Russian Jet Provokes U.S. Military Naval Ship

reply to post by Reinmax


LMAO. Then why did all those ex-Soviet satellites leave the "worker's paradise"??

Did Russia kick them out? I knew many Ukrainians, being half "Uke" myself, seen their meetings in North America, playing the Ukrainian national anthem while standing at attention. Pining for the day that the Ukraine would be free. (1976)

But no, what I say is all crap. They love what was done to them and their land. (Chernobyl)...all America's doing.

Any angst to the U.S. is for it's betrayal. It's none support when it was promised to them in exchange for giving up their nukes.

Some Ukes may see Putin as a savior, for all I know. A "man". Someone who will "protect them".

Like I said believe what you want.

But a continued take-over of the Ukraine is going to bite Putin in the ass. Not due to NATO or EU or the U.S.. It will become their European version of Afghanistan. Another Chechnya.....

Partisans...apparently now labeled U.S. "dogs".....

If it were a Russian warship in let's say the golf of Mexico. Would we still call an act of war if an American F-16 made a flyover...?
Guess not...

reply to post by beltemps


The only people calling it an act of war are the press.

Zaphod58
reply to post by beltemps

 

The only people calling it an act of war are the press.

This maybe so but the USA sanctions on Russia is an act or war and all the arm twisting behind closed door that the USA is doing in Europe will come back and bite them on the bum.

Putin is highly regarded by a lot of people in Europe which is a lot more than can best said for Obama and his banker friends.

nwtrucker
reply to post by Reinmax

 

LMAO. Then why did all those ex-Soviet satellites leave the "worker's paradise"??

Did Russia kick them out? I knew many Ukrainians, being half "Uke" myself, seen their meetings in North America, playing the Ukrainian national anthem while standing at attention. Pining for the day that the Ukraine would be free. (1976)

But no, what I say is all crap. They love what was done to them and their land. (Chernobyl)...all America's doing.

Any angst to the U.S. is for it's betrayal. It's none support when it was promised to them in exchange for giving up their nukes.

Some Ukes may see Putin as a savior, for all I know. A "man". Someone who will "protect them".

Like I said believe what you want.

But a continued take-over of the Ukraine is going to bite Putin in the ass. Not due to NATO or EU or the U.S.. It will become their European version of Afghanistan. Another Chechnya.....

Partisans...apparently now labeled U.S. "dogs".....

This. What people seem to forget was that part of the deal to convince the Ukraine to give up the world's third largest nuclear arsenal after the fall of the Soviet Union, was that we promised to support them defensively if they disarmed. We are not involved out of a whim, or "greedy banksters," or petro-dollars, but rather as a fulfillment of a contractual obligation.

nwtrucker
reply to post by VirusGuard

 

Anyone who actually believes that the U.S., with it's current "leadership", has ANYTHING to do with the Ukrainian situation is out of their minds or actively being paid to dissemble by vested interests.

The U.S. has failed to act positively in Syria, Iran and now, the Ukraine.

The fascist label on the Ukrainian gov't is pure propaganda, the U.S. "dogs" is garbage and ALL of this is created by and for the benefit of Putin, himself. The Ukrainian people LOATH Russia, have been working/fighting for independence for decades. Putin now controls 11 cities in eastern Ukraine...all after the Crimean take-over with it's "justifications". The new justifications are "American Dogs", hostages.

Obama hasn't the guts to do anything remotely like is being portrayed. He is at war-albeit politically- in his own nation, is shrinking the military budget, cancelling programs-ie. hell-fires, every single aspect of Obama actions are in direct contradiction to any adventurism in the Ukraine.

Is the U.S. a angel? Hell, no! However, it's time some of you recognize that the U.S. isn't the sole inventor/owner of B.S..

If you wish not to see Putin as taking advantage of the weakest U.S. administration in history....your blind. If you see Putin as some freedom loving idealist...well...change your meds..or get on some.

By the way, I'M half Russian and half Ukrainian by descent.

Personally, I don't really care if you disagree with this post, cite or post "links" saying otherwise or not.

It's something that needed to be said.

Unlike the other two, we actually have a treaty obligation to help support Ukraine which was part of the promise to convince them to give up their nuclear arsenal.
Budapest memorandum

reply to post by VirusGuard


But it was perfectly fine for Russian troops to enter the Crimea before the referendum right? That's not an act of war, even though the Crimea isn't part of Russia.

Oh wait, let me guess, the US was behind that too right?

reply to post by Zaphod58


"Oh wait, let me guess, the US was behind that too right? "

No not at all its just a case that Russia has decided to stand its ground and I cannot say that I blame them.

reply to post by VirusGuard


And this? You have no problem with that either? That's just "Russia standing its ground?"

