Abortion is a gift from God

reply to post by SaturnFX


Okay....well have fun with all of that.

SaturnFX
Something I never could get past is the logic behind the anti-choice movement

If heaven is real
If babies auto-go to heaven
Then an abortion doctor is simply enabling a flawless entry into paradise without the potential corruption earth would give to the young soul...so, they are indeed doing gods work, right?

I mean, if the debate is all about deities and religion and stuff..then yes, lets use that to discuss the subject as you want.

Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

simple really
Now, once they are born, they start sinning and need to live long enough to redeem for their sins..murdering someone actually alive denies them their chance at salvation.

Anyhow, being honest here..answer the questions I posed with clear thought and not reactionary bile. Who knows, you may find something out about yourself in the process. (heh, and I got a bridge to sell ya)

You know what I find offensive? calling the people whom are pro-choice, pro-abortion. Nobody I met is cheerleading for the process, it is typically one of the hardest decision a woman has to make. Not some awesome fun thing to do for a Saturday.

--quick add for clarification-
I find the term pro-abortion to be intentionally offensive without being a proper term, I feel the same way about people on the other side of the fence using the term anti-choice. Both labels are improper use and are trying to get emotional responses moreso than reflect the actual position of the other side. (I am not above it. I have used the term anti-choice in debates(including this one, see the first line)..it is a touchy subject and people fly off into irrational and offensive tirades..although I later regret using the term as I know its disingenuous)

edit on 4-4-2014 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

Best points of the thread.

If you believe in heaven, and if heaven is better than Earth, WTF would you wanna have your child born here on Earth? They would go to be with god instantly and be in a place that does not have war, death, money or republicans.

If god and all is real, abortion would be more time with god and better than "life".

It is very valid IMO.

Trollsmustdie
I have a solution. When a mother to be wishes to abort life for what ever reason she also should be extinguished .

It's only fair.

Bit OTT mate.

Im anti Abortion.


But even I make exceptions for rape babies and serious life risking health issues. No point carrying through a pregnancy if both the mother and baby will likely end up dead anyway.

SaturnFX

Good idea. and when a politician wishes to destroy life through war, we should destroy that politician

Actually..that might not be a terrible idea...would certainly make diplomacy a bit more effective.

Id prefer the old way.

If a King ect started a war he and his children would be expected if in good health to go fight right at the very front line with his men.

Im sure if politicians and there children were expected to go to the front lines of any war they start im sure we would see a lot less wars

ketsuko

SaturnFX

FriedBabelBroccoli

SaturnFX
Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

Okay . . . is this how you view your own children?

I think your answer to that is really the answer to your questions in this thread.

-FBB

edit on 5-4-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

No
I am not religious. Life is precious because its life, not because God made it..but because it exists.

Oh, I see. So why do you support abortion? Life is precious because it's life ... but you're fine with any woman just deep-sixing it because it's inconvenient?

I find your questions a poor attempt to trap a person.

Babies go where they go, but God is the one who decides when we should go. It's not our place to decide that. I'm not fine with a woman deciding to have an abortion because the baby is merely inconvenient because that's not her choice to make. If having a child was or would be inconvenient ... maybe she shouldn't have been having sex? That would have prevented the whole issue to begin with, and as the wife of one adopted son and the aunt of two adopted nephews, there are other ways of dealing with an inconvenient pregnancy than to punish the child by "sending it to Heaven" for your indiscretion. Abortion is not and never should be considered birth control.

We can talk about other situations where the mother's life is in danger or instances of rape, but those are very tiny cases against the much larger percentage of cases where someone was indiscreet in her behavior. Even if you're on birth control, you still shouldn't be having sex unless you are prepared to deal with the reality that you may get pregnant.

God is acting through everyone all time, this includes abortion doctors as god is also the father of abortion doctors.

reply to post by crazyewok


I 100% agree with both of your above statements.

Finally...You cuddly..

spurgeonatorsrevenge

ketsuko

SaturnFX

FriedBabelBroccoli

SaturnFX
Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

Okay . . . is this how you view your own children?

I think your answer to that is really the answer to your questions in this thread.

-FBB

edit on 5-4-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

No
I am not religious. Life is precious because its life, not because God made it..but because it exists.

Oh, I see. So why do you support abortion? Life is precious because it's life ... but you're fine with any woman just deep-sixing it because it's inconvenient?

I find your questions a poor attempt to trap a person.

Babies go where they go, but God is the one who decides when we should go. It's not our place to decide that. I'm not fine with a woman deciding to have an abortion because the baby is merely inconvenient because that's not her choice to make. If having a child was or would be inconvenient ... maybe she shouldn't have been having sex? That would have prevented the whole issue to begin with, and as the wife of one adopted son and the aunt of two adopted nephews, there are other ways of dealing with an inconvenient pregnancy than to punish the child by "sending it to Heaven" for your indiscretion. Abortion is not and never should be considered birth control.

We can talk about other situations where the mother's life is in danger or instances of rape, but those are very tiny cases against the much larger percentage of cases where someone was indiscreet in her behavior. Even if you're on birth control, you still shouldn't be having sex unless you are prepared to deal with the reality that you may get pregnant.

God is acting through everyone all time, this includes abortion doctors as god is also the father of abortion doctors.

That...is one of the worst excuses I have ever read. And given the site I'm on, that's saying something. It could be used to validate literally any travesty you care to name. Was God doing us a favor on 9/11, too? Or in Boston, Aurora, or Newtown?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Exactly. If death were a gift from God then why is suicide a sin. After all there is days when I could just check out of this bi#.

