US-EU relations are near a tipping point...

This isn't exactly a news thread, but the topic in question I coined when I noticed a recent development in the rising tensions between the EU, led by Germany and France, and the US...

diginomica.com...

Two days old, I am aware, but bear with me...

And so it begins. The US government – via the auspices of the Office of the US Trade Representative – has fired a warning shot over the heads of the Eurocrats in Brussels who want to build a ‘European internet’, a taster of what could rapidly descend into an international trade war if not checked.

[Schengen refers to a European treaty that allows for visa-free freedom of movement within the EU, but which [theoretically] strictly controls entry to the European continental region to outsiders. Most EU nations are signatories to the Schengen Treaty with the notable exceptions of the UK and Ireland, both of which have expressed concerns about the impact on immigration.]

But the idea of a ‘Euro-internet’ has been re-ignited over the past 12 months with the NSA spying scandal used as justification to push the concept harder than before.

The governments of France and Germany are particularly enthusiastic, the latter backed up with support from its national telco champion Deutsche Telekom AG (DTAG), which actually wants to go one further and set up a German-only internet.

(The French are still miffed about the rest of the world’s indifference to Le Minitel, so aren’t perhaps likely to be terribly keen on that idea.)

German Chancellor Angela Merkel – whose cell phone was famously hacked by the NSA, much to her headline-grabbing highly public indignation – said prior to a meeting with French President Francois Hollande:

“We’ll talk about European providers that offer security for our citizens, so that one shouldn’t have to send emails and other information across the Atlantic. Rather, one could build up a communication network inside Europe.”

The U.S. are not too happy about it either;

But this idea has been shot down in flames by the US Trade Representative in its latest annual report where it states:

Recent proposals from countries within the European Union to create a Europe-only electronic network (dubbed a ‘Schengen cloud’ by advocates) or to create national-only electronic networks could potentially lead to effective exclusion or discrimination against foreign service suppliers that are directly offering network services, or dependent on them.

The USTR report makes clear that the US government regards the ‘Schengen cloud’ argument as a front for naked protectionism by the EU:

"The United States and the EU share common interests in protecting their citizens’ privacy, but the draconian approach proposed by DTAG and others appears to be a means of providing protectionist advantage to EU-based ICT suppliers.

Given the breath of legitimate services that rely on geographically-dispersed data processing and storage, a requirement to route all traffic involving EU consumers within Europe, would decrease efficiency and stifle innovation. For example, a supplier may transmit, store, and process its data outside the EU more efficiently, depending on the location of its data centers.

An innovative supplier from outside of Europe may refrain from offering its services in the EU because it may find EU-based storage and processing requirements infeasible for nascent services launched from outside of Europe.

Furthermore, any mandatory intra-EU routing may raise questions with respect to compliance with the EU’s trade obligations with respect to Internet-enabled services. Accordingly, USTR will be carefully monitoring the development of any such proposals."

What adds a particular frisson to this latest tension is that the US and the EU are currently mid-negotiation over a trade treaty to give mmultinational organisations more rights to sue national governments over claimed breaches of trade rules. Questions about a European firewall aren’t likely to encourage co-operation much.

Meanwhile there are voices within the European Commission, such as Viviane Reding, the European Commissioner for Justice, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship, openly calling for the scrapping of the Safe Harbor agreement which was put in place to enable data sharing with US-based companies.

With Reding and her colleagues also using NSA as an excuse to push for a pan-European Cloud Computing strategy and tougher data protection laws in the US, there are certain parties in the European Commission who have much to be grateful to Edward Snowden for.

But whether their political zealotry is matched by an awareness of the potential international trade ramificiations remains sadly unclear.

www.dw.de...

What say you ATS about this developing situation? Could develop into an all-out Cyber and Economic War, not that it would result in WWIII, but with Russian business heavily intertwined into Europe's infrastructure, it isn't hard to see how money, being every leader's first language, would spark a serious backlash backfire back on the United States, UK and other stooge countries of theirs.

reply to post by Davian

not that it would result in WWIII

Then why did you post this in the WW3 forum? I do not believe the EU is wanting, nor prepared to get into any kind of pissing match with the US at this time.

reply to post by Davian


I think the Euro Heads like Merkel etc are quite right to be in a position of sheer caution about 'every bit of electronic information being sent via another country outside the EU. Undoubtedly by the USA's scanning companies/institutions they have been able to spy on European competitors via their emails as well as Heads of State and all the various Institutions, without even going into the professional hackers also employed and their abilities. The USA stepped on a stone I suspect it wishes had never been turned over and exposed. Trust once lost between friendly alliances damages easily when spying gets involved.

As a member of the public with no secrets that I am worried about though, my perspective is purely that I want the best internet service and without some Institute of 'For the Better Good or religious monstrosity deciding whats good for the 'plebs' to access. (I don't care about porn or paedophilic websites being destroyed TPTB can remove those happily). I do notice that the draconian measures that some pious popies like to impose through the law on the public are coming in though slyly and I want a halt to any idea of going backwards regarding freedom of speech.

reply to post by Davian

It isn't too clear that a Euro internet wouldn't be as accessible to the NSA as the WWW appears to be already. On top of that, UK Intelligence are historically 'in-bed' with US Intelligence which would expose the Euro internet to increased risk of data-mining again.

