Chicago police face overwhelming gun crime as 45 people shot over weekend

a reply to: marg6043

but countries with tighter gun-control have had a noticably lower number of mass shootings compared to the US and other countries where guns are more freely owned

So what you are saying, if I hear you guys correctly, is that the conservatives point to lower gun crimes in early 2014 as proof of concealed carry being effective, and liberals point to the new stats as proof of concealed carry failing, yet concealed carry isn't even happening yet, because the city has until at least July before it has to start issuing permits?
Am I missing something?

I worked in the various rail yards of Chicago for years. All of them are in terrible neighborhoods. I'll tell you that there is no way that gun crime will be increased as a direct result of concealed carry being implemented. Nor will it reduce gun crime in the short term (although there may be anecdotal evidence that long term trends will show decline). Criminals will always have access to guns. Illegal guns are nearly impossible to keep off of the streets and out of the hands of someone who is determined to get one.

a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

And that is why you have mass stabbings in places like China. If someone is hell bent on inflicting harm they will find a way. Gun, knife, bat, tire iron, even a vehicle.

It's not the weapon but the intent and motivation for the attacker. America is breeding a society that thrives on violence.

A few of my childhood favorites... Bugs and Elmer, Coyote and the Road Runner, and most sadistic of all, Tom and Jerry.

From childhood we are desensitized to violence whether you know it or not. Those are just a few samples and I'm sure the level of violence on Saturday morning cartoons now makes those seem silly. But it starts younger than we all realize.

originally posted by: Everlastingknowitall
Criminals will always have access to guns. Illegal guns are nearly impossible to keep off of the streets and out of the hands of someone who is determined to get one.

That's why the Gun Control Crowd will fail. Keeping guns out of the hands of law abiding Citizens shouldn't be their focus.

Look at Detroit, we have had a good run of homeowners shooting and killing would be home invaders, they aren't prosecuting any of the homeowners. The Chief of Police here is applauding their actions. I can virtually guarantee that would be robbers are now taking that into account now. "Do I really want to die for breaking into this house?" That kind of deterrence eventually sinks into to even the super dense criminal element.

And violent people will always find a way to cause harm. I mean, we just had that 16 year old kid who stabbed a bunch of his schoolmates. Evil will always find a way if a way can be found.

originally posted by: Everlastingknowitall
And violent people will always find a way to cause harm. I mean, we just had that 16 year old kid who stabbed a bunch of his schoolmates. Evil will always find a way if a way can be found.

Right on the $.

The Rwandan genocide was carried out with machetes and garden tools. 500,000 - 1,000,000 hacked and clubbed to death.

Evil uses whatever tool it can find, be it an assault rifle or bath tub full of water.

originally posted by: FirePiston

originally posted by: SalientSkivvy
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

ummmm Wow, that was just a little bit racist...
Because you know, white people always raise their kids to be just perfect..

Here we go... Calling facts racist.. Until people wake up to the truth it will never change.
Firepiston

Calling facts racist? Really?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
Where are the parents? Where are the black fathers? Chicago is the way it is because of black culture. Until blacks stand up and take back their neighborhoods and raise their damn kids it will only get worse. Having grown up in St. Louis I know what it's like living knee deep in inner city black culture. I blame soley black fathers !!!!!!!

How is that not racist? White people murder all the time as well.. As do every other race...
I don't see why skin colour had to be brought in...???

a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

Correction: There are some countries with tighter laws that have less gun violence. There are also some countries with much tighter laws that are worse than the US with gun violence. It's more of a culture thing really. Most of the violent crime are in urban zones in the US. Urban zones with tight gun laws to boot. Then there are places in the country with very loose gun laws where there is no gun crimes at all.

obama's home town.

dead fish's town.

imagine that.

i'd have the BLM go in there like they did at the bundy ranch.

oh wait! bundy was white! ok, forget it.

a reply to: Astroart

guns are far more effective though, meaning you don't have to go through all the difficulty of hyping up an ethnic majority into slaughtering a minority. (which is what happened in Rwanda). this was not due in any real way to effective gun control, but the relative poverty of the population.


a reply to: TKDRL
true; gun control seems to be ineffective in countries where the law is unelegant/really uneven; and where the country has issues with organized crime and smuggling, poor social safety nets/little economic mobility...