TiedDestructor
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Exactly. If death were a gift from God then why is suicide a sin. After all there is days when I could just check out of this bi#.

Not what I said. Death is a gift, but are you really going to give a book to a blind kid? There's a time and a place. Oh, and suicide is a sin because no one has that kind of authority over your life except God. Taking your own life is basically like spitting in his face. Personally, I don't see suicide that way, but it's still a damn shame to see it happen. Anyway, my stance on abortion is simple: if you don't want a kid, then stay on the pill and remember the rubbers. A few extra bucks now will save you a hundred later.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Well your stance is spot on IMO.

thesaneone
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I don't think the topic is about abortion being right or wrong, but how disgusting that people are by celebrating abortions.

Like you had said its a hard choice to make and it should never be celebrated.

I am late to this topic, but it seems to me some people are doing just that, turning abortion into a cult of sorts.

crazyewok

SaturnFX

Good idea. and when a politician wishes to destroy life through war, we should destroy that politician

Actually..that might not be a terrible idea...would certainly make diplomacy a bit more effective.

Id prefer the old way.

If a King ect started a war he and his children would be expected if in good health to go fight right at the very front line with his men.

Im sure if politicians and there children were expected to go to the front lines of any war they start im sure we would see a lot less wars

edit on 5-4-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Now THAT would be awesome. Because sadly, there are times when war is necessary...and if it was necessary, then a politician may indeed choose to go fighting with the men and women. Would also give a purity of cause also...and who knows, said politician may come back and be more popular than ever.

I'm not religious, I'm pro-choice - obviously.

Religious folks like to make out that the people who get abortions are just stupid or lazy and couldn't be bothered to use contraception and just swan along to the clinic and then go out for food afterwards or something.
For anyone who has an abortion, it's a traumatic experience and not one that's taken lightly...I would imagine it stays with the woman for life and can be something that is really, really life changing.

In the very, very few cases where people do just say "oh **** it, I'll just have an abortion" well that to me is a little sick and I have no repsect for people like that, Abortion should be absolutely the last option and only when really necessary, not as some lazy birth control.

BUT

As that is so rare anyway, it's not really the issue.

It is a choice to have an abortion, not an easy one but a choice all the same.


What does the Bible say on Judging people? All of you abortion haters and abortion protesters and picketers, you're probably going to hell.

SaturnFX

beezzer
What's your question?

please be blunt.

I despise obtuseness.

Are babies sent to hell? yes or no
Is heaven a better place than earth? yes or no

The third question of course then is...so, whats the issue?

no I dont believe babies go to hell, I don't believe in hell, it is a misinterpretation.

There will be a new heaven and a new earth, earth will once again become paradise, no more death, disease, tears, wars, etc.

What is the issue?

althought I think you made a very good point philosophically regarding atheist should value a one and ony chance at life therefore be more anti abortion.

What's the issue?
A chance?

a chance to witnessing the universes, experience life, babies are known to dream and experience pain in the womb.

a chance to experience love, maybe it is something so simple.

I was thinking just the other day, I know some prochoice vegans, they don't eat eggs.

reply to post by blupblup


If you consider it is murder, then thou shalt not kill applies, and why are we the bad guys when we only want to save a life?

there are scriptures in the bible that consider the killing of the baby in the womb punishable by death, but you don't believe anyway so why use it.

also if someone kills a baby in they womb to this day it is considered murder,

Stormdancer777
reply to post by blupblup

 

If you consider it is murder, then thou shalt not kill applies, and why are we the bad guys when we only want to save a life?

there are scriptures in the bible that consider the killing of the baby in the womb punishable by death, but you don't believe anyway so why use it.

also if someone kills a baby in they womb to this day it is considered murder,

I didn't say anyone was a bad guy? But judging is clearly forbidden and God does not like judging.
So why not leave it up to God to decide?

There are Bible quotes on Abortion? Can you post them, cheers.


They have a limit as far as I'm aware, there is a cut off point.... It's not quite China where they're sticking babies as they come out of the womb are they?

As I said, it's never an easy choice and I can see both sides of it.
But it's not my choice to make... so I am pro choice, people need to have the option and very, very few do it because "they can't be bothered" to have a baby... It's usually much more complicated than that


Anyway... this isn't my fight, merely reminding those people doing the judging that you are also sinning and will be judged.

After clicking on the link to the artisit's website and seeing banners that say "Good women have abortions" something tells me that, at least in some pieces, she might just be flipping anti-abortion slogans and that this is one of them.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Is there a place we wait for life, are we aware in that place before conception?

Is the breath of life, the spirit, are we that living breathing spirit?

WHo am I to deny another a chance to breath, if in the grave there is nothing,

I'm not judging or condemning anyone, but I think four billion deaths is beyond comprehension.

reply to post by beezzer


In my view, and respectfully God punishes the pro death crowd by diminishing their numbers with each infanticide that they commit. For there is little doubt that if that child had lived and grew up under the tutelage of their pro death mom the child would further the pro death agenda.

whywhynot
reply to post by beezzer

 

In my view, and respectfully God punishes the pro death crowd by diminishing their numbers with each infanticide that they commit. For there is little doubt that if that child had lived and grew up under the tutelage of their pro death mom the child would further the pro death agenda.

Well, being pro-CHOICE, I personally have chosen not to have an abortion. I have a daughter, who under my tutelage, will hopefully be pro-choice as well. So you're likely to be disappointed if you think we are going to die out.

I always thought of the people who are for the death penalty as being pro-death, as are those who are willing to shoot and kill people who break into their homes.