Ideally, it'd be a great opportunity for a competitive 'open internet' and yet would probably take 6 months to morph into the WWW as it would face the same pressures, eavesdroppers and risks.

reply to post by Shiloh7

That thought hadn't occurred to me so

Would a Euro internet include politicised garbage like the great Aussie firewall? Or David Cameron's idea for a family friendly internet with a whitelist chosen for us by unknown folk with private agendas??

reply to post by Davian

"The United States and the EU share common interests in protecting their citizens’ privacy [...]

???

Can we trust the US Government? No.

What is therefore the logical solution? Protection.

Is this is synonymous with WWIII? No (at least not from our side).

reply to post by Kandinsky

Kandinsky
Would a Euro internet include politicised garbage like the great Aussie firewall? Or David Cameron's idea for a family friendly internet with a whitelist chosen for us by unknown folk with private agendas??

From what I read about DTAG plans this is only about shielding hardware against US industrial espionage and mass surveillance. This is not about creating a separated web or altering the content on it... for now (I don't trust the EU either).

reply to post by ColCurious

Thanks for the clarification

I'm usually a thorough reader but skimmed and jumped to conclusions.

I don't trust the EU or the US government, but being a national body I definitely believe the US government should prepare to shield itself from possible retaliation ASAP. This could get ugly, and with the US and NATO threatening economic ties between the EU's economic heavyweights, Germany in particular, and Russia, stacking on top of that Edward Snowden, the whistleblower on the NSA scandal involving elements of the US Intelligence community spying on Merkel's and Holland's, among others, emails and other electronic devises (most likely rogue elements, in my opinion, who are beginning to stand against the globalist institutions of regional integrations, such as the EU and their allies), we're going to be seeing widespread civil unrest and scapegoating of the United States by TPTB in the near future I do believe. The hawks are going to be flying, and the EU will soon have an excuse to come out as a direct contender to the US and their allies such as Turkey, Israel, the UK, Canada, Australia and in some aspects after the shakingly devastating Crimea crisis, China. Relations between the UK and the EU will begin to deteriorate, and soon, they'll become an adversary much like modern-day China and Russia, financially, and possibly, militarily. It could be 10 years, it could be 20, but I feel the big one coming. Every World War on the face of the Earth (even the ones pre-1914) have involved some powerful western nation getting out of control and causing the dominoes to fall where they may, and it always required on prerequisite to escalate to the point of causing a global military crisis ...causing a (or several) western European nation(s) to seriously lose its (their) #. And this time it isn't the assassination of some Balkan Duke, but rather, the spying on of a German Chancellor and a French President. (May I remind you all the P5+1 include: US, UK, France, China, Russia + Germany, we've just managed to piss off THREE of them; France, Germany, and Russia. One more to go and the keg blows. Watch.)

Personally I think the EU, and Britain in particular should pull away from the u.s all together. Time for the another empire to fall and for a new one to rise from its ashes.

misscurious
Personally I think the EU, and Britain in particular should pull away from the u.s all together. Time for the another empire to fall and for a new one to rise from its ashes.

I think they're healthier together as they are right now tbh. There is nothing wrong with little disputes in which way each does business, a tantrum and a split isn't diplomatic and is counter productive to both economies

reply to post by Davian


I could care less about the NSA "spying" on non-U.S. citizens. It's a spy agency's job , hello?

Even Canada has started a spy agency a few years back. The list of countries that don't spy on other countries would be short indeed.

However, I see no reason for either the U.S. gov't or EU's to get into a pissing contest as "agents" for their respective corporations...that is a good way to start a feud. Economic or otherwise.

EU has every right to it's own internet service. Period.

I support EU on this one...my ancestors are spinning in their graves...LOL.

TritonTaranis

misscurious
Personally I think the EU, and Britain in particular should pull away from the u.s all together. Time for the another empire to fall and for a new one to rise from its ashes.

I think they're healthier together as they are right now tbh. There is nothing wrong with little disputes in which way each does business, a tantrum and a split isn't diplomatic and is counter productive to both economies

edit on 10-4-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

the Australian Empire. Bunch of To yobos chewing grass while wearing cowboy hat with small corks hanging down to keep Flys away.

Abavs

TritonTaranis

misscurious
Personally I think the EU, and Britain in particular should pull away from the u.s all together. Time for the another empire to fall and for a new one to rise from its ashes.

I think they're healthier together as they are right now tbh. There is nothing wrong with little disputes in which way each does business, a tantrum and a split isn't diplomatic and is counter productive to both economies

edit on 10-4-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

the Australian Empire. Bunch of country yobos chewing grass while wearing cowboy hat with small corks hanging down to keep Flys away.