Overall I think its probably a combination of factors; most restrictions on gun ownership seem to come not as a concern about streetcrime, rather about crimes of passion or massacres committed by the emotionally disturbed.

a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

You don't call the constant glorification of gangs, murder, and "Thug Life" message we're bombarded with by all possible media and entertainment outlets as a "hyping up" of an ethnic minority?

Well It is. It just took a little longer to accomplish because we didn't have deeply divided tribal affiliations (no black tribes here) in America.

So they made some.... I present to you the Crips and Bloods.

Here's two examples of how you use the media to contaminate the mind and plant seeds of destruction that take 2 generations to flower 12-16 yr old shooters.

Crips and Bloods. This was a local beef that started in L.A. and spread across the country like wildfire in less than 5 years. Just as fast as KKK membership after Birth of A Nation. How so fast you ask?

The Media. The media will also say it was crips and blood members traveling across the continent spreading the good word in places like Denver, Little Rock, Lakota Iowa. The GD's in Chicago were around before either of them but without that nationwide media coverage they couldn't go as main stream as the crips and bloods. Both gangs (each) gained more national members without ever having the recognized leadership or code of governance that the GDs have had since the 70s. How? People saw it on the news and decided to do it to. People saw the movie Colors and though it was cool, people listened to Ice T and NWA and wanted to duplicate it.

Little Rock ain't no joke, Denver ain't no joke, Seattle ain't no joke is what the local minorities said. We can put in just as much work as the gangs in Compton, South Central, Watts.

That's how you hype the masses into committing genocide. Combine that with a war on drugs started under Reagan and supplied by North featuring racially biased sentences, access to illegal weapons and glorification of alcohol consumption. We're seeing the 2nd generation after that. It's out of control and the offenders are only getting younger.

It's no surprise what's happening to 11-14 yr old fatherless boys who are fed this crap through music, movies and media as well as 90% of the people they interact with and in some rare cases, by the fathers themselves.

The KKK did this with Birth of a Nation in 1915. Clan membership jumped to 3,000,000–6,000,000 and peaked in 1920–1925 period.
Five years after the movie saw the biggest growth in size of the KKK. Media hyping works.

I lived in Chicago for 14 years. but lived on the border my entire life.
Still do.

I just watched a Chicagoland episode in which it was touted that Chicago's crime rate is the lowest since the early 60's.

The I changed my underpants, having soiled them from laughing.

I live right here, and have to travel, what a joke!

a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

No no not at all I don't believe there is anything wrong with training anyone to use a gun except for children under a certain age. I believe that instead of making all simi auto guns being made illegal and thus preventing the law abiding citizens from getting them not the criminals. Is unjust and violates are amendment rights. That's my option on it.

a reply to: Astroart

you brought up the example of the rwandian genocide, It was carried out by the ethnic majority of that country (Hutu) against the minority (Tutsi). Hence the use of melee weapons was combined with a massive numerical advantage, as well as elements of surprise. (most of the knifing incidents had a similar deal).
you clearly didn't understand that.

Street gangs have existed in the lower-classes of cities since at least the industrial revolution, if not before. These street gangs have had a history of violence, rioting, muder, shootouts. In the past it wasn't even due to "thug culture" as you say, rather it was due to the particular social and economic pressures being placed onto the lower classes.

a reply to: jashn20002000
I'm not in favor of banning all guns either; nor all semi-automatic guns.
I don't share the broad interpretation of the second amendment either, however it's ultimately up to the supreme court to interpret it, (and they're interpreting it in a pro-gun manner presently).

I think a tiered system, like what I know they have in france (you can purchase black-powder/muzzle-loading rifles in france without a liscense from what I've heard), where guns that require greater responsiblity on the part of the gun-owner require more proof that the gun owner is responsible. This includes training, background checks, etc.

as for self-defense.. a lot of what those who hold the "pro-gun" stance seem to weave what essentially (to me) come across as "suburban rambo's" or something of that nature. I understand using a gun to defend your home, I don't understand needing a 20-30 shot magazine, nor do I understand why there seems to be such a facination with lethality, stopping power, and the like, when you're mostly concerned about stupid criminals and meth/crack-heads, and not special-forces or swat teams, or whatever. though I'm probably missing something there.

a reply to: NonsensicalUserName


community.seattletimes.nwsource.com...