So let me get this straight. The US goes into another country uninvited, and it's an act of war. Russia goes into another country uninvited, and they're "standing their ground"? Double standard much?

reply to post by NavyDoc


Looks like you are quoting me in that post ? I did not write that big post so maybe you edited out the wrong tags or something.

The USA also made an agreement to protect Japan just weeks after dropping nukes on them so you see it's just a way for the USA to virtual own anyone it wants and who says Russia does not have agreements with the Ukraine to defend them because I read that they do.

if you was Putin and saw first the lies and then the mess they made in Libya and knew that the EU had broken an agreement not to put missiles in Poland then would you stand back and let the USA use force to remove an elected leader just to wait for the wall of missiles to be moved even closer ?

A line has been crossed and not only can I not see Putin backing down but I hope he gives the USA and chums a good old kicking.

Zaphod58

That would be the first invasion in history where no one got killed (well maybe one during voting) and I don't how you can use the term double standards when trying to defend the USA, that's daft

Lots of cat and mouse for years.

But there was this one incident where a US U2 spy plane was shot down in Russian air space complete with pilot G. Powers.

I think the US blowing up Russia over it would have been a bit extreme. Same from the Russian side.

reply to post by roadgravel


There were a LOT of incidents where US and allied aircraft were shot down by Soviet planes. Including a US RC-130 with 24 crew members in the back. They also shot down two Korean Airlines flights. One 707 that most of the people on board survived, and KAL 007.

The incidents prior to the Korean Airlines flights are what led to the treaty signed in 1972.

VirusGuard
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Looks like you are quoting me in that post ? I did not write that big post so maybe you edited out the wrong tags or something.

The USA also made an agreement to protect Japan just weeks after dropping nukes on them so you see it's just a way for the USA to virtual own anyone it wants and who says Russia does not have agreements with the Ukraine to defend them because I read that they do.

if you was Putin and saw first the lies and then the mess they made in Libya and knew that the EU had broken an agreement not to put missiles in Poland then would you stand back and let the USA use force to remove an elected leader just to wait for the wall of missiles to be moved even closer ?

A line has been crossed and not only can I not see Putin backing down but I hope he gives the USA and chums a good old kicking.

Zaphod58

That would be the first invasion in history where no one got killed (well maybe one during voting) and I don't how you can use the term double standards when trying to defend the USA, that's daft

edit on 17-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: Mid left little toe slipped

I don't know what to tell you. Treaties are written and nations are expected to stand by their promises. To get Ukraine to disarm, Russia promised no aggression against the Ukraine and would respect her sovereignty. US pledged support.

We made a deal to divest Ukraine of her nukes. I would think that you would agree that a deal to reduce nuclear proliferation a good thing, yes? We and Russia need to stand by our promise. Do you think that Ukraine would have given up their nukes--a great defensive deterrent--if they knew everyone would back out of the deal?

VirusGuard
Zaphod58

That would be the first invasion in history where no one got killed (well maybe one during voting) and I don't how you can use the term double standards when trying to defend the USA, that's daft

edit on 17-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: Mid left little toe slipped

Because I'm using it to describe you. According to you, the US going into another country uninvited is Evil, and the US needs to go away. But when Russia does the exact same thing, they're standing up to the US, and it's a Good Thing. Even when they order Jews to register you seem to be just fine with it.

reply to post by rickynews


Obama Warns Putin of Consequences.

Story link here: www.foxnews.com...

reply to post by Zaphod58

The Russians have downed a few over belief in spying within their air space. Can't say that for the US and Iran Air 655.

Bottom line, same sh*t, new day. Many people will take any excuse to see who can shove the hardest.

reply to post by roadgravel


Iran Air 655 is one of the only ones that the US shot down. Between 1949 and 1960 there were approximately 29 US aircraft attacked by Soviet fighters. At least one allied aircraft was shot down as well.

reply to post by Zaphod58

Just saying countries can do some things that didn't need to be done. Everyone doesn't use the same tactics.

I find it irrational that people will say the proper thing to do in this case is just to shot down the plane. I suppose too many people today think the world is just a giant video game.

roadgravel
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Just saying countries can do some things that didn't need to be done. Everyone doesn't use the same tactics.

I find it irrational that people will say the proper thing to do in this case is just to shot down the plane. I suppose too many people today think the world is just a giant video game.

I think it is just from lack of understanding of history. Stuff like this was very common during the cold war and planes very rarely got shot down. The name of one team may have been changed slightly, but the players and the game remain the same.

reply to post by roadgravel


Just look at all the people that talk about nuking anyone that doesn't agree with them. People growing up after the Cold War have no idea what things were like, and how we grew up with that over our heads. After Desert Storm people started seeing PGMs as video game weapons.