at least ten extraterrestrial civilizations could inhabit our galaxy alone, and there are tens of thousands of galaxies...

I believe that there are thousands of civilizations out there, but the sheer distance between stars and galaxies means we'll never meet most of them.

While the probability for life is very high, there is no way to calculate the probability of what we would consider intelligent life.

Can't be calculated, since we only have one example.

For all we know, intelligence arose only once.

Harte

Statistically speaking, they can assume. But space is something the common human mind has a hard time wrapping their heads around.

I think our scientific minds and resources should be spent on trying to solve our problems here on Earth first. Once we become balanced in nature, with clean renewable energy for everyone, we can dick around with some telescopes and search for aliens. a reply to: EnigmaAgent

originally posted by: SonOfTheLawOfOne

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Xtrozero

Life on earth happened rather quickly after earth solidified, and earth has set life back to basically simple life form a number of time for it to just explode back on the scene with a plethora of higher life forms. This basically suggests that when conditions are right life will happen.

No its doesn't suggests that when conditions are right life will happen. If that was all we needed then we would be able to make artificial life in laboratories. Also if that were the case new life would be springing up all the time here on earth where the conditions are perfect every day.

What is does prove is that the life that started on our planet is very determined to survive as it has developed into every living thing on this planet.

I directly disagree with your statement, and without calling you ignorant, would ask that you show something to support your claim.

When conditions are right, life does happen, and we have created it in a lab.

You don't get to invent your own facts.

Ribonucleotides are no more alive than table salt.

Harte

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: Xtrozero

Life on earth happened rather quickly after earth solidified, and earth has set life back to basically simple life form a number of time for it to just explode back on the scene with a plethora of higher life forms. This basically suggests that when conditions are right life will happen.

No its doesn't suggests that when conditions are right life will happen. If that was all we needed then we would be able to make artificial life in laboratories. Also if that were the case new life would be springing up all the time here on earth where the conditions are perfect every day.

What is does prove is that the life that started on our planet is very determined to survive as it has developed into every living thing on this planet.

How do you figure life came to be then ?

Are you saying we and other species did not evolve ? Are you a creationist ? I had to ask.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
while i agree that the chances are that there is life else where in the universe.
there is no way they can say for certain. i have yet to hear any credible evidence that a intelligent life from has came up to any one and said hey how ya doing, or any radio or any other from of contact.

so there can not be a 100% certainty that other life exists.

What one person thinks doesn't make their belief true for everyone else though.. I know there are many people who seem to think it does, which is a lot on the naïve side of things.
I have seen evidence myself that does prove to me with 100% certainty they have been here already, and are still here in droves. This only fits me though, since it is improvable to most others, simply because testimony can't be verified 100% by anyone, unless you know and trust the source 100%.

You said that because you have never seen evidence to prove 100% certainty, and no one else has proven it, and so it is not factual for anyone.
Using that same logic I could say: "I saw evidence supporting the existence of alien life and knew it was 100% true, so it is now a fact for everyone"..
You don't need a consensus to know all the things you currently know that are true, are indeed facts, do you? Of course not..
Saying it the way you did is actually a method that the military has used (to get us thinking this way), when publically forced to make statements regarding issues like this, which they have been doing for decades, and using every trick there is to keep the public as uninformed as possible..