I was in the group with lil Rob ( Robert Sidwell) at Raineer Beach High School when he shot Don Don ( Donnell Duncan) in the head, shoulder, neck and chest with a snub nose .38 Smith and Wesson revolver from 15 yards away aiming with his left eye and firing across his body with his right hand because his right eye was "lazy" due to fetal alcohol syndrome, which we constantly teased him about. All he wanted to be was a thug, at 13!

I know what it takes to inspire a teenage shooter, I was one, I influenced this one. I live with that daily.

The 1st shot hit him right above his left eye and he started dropping. Lil Rob put 3 more rounds in the upper torso of a dropping target with a revolver, shooting at 45 degree incline as Donnel was on the 3nd set of steps about 20 ft higher and 15 yards further away.

Life changing night..... not just for Don Don and Lil Rob either. Me too. Talk about etched in memory, I was 15, this was branded.

I speak from experience, not imagination or what I've read online or in books, or blogs.

community.seattletimes.nwsource.com...



CHECK THE LINKS!

originally posted by: LadySkadi

originally posted by: BlubberyConspiracy
a reply to: LadySkadi

I'm sure the finance district would be largely consisted of extractors who will retire in another state of their demographic preference. Basically non-contributors...

Gang related violence -How's that for contributuion?

Gang violence is a side-effect, corporate scum are a cause.

Nothing suspicious about all this transpiring while Rahm Emmanuel is mayor, right?

a reply to: Xcathdra

The politicians want to amplify all the noise about gun violence in order to make it so that innocent families can't protect themselves while keeping quiet all the stories about good people using guns to protect themselves, pure absurdity.

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: marg6043

but countries with tighter gun-control have had a noticably lower number of mass shootings compared to the US and other countries where guns are more freely owned

That is not true. Countries with tighter gun control laws usually have WAY MORE mass shootings of people by the government themselves than free countries, and way more innocent people victimized by organized criminals that are usually somehow funded or work for those governments. Plus most the mass shootings in the USA have been setup by the government in cooperation with psychiatrists that work for the department of defense and they are conducting these attacks in places where common good people are not able to be armed. Its obviously not a coincidence.

The politicians KNOW that gun rights make a society much safer for the good people. By pretending they don't know this, they are hoping the gullible people will actually believe this whopper of a fallacy in order to spread the lie to others. ITS NOT WORKING PEOPLE ARE ARMING THEMSELVES AND THEIR LOVED ONES showing them how to responsibility use a weapon for self defense.

If you believe that taking guns away from law abiding tax paying citizens while guns,mafias, cartels, gangs, pedophiles, thieves, rapists, and murderers proliferate (& they will always find weapons because our government sold weapons to the whole World) you might want to get your head checked because it doesn't make sense. The people should have the guns NOT THE GOVERNMENT. The government works for the people. The people should not slave for the government, especially a corrupt one.

People that love their family show them the responsibility and right to defend their lives not the right of criminals to take their lives.

Not believing in guns will NEVER guarantee you or your family from being victimized by some criminal that does believe in them so learn to defend yourself so that others around you will learn what it means to NOT DEPEND ON GOVERNMENT FOR SAFETY. It's a lie from hell to believe that a corrupt central government cares about the well being of the people when the opposite has been proven OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

a reply to: rickymouse What is honest? What is normal?

EVERY citizen is honest and normal until they are not--and the "abnormality and dishonesty" can occur AFTER they have already bought many guns. The fact is gun control is a joke. WHY?

Because many times, guns that are used in crimes are not purchased or used by the original buyer but by their kid or spouse or a friend or the guns are stolen, or bought at a flea market or private sale or from the back of a car--all legal venues that do not require background checks.

People rarely think through passionate issues--if they did, then they would realize that if all gun shops and industries closed tomorrow, there are still enough guns and ammunition in play that could kill every US citizen several times over.

They would also realize that most gun sales are not at the stores but in private--ask anyone who has committed a crime and they could (if they wanted to) tell you at least 10 places they could get a gun and not one would require a back ground check or other measure.

As for voluntary or forced confiscation, good luck with that--for every place a government could look (if they even had the manpower) there are trillions of places they would never be able to find or look for guns. The country is way too large and there are too many places to hide things.

The toothpaste is out of the tube--good luck getting it back in at this